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Am I missing a combo or trick here?
They seem too expensive compared to my Noise Marine close combat squads..

I picked up a box of "Favored of Chaos" when Traitors came out,
but now don't see how to use them

Any advice on using them?
Wait for the codex?

Yeah unfortunately they seem pretty terrible right now. They die pretty easy to anti infantry fire, the random number of attacks seems disappointing, and their attacks are only decent. I see them as a direct competition to khorne berserkers since they only do assault, and they just don't match up at all.

Maybe the codex will make them better, or you can always use the bits and mutations in other units, lol.

I'm not convinced that they are terrible statwise, just that they are overcosted. Better than last edition, but still not good. With GW adjusting point values as they go, maybe they'll fix Possessed and make them worth taking.

Well over costed and terrible statwise usually end up being the same thing. Making them better or cheaper would at least make them usable.

The combo I am looking for to make them work - since I love converting regular CSM or even Primaris into Possesed - is to buff them with Heralds. Possesed have the DAEMON keyword so, combined with the free mark of chaos of your choice, can be afftected by the +1S.

I want to run a unit of 10 in my Tzeentch army close to the Changeling (-1 to be hit) and one of the Heralds on disc. That would mean 1D3 attacks of S6 AP-2 that can also be enhanced by Boon of Change (+1S, +1T or +1 Attack). Make them advance every single turn to match the Herald's speed until they find something to grab with their tentacles.

I am pretty sure there are more combo opportunities out there (Be'Lakor?) but would also appreciate a point cost reduction when the Codex is out.

Yeah, Heralds was what I was thinking as well, but they're still expensive T4 1W models with only a 3+/5++. If Death Guard gave them Disgustingly Resilient they would actually be pretty decent. Same if they got some benefit for being in the other cult legions. Maybe when the codex drops they'll throw Possessed a bone. I hope they do because I've got 3 squads of them that I'd like to actually be able to use.

Heralds won't matter with them most of the time, there already strength 5 so they wound marines on a 3+ already.

The sad thing is most of the hybrid mortal/daemon chaos units are bad not just possessed.
Mutilators (even worse than Possesed because the 3 man unit cap and low number of attacks)
Oblitirators (nerffed into the ground, inconsistent firepower and no more power fist)
warp talons (Decent since they got lowered in cost but there nothing to write home about)

Like compare a custodian guard to a mutilator both are 3 wound 2/5++ units, but the custodians can be upgraded to have a 2/3++ save and come in larger squads.

Mutilator: 65pts for 3 str 5+d3, ap d3, damage d3 attacks
Custodian guard: 52/54pts for 3/4 str5/6, ap-3, damage d3 attacks.

Why are the custodians 11 - 13 pts cheaper when they have higher toughness and weapon skill, better weapons, can actually shot, and come in larger squad sizes ?

It really makes me sad because in the novels possessed are forces to be wrecked with on the battlefield.

Possesed are getting an Extra Wound with no cost in the new Codex. I was a believer before but now they are going to become the core of my army.

 Rydria wrote:
Heralds won't matter with them most of the time, there already strength 5 so they wound marines on a 3+ already.

Based on what I've listened in the Frontline Gaming Tactics Podcast, most of the competitive players are bringing stuff with S4 and S6. Sure S5 wound marines on a 3+, but guards and their equivalents on 2+ and T6 units on 4+. Getting stuck in S5 is the real problem imho.

Yay, that's good to hear. Finally I have a reason (except for looks) to field Possessed in my World Eaters.

With +1 wound they're no longer "Berzerkers but worse"...

Is it already in the codex that they are +1W? For some reason I don't see it anywhere :(

Is this some sort of magic FAQ that I have to point to the community post? :/

It is on the Warhammer Community post about the Emperor's Children: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/31/legion-focus-emperors-children/

"Possessed are one of the most improved units in the new codex, gaining an extra Wound at no increase in points cost."

It's been mostly argued that the extra wound is what's needed, so I'm pretty happy about that.

I think the problem with possessed (and with a lot of the chaos stuff really) is that they're designed to be buffed by daemon shenanigans. It's difficult to cost a unit that by itself isn't that great but when buffed by one of a number of aura's and abilities can be pretty damn good, if you build for those synergies. If you don't build for them then the unit looks lacklustre and under-performs. But what GW is then doing is saying that to get the most out of all these units, you have to play a unified chaos list, with marines + daemons. But if you don't and you play possessed for their style and not for the stacking buffs then you're getting short-changed.

