Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys

I am building my first 40k army and I decided to go for a Primaris-only Space Marines force. I am undecided on which chapter to go. On one side, I prefer Ultramarines colour scheme and the fact you can play with his Primarch, while I like the fact that the Salamanders are really nice guys.
I am not a strongly competitive player, but I would like to go to some tournaments in the future. Which chapter (tactics, stratagems, traits and relics) do you think can be more powerful when playing with primaris-only lists?
I'm not into successor chapters...

Thanks for your input!

I think you'll struggle with a pure force even with price tweaks your still going to have a really low model count.

Ravenguard is strong but i'm not sure it's the best for numarines, maybe impfists.

while I like the fact that the Salamanders are really nice guys.

Haha this is why I don't like the Salamanders, good guys are boring!

I think they are the one to go for though, as you will have a small number of models and therefore be rolling a small number of dice.
The rerolls will be really effective at ensuring you don't fluff too many key rolls, especially if you take MSU.

 Kroem wrote:

while I like the fact that the Salamanders are really nice guys.

Haha this is why I don't like the Salamanders, good guys are boring!

I think they are the one to go for though, as you will have a small number of models and therefore be rolling a small number of dice.
The rerolls will be really effective at ensuring you don't fluff too many key rolls, especially if you take MSU.

One wonders if a salamander player will ever take a full infantry squad again.

The Salamanders' Chapter Tactic is not quite as good for Primaris marines as it is for others, though it's probably still the best all-around buff. Because you don't have heavy or special weapons you don't have anything to prioritize for re-rolls. Their stratagem is really solid if you're using Aggressors with flamers, but otherwise you wouldn't get much out of it.

The Ultramarines' Tactic is at least likely to be useful in most games, but again it seems to synergize best with non-Primaris Marines. Shooty dreads are most vulnerable to getting tied up in CC, but the Primaris dread always has a power fist and so isn't quite as scared of CC as other dreads tend to be. Intercessors don't benefit that much from falling back instead of simply fighting. Inceptors Fly. Aggressors are very hard to charge in the first place because they get tons of overwatch and can even have flamers. Ultramarines do have an incredible Warlord Trait, which works out to giving you 50% more CP.

I'd be pretty tempted to take the Iron Hands' Tactic with a Primaris force. 6+ FNP means you have a 31% chance of surviving a two-damage wound, which is the main weakness of Primaris marines. This works out to be just as good as the Raven Guard's Tactic against a volley of BS3+ two-damage shots, and it also works inside 12" and in CC.

The IH CT seems more useful on primaris models with their 2 wounds than on regular marines. The UM CT seems like a good choice but you need to consider that against many armies it won't mean much. Fighting Orks or something? Great. Fighting a marine/IG/Tau gunline? It will rarely make a difference. Aside from IH, I agree that the Salamanders CT would be a nice one as well.

Green is gold brother.
But UM tactics might suit a shooty msu army better.

Kroem wrote:

while I like the fact that the Salamanders are really nice guys.

Haha this is why I don't like the Salamanders, good guys are boring!

I think they are the one to go for though, as you will have a small number of models and therefore be rolling a small number of dice.
The rerolls will be really effective at ensuring you don't fluff too many key rolls, especially if you take MSU.

Fair enough . I can´t avoid liking the good guys in fantasy/sci-fi histories lol

Dionysodorus wrote:The Salamanders' Chapter Tactic is not quite as good for Primaris marines as it is for others, though it's probably still the best all-around buff. Because you don't have heavy or special weapons you don't have anything to prioritize for re-rolls. Their stratagem is really solid if you're using Aggressors with flamers, but otherwise you wouldn't get much out of it.

The Ultramarines' Tactic is at least likely to be useful in most games, but again it seems to synergize best with non-Primaris Marines. Shooty dreads are most vulnerable to getting tied up in CC, but the Primaris dread always has a power fist and so isn't quite as scared of CC as other dreads tend to be. Intercessors don't benefit that much from falling back instead of simply fighting. Inceptors Fly. Aggressors are very hard to charge in the first place because they get tons of overwatch and can even have flamers. Ultramarines do have an incredible Warlord Trait, which works out to giving you 50% more CP.

