Wolf Lair's Army Builder - basically dead?

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**evancich**

I haven't followed WL's army builder news. I remember the software becoming sort of free to anybody that had a valid license or something like that. Which, IIRC, at the time, they were under fire from GW and it seemed to me that they were getting out of the list construction software business.

I downloaded the newest version today, and wanted to use it to create a 40k 8th ed list and 8th ed doesn't seem to be supported.

Anybody know where I can get that file?

Is Army Builder not really supported (it seems like the X-Wing, for example, files are very out of date) anymore?

What is the preferred list building software nowadays?

thanks

**Skinnereal**

The 40k lists are subjected to a 30-day wait after points are published, AFAIK.
Army Builder is very much alive for other game systems, but 40k in AB got ripped apart.

**privateer4hire**

Long live battlescribe

**General Hobbs**

I've used both AB and Battlescribe and AB is a much easier program to use and gives a better list IMHO.

You can always make your own files to use with a game system in AB.

**filbert**

I much prefer AB output. I still haven't been able to ascertain why AB is subject to a 30 waiting period and Battlescribe isn't, however.

**Ghaz**

filbert wrote:
I much prefer AB output. I still haven't been able to ascertain why AB is subject to a 30 waiting period and Battlescribe isn't, however.

It's because AB predates all of the other army building software and was in uncharted territory. Hence a 30 day waiting period was implemented out of caution to prevent any legal actions on GW's part. Why the current maintainers have kept that policy is unknown (maybe to give them time to write the datafiles, etc.).

**Bookwrack**

General Hobbs wrote:

I've used both AB and Battlescribe and AB is a much easier program to use and gives a better list IMHO.

You can always make your own files to use with a game system in AB.

AB always got my vote out of sheer accessibility. I tried to pick up and use Battlescribe and it was nowhere near as transparent and user friendly.

**BaconCatBug**

Bookwrack wrote:
General Hobbs wrote:

I've used both AB and Battlescribe and AB is a much easier program to use and gives a better list IMHO.

You can always make your own files to use with a game system in AB.

AB always got my vote out of sheer accessibility. I tried to pick up and use Battlescribe and it was nowhere near as transparent and user friendly.

It's perfectly fine IMHO. People need to stop conflating "I have to spend 4 seconds learning a new program" with being user unfriendly.

Army Builder is outdated, locked out by their own silly policies and forces you to pay a licence fee instead of a one off. Battlescribe is free with useless extra "features" as donatorware (which pisses me off but if you're determined I am sure you can hack the java yourself).

**Stormonu**

I had used Army Builder since the first edition, but when I learned of Battlescribe, I easily switched over to that. IMHO, Battlescribe's output is superior to Army Builder's, to the point I've deleted AB off my computers.

I hate Army Builder's license structure (I had so many issues with it over the years) and that they don't have a tablet app where you can actually build (instead of just view) was the last straw.

**TheAuldGrump**

Stormonu wrote:
I had used Army Builder since the first edition, but when I learned of Battlescribe, I easily switched over to that. IMHO, Battlescribe's output is superior to Army Builder's, to the point I've deleted AB off my computers.

I hate Army Builder's license structure (I had so many issues with it over the years) and that they don't have a tablet app where you can actually build (instead of just view) was the last straw.

This is why I dropped AB as well.

BS isn't perfect, by any means - but... really not fond of AB's licensing scheme.

The Auld Grump

**daedalus**

Battlescribe is the happy meal wind-up toy of army building programs.

Having that been said, it's still the best one out there since the guy that does the AB datafiles isn't releasing anything.

I looked at Army Builder's roster creation stuff at one point in time. It did not look pleasant to learn. Maybe I'll take another look. Might not be too hard to modify the 7th ed stuff into something borderline useful.

**Ghaz**

daedalus wrote:
Battlescribe is the happy meal wind-up toy of army building programs.

Having that been said, it's still the best one out there since the guy that does the AB datafiles isn't releasing anything.

I looked at Army Builder's roster creation stuff at one point in time. It did not look pleasant to learn. Maybe I'll take another look. Might not be too hard to modify the 7th ed stuff into something borderline useful.

http://www.ab40k.org/tracker.php?p=32&t=4988

**daedalus**

Oh yeah, that's cool. I just wonder if it's not just better to make your own sometimes, at least in the interim, which is why I looked at it last around when 6th ed came out.

**evancich**

TL;DR. Version

The AB community doesn't have an ETA and we are outside of their self imposed 30 cool off period.

I tired Battle Scribe and it seemed perfectly fine and free (with an ad banner)

**TheAuldGrump**

daedalus wrote:
Battlescribe is the happy meal wind-up toy of army building programs.

Having that been said, it's still the best one out there since the guy that does the AB datafiles isn't releasing anything.

I looked at Army Builder's roster creation stuff at one point in time. It did not look pleasant to learn. Maybe I'll take another look. Might not be too hard to modify the 7th ed stuff into something borderline useful.

Every single army building program that I have seen, from Army Builder to Battle Scribe to dedicated programs for single game systems have been 'the happy meal wind up toy'.

None of them have stood out as truly excellent.

BS is a free happy meal wind up toy.

AB wants to charge me money every year for a happy meal wind up toy that is only marginally better - if that.

Given the lack of superiority, the free happy meal wind up toy gets my vote.

The Auld Grump - my dislike of AB is why I have not gotten Wolf Lair's Hero Lab character generation software.

**Ghaz**

TheAuldGrump wrote:
AB wants to charge me money every year for a happy meal wind up toy that is only marginally better - if that.

http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=army_builder&page=licensing#previous

**General Hobbs**

I bought my license years ago and haven't paid since. I like it better than BS....The latter program seems clunky to me, especially changing items on characters. I can't find a way to just create a Patrol detachment to go with my Marines.

**Gimgamgoo**

I still prefer Army Builder. I paid up years ago and it's been no yearly fee since.

My only gripe... it's not on my tablet, so I have a Battlescribe License for that.
Annoying I have to use 2 programs. I know BS works on my PC, but I prefer AB when at the PC.

Times seem to be changing though and data file creators seem to favour BS. I can't see AB being around with up to date data files in the future.

**daedalus**

I wanted to bump this with a note from the ab40k site:

http://www.ab40k.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3672&p=14613#p14613

A changing of the guard is upon us. Some of the most stalwart volunteers on the Warhammer 40K team for Army Builder are no longer in a position to continue their advance. These key contributors carried the standard for over a decade, and their commissions have sadly come to a close. As they move on to new battlefields, we salute their enduring dedication and hard work. Everyone in the community benefitted from their efforts!

What does this mean for 40K and Army Builder? Quite simply, the 40K volunteer team is looking for new blood to replenish their ranks and carry the standard onward!

Are you familiar with 40K and the inner workings of Army Builder? Do you want to lend a hand, ensuring you and others have updated content for the latest 40K game? Please email datafiles@ab40k.org to tell the team leads a little about yourself and what you can contribute to the effort.

I just volunteered my services. Figured I'd leave this in case anyone else felt inclined to do the same.

**Skinnereal**

Good going.
I'll keep an eye on the forus and posts, to see how you're getting on.

**Pseudomonas**

I used it at least 10 years ago but it's subscription requirement killed any interest I had in it, at least it seems to be a one off payment now.

Personally I use Battlescribe for 40k these days.