This could be rectified in a cumbersome way by reducing possessed points cost but including an extra rule that increases their cost if your army includes a Herald or other buffing daemon unit. The value of those buffs is built into the daemon list and these things are costed against what daemons can do, but the same balancing doesn't carry over into marine units that can receive buffs not normally open to CSM;s. Possessed (and some of the daemon engine units) are effectively breaking the faction divide by having access to non-faction buffs. It'd be like Ultra-Smurfs being able to grant their chapter tactic or stratagems to certain AM units, it'd break the balance in AM. So for chaos they upped the price of Possessed to compensate for this, but not everyone wants to run Tzeentch daemons to buff the crap out of daemon infantry. So for those that don't do this, Possessed underperform. And for those that do, they swear by them.

Really a unit should be viable of it's own accord first and foremost. Any synergy it receives from elsewhere should be a bonus. And where balance becomes a concern a units points cost should have a movable scale - say 18pts per Possessed, *add 4pts per model if your army includes a daemon Herald etc.

Obliterators and Mutilators are just poor right now. I don't mind Oblits losing the PF, they previously invalidated the very existence of Mutilators because of it and they're meant to be all about shooting anyway. The problem with both units is the small unit size, the low number of attacks/shots and their cost. They cost way too much for what they can bring, which is average levels of CC and shooting. I think the new mechanic of weapon stats fits better than the old choose -your-weapon-sir method. I always thought that constantly morphing and re-morphing weapons was dumb, I much prefer them being taped into raw warp energy and using their bodies as living weapons of raw energy, instead of just growing a plasmacannon, then a lascannon, then a plasmacannon again. But there's just a little too much unreliability in the randomness. Essentially if you roll any 1's then your unit is underperforming big time for the points sink. I think both of them need to add 1+d3 to their tables for all (or at least some) of their stats. rolls of 1 should still be pretty decent, with 3 meaning you're operating in the top tier. As the units stand though, you need 2's or 3's across the board to be decent, and you're still paying too many point, and don't have enough attacks to justify them.

And I don't understand why they're not T5. They have S5, why not T too? It's quite obvious (based on how similar they are) that Centurions were brought in to be the loyalist equivalent of oblits/muties, they even serve similar jobs in the armies. Just make them T5 and be done with it. They're already extra bulky so we know they're bigger and heavier than terminators. They should be able to walk into hails of small-arms fire and just shrug it off like it's nothing.

Obliterators and Mutilators need S6, 1 more attack, and Fleshmetal guns need to be Assault 4. It's a relatively easy fix.

Not sure this +1 wound will fix anything. They're still pretty overpriced for the mediocre damage output they possess.

 koooaei wrote:
Not sure this +1 wound will fix anything. They're still pretty overpriced for the mediocre damage output they possess.

8pts over a regular chaos marine to trade in your bolter for +1str, +1 wound, a 5+ invulnerable and a d3 attacks ap2 weapon seems very reasonable.

Well, if I really wanted to get a close combat unit as a CSM player, I think I would much rather prefer Khorne Berserkers. So, what's their niche?

They are for all CSM armies that can't take Khorne Berserkers . I wouldn't be surprised if NL, IW and AL lost marked units(they did in Traitor Legions), DG can't use them as well.

 Rydria wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Not sure this +1 wound will fix anything. They're still pretty overpriced for the mediocre damage output they possess.

8pts over a regular chaos marine to trade in your bolter for +1str, +1 wound, a 5+ invulnerable and a d3 attacks ap2 weapon seems very reasonable.

CSM aren't a stellar unit either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean possessed could be decent with 3 attacks base. But d3 is just...well, let's say you have 1/3 chance to get an expected damage output of 1.5 meq from a squad of 5 possessed. I don't know, maybe codexes will buff them in one way or another. But currently 2w 3+ armored relatively expensive infantry is nothing to write home about. There are so many multi-damage weapons out there. Just look at how primaris marines perform. And possessed are basically cc-oriented primaris marines.

They are passable with 2 wounds but they just lack the punch to be a good unit.

Have a nurgle deamon herald with them and not only do they get +1s but you can put the pyshic power (not got my book with me for name)that gives them +1 to hit and hit rolls of 7+ cause do double damage. They can be made pretty nasty with buffs and lets be honest our entire army needs buffs

 koooaei wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Not sure this +1 wound will fix anything. They're still pretty overpriced for the mediocre damage output they possess.

8pts over a regular chaos marine to trade in your bolter for +1str, +1 wound, a 5+ invulnerable and a d3 attacks ap2 weapon seems very reasonable.

CSM aren't a stellar unit either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean possessed could be decent with 3 attacks base. But d3 is just...well, let's say you have 1/3 chance to get an expected damage output of 1.5 meq from a squad of 5 possessed. I don't know, maybe codexes will buff them in one way or another. But currently 2w 3+ armored relatively expensive infantry is nothing to write home about. There are so many multi-damage weapons out there. Just look at how primaris marines perform. And possessed are basically cc-oriented primaris marines.