I'd be pretty tempted to take the Iron Hands' Tactic with a Primaris force. 6+ FNP means you have a 31% chance of surviving a two-damage wound, which is the main weakness of Primaris marines. This works out to be just as good as the Raven Guard's Tactic against a volley of BS3+ two-damage shots, and it also works inside 12" and in CC.

Thanks everyone for your input, really useful! Now that I think of, the IH seems really good on multi-wound infantry. Unfortunately I don´t like their fluff that much (I'm not a good painter so black schemes...). If this CT is really that strong I may consider a successor chapter...

Apart from the UM falling back+shoot perk I thought the +1 to leadership would be good for primaris.
Do you think being able to have Roboute Guilliman on an UM army may outweighs their weaker CT?

On a side note, what is the best way to have transfer sheets/decals for the other 1st founding chapters? I don't like that there are only transfer sheets for ultramarines in the new primaris boxes

Thanks again guys, still undecided but more informed

Of those two UM, primaris don't benefit as much from salamanders because almost all of their fire is high volume homogenous bolt weapons. Being able to fall back and shoot is great.

On the other hand imperial fist might actually work pretty well, after looking it over I think I'm going to use IF for my all primaris army instead of iron hands as I'd planned
In a regular army not so much, but bolter drill efffects intercession, interceptors, rievers, and aggressors.

Raven Guard. With the firepower of hellblasters and the range of intercessors, you can take full advantage of the protection. Any enemy that tries to get within 12" can be hit by interceptors and reivers.

Depends on what the best units are in primaris, and what sort of options they end up with.

Ravenguard runs the issue of the majority of units we've seen being focused on close range shooting. Sure they have 30" bolters and plasma guns, but you really need those in RF range to make the most of them. Then we have the 18" assault heavy bolters, the short range glove bolters on the terminator/centurion thing, and pistol/knife combo guys. The stratagem might be invaluable however, given they don't seem to have many cheap transport options.

Ultramarines isn't bad, but most of these units are rocking two or more attacks and pistols. They aren't really afraid of getting into melee.

IF is... not an awful choice. They could use the extra firepower, both ignoring cover and boosting the many bolt weapons they use.

Salamander I'd pass on, a lot of firepower of the same type concentrated to a single unit isn't where I'd want to focus. IH doesn't work as well for MW models, as you'll be getting shot with multi damage weapons already. Black Templar is to melee focused, white scars is meh.

RG would be a great choice for primaris, stick those guys in cover and watch them soak surprising amounts of fire coming across the board. -1 to hit on models with a 2+ save and 2 wounds. Great!

IW tactics wouldn't be bad either, that 6+++ will keep them alive even longer.

IF is what I run but I've not tried them with the new tactics. The 30" range on their guns and the -1 AP would be great when ignoring cover bonuses.

It really depends which Primaris units you like the most?

Personally you cannot go wrong with Ultramarines as everything they have is good. Then the cherry on top is the Primarch giving re-rolls to hit and wound. There is even a Stratagem I think that allows this aura to be pushed out further. If you want to play a Primaris list with all the new units Ultramarines is the way to go. If you want to mix in regular SM units or want to spam a certain type of units then the other Chapters might prove more valuable i.e. White Scars and Bikers.

For general purpose I think salamanders. Their CT just works on everything all the time and while its synergy with primaris is not amazing, it still helps 100% of the time.

Raven Guard you can really build around with a beefy alpha strike list you can usually figure to go first.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
For general purpose I think salamanders. Their CT just works on everything all the time and while its synergy with primaris is not amazing, it still helps 100% of the time.

Raven Guard you can really build around with a beefy alpha strike list you can usually figure to go first.