They are passable with 2 wounds but they just lack the punch to be a good unit.

They don't need punch like you're saying.

This helps make them a tarpit unit.

Tarpit unit that doesn't prevent fallbacks. Why not 2xCSM than. The expected durability of csm is higher point per point cause they don't care about d2 weapons and they're troops. Damage output is about the same with csm being able to at least shoot and throw a nade.

 koooaei wrote:
Tarpit unit that doesn't prevent fallbacks. Why not 2xCSM than. The expected durability of csm is higher point per point cause they don't care about d2 weapons and they're troops. Damage output is about the same with csm being able to at least shoot and throw a nade.

I already bring 2 CSM units in my list. Possesed - as someone stated in the Chaos thread - are a specific CC unit for those who don't want (or can't because of Legion rules) bring Berserkers to their armies. The extra wound and all the potential buffs with Daemons makes them more than viable.

I plan to test my 10 possesed unit without a transport for the moment. Hope my opponents don't see a great threat on them and focus on other units so they can advance until they get to combat. If that doesn't work I'll then try a Rhino.

And now with zerkers bringing 10 (15 with strategem) s5+ attacks per model for cheaper, possessed are even more redundand.

 koooaei wrote:
And now with zerkers bringing 10 (15 with strategem) s5+ attacks per model for cheaper, possessed are even more redundand.

World Eater Zerkers bring 3 S6 chainaxe attacks and 1 S5chainsword attack per fight phase, so yes World Eaters don't ever need Possessed ever. But if you aren't playing World Eaters and don't want Berzerkers, Possessed are still there for you as a potential sidegrade.

Well, they might get something for word bearers

Yeah, don't take me wrong, I absolutely love Berserkers and World Eaters could perfectly be my next army - especially since I suspect they are getting a new box soon. But I'm going mono-Tzeentch and the purpose of this thread is to find a place for Possessed.

They make no sense in a Khorne list (I suspect neither they do on a Slaanesh one) but for Tzeentch, Nurgle or Undivided armies they could work quite well.

 ochobits wrote:
Yeah, don't take me wrong, I absolutely love Berserkers and World Eaters could perfectly be my next army - especially since I suspect they are getting a new box soon. But I'm going mono-Tzeentch and the purpose of this thread is to find a place for Possessed.

They make no sense in a Khorne list (I suspect neither they do on a Slaanesh one) but for Tzeentch, Nurgle or Undivided armies they could work quite well.

I'm running mono-Slaanesh...
and was hoping to put them in as they look great,

Interested why you think they won't fit,
Is there a better choppier unit I'm missing?

I've got the MaulerFiend that has been doing pretty well
and plan to make some HTH Brutes

Im interested in your take on them

Just think of Possessed as the Daemons of Chaos Space Marine players.

They're comparable to Flesh Hounds.

Possessed 7" vs 10" Flesh Hounds, the hounds are faster
S5 vs S4 - Possessed seem strong but the Flesh Hounds also get +1 attacks and +1 Strength on the charge turn, Possessed are better for extended fights
1d3 Attacks vs 2 Attacks - averaged it's even but on the charge turns the Hounds are better with 3 attacks always
-2 AP vs -1 AP - Possessed have better AP
3+ vs 6+ - Possessed have much better armor saves even though both units have 5++ invulns
22 pts vs 20 pts - Similar cost

Special abilities the Possessed have Death to the False Emperor while the Hounds have the psyker denying Collar of Khorne.

So aside from Hounds being more rushy and Possessed being more tanky/long fight based with better AP, the keywords also differentiate them. Possessed as Infantry can benefit from various Infantry-only auras and they can take Legion keywords to fit into your army detachments for Tactics benefits, which again being Infantry they benefit from (like that +1 attack from World Eaters). Both units count as Khorne Daemons too so any buffs for those can be applied to either but only Possessed count as Heretic Astartes for the purpose of Psyker powers from the Dark Hereticus discipline AND the new CSM Stratagems.

Seems worth taking if you like Hounds already and fits much better into the bonuses your CSM legion can provide.

 NOLA Chris wrote:


I'm running mono-Slaanesh...
and was hoping to put them in as they look great,

Interested why you think they won't fit,
Is there a better choppier unit I'm missing?

I've got the MaulerFiend that has been doing pretty well
and plan to make some HTH Brutes

Im interested in your take on them

I am not a huge expert so please don't take my word for granted

I suspect there are better CC Slaanesh units, especially if you want to attack first in combat. Slaanesh Daemons seem pretty good on that end if you want to go that route, but if you feel Possessed can fit your army - and especially if you love the models - go for it.

The best thing about Possessed is that they can benefit from both Heretic Astartes and Daemon disciplines, so maybe you find the combo that fits your playstyle better.