The problem with Salamanders is that it doesn't work that well on high volume weapons that throw heaps of dice and on units that lack heavy weapons. Its great on those Heavy weapons with fewer shots where those re-rolls make a massive difference to the likely outcome. You are right that it works all the time which means it will make a difference. However if you take the Ultramarines Primarch with Re-roll to hit and wound that is going to be much more effective with high volume shooting that most of the Pimaris units appear to have. Also if you want to get the dedicated transports they will not benefit from the Salamanders tactic. Personally I like the Salamanders tactic more if you build and buy units to optimise it, however without doing that the Ultramarines just seem more impressive with their options. RG are the same, technically it might be a better tactic however in practice it looks like you really have to build around it which will mean many units wont make the cut.

But if you don't like taking ugly, unfluffy special characters like a primarch, that's not really going to help you much.

 Melissia wrote:
But if you don't like taking ugly, unfluffy special characters like a primarch, that's not really going to help you much.

Talk about a bad buzz....

Fluff is almost entirely up to the individual to decide if they like it or not. Rules and tactics have a material impact on the game which is what we are discussing. So I guess if you hate using a Primarch then that's a big incentive not to play Ultramarines, just like if you hate the Salamanders Fluff you probably won't play them either. Also no where has the OP said he does not like the idea of using him, in fact he even asked the question if his benefits outweigh the less powerful CT.

Moving on now

Hey, you're the one saying "everyone has to take guilliman omg!". Except... not everyone likes the guy. And frankly it's ridiculous to see two forces with guilliman on either side against each other. And I've seen that.

Paint them however you want and pick whatever tactic you want at will.

 Melissia wrote:
Hey, you're the one saying "everyone has to take guilliman omg!". Except... not everyone likes the guy. And frankly it's ridiculous to see two forces with guilliman on either side against each other. And I've seen that.

Read the title of the thread, then go back and read the OP posts.........WTF is this BS about loving or hating the Primarch got to do with anything? Just because you dislike him does not mean others are the same. The question is which chapter is the strongest for Primaris only, not do you like the Primarch and think he should be playable in 8th edition.

I still think it is too soon to tell which chapter will be best. There is just so much more to consider besides CT, and we have not seen everything yet. Id say wait for the codex.

Gibs55 wrote:
Read the title of the thread

I did read it, but apparently, you did not. Guilliman isn't a primaris marine, and therefor any army that includes him is not a "primaris-only list".

So stop trying to shove your favorite character down everyone's throats kthxbai.

I think RG tactics will help.

For now all the Primaris have to foot slog, and their weapons are usually 30 inches out. The -1 to hit you plus being in cover can work out well for you.

 KingCorpus wrote:
For now all the Primaris have to foot slog

They do get a hover-landraider (same toughness and wounds, but 3+ save instead of 2+) if you want to spend the points on it. Has a TON of firepower, too.

But yeah most of the time they're gonna have to footslog.

Thanks everyone again for your inputs. Very useful. I think I am more convinced on Ultramarines at the moment but I may start considering Raven Guard if I find a good/quick way of painting black power armour.
After looking at warlord traits and stratagems, I find UM can be good for heavy-infantry primaris lists (which I like on paper). Hell, even IF can be good at that with the "bolter drill".
I like a lot the alpha-strike and deployment flexibility RG can offer (plus it can be good on heavy-infantry now that there are more options than just rapid fire weapons for Intercessors and Hellblasters.

Gibs55 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
But if you don't like taking ugly, unfluffy special characters like a primarch, that's not really going to help you much.

Talk about a bad buzz....

Fluff is almost entirely up to the individual to decide if they like it or not. Rules and tactics have a material impact on the game which is what we are discussing. So I guess if you hate using a Primarch then that's a big incentive not to play Ultramarines, just like if you hate the Salamanders Fluff you probably won't play them either. Also no where has the OP said he does not like the idea of using him, in fact he even asked the question if his benefits outweigh the less powerful CT.

Moving on now

Yes, having access to Roboute is a plus for me, to be honest. While I don't want to be that guy who always deploys the primarch, I like being able to put him on front on my army commanding his new primaris kids even if it is just for display purposes!
And for tournaments..., if he's good, I will put him on the battlefield for sure!