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Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




So, I've been playing in a campaign and I can say that Grey Knights are definitely subpar. At first glance they look pretty good and then when you put them on the field and compare them it becomes clear that they are either over priced or under powered or some combination thereof.
For Instance let's look at the Justicar- Basic SM stats does not come with a melee weapon (you must buy him one), 2 psychic powers (hammer hand and purge soul), a storm bolter and, a 3+ Armor Save all for the tidy sum of 250 points. The minimum cost for a weapon is 25 so the very cheapest you can get him for is 275. Let's look at a Harlequin Troupe Master he is +2M, +2WS, +1BS,-1S, -1T, +3I and +1Ld- He causes fear, has a clip belt, has a 4+ Invuln Save and, if he runs, imposes -2 modifier over the Justicar's running at -1 to hit all for 25 points more. A Tyranid Alpha gets +1M,+1WS,+1W,+1A and +1Ld he has a 4+ Armor Save and can re-roll his to wound dice. He has to buy a weapon as well but it can be as cheap as 10 points. With that 10 point investment he gains +1WS. His cost is 250 (+10). He also doesn't get pinned by any weapon less than S 7.
The reason I chose these 2 models to compare is because they are all supposed to lead "elite" forces that are restricted in terms of how many models they can have on their rosters. The weapon load outs that they can choose from are equally unbalanced. Grey Knights just don't compare to the other elites, either through stats or options.
When you compare them to "normal" opponents they don't fare well either. You are almost always significantly out numbered/outgunned and in this game the amount of dakka you can throw out there is important.
Maybe it was just me or my choices in buying men and equipment but I never felt that I had an even chance against any of my opponents.

My final build- Justicar with storm bolter and daemon hammer, 2 troopers both with storm bolters (1 w falchions, 1 w force sword), 2 gunners both with Psycannons. All of the storm bolters had reloads, psybolts, red dots and, telescopic sites, The Psycannons had reloads, red dots and, telescopic sites.

Another minor thing is that even if you have a pair of falchions RAW you don't get the extra attack for fighting with 2 weapons due to having a storm bolter.

/rant

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/26 15:56:34


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Falchions don't give you an extra attack for having two close combat weapons.

They give you an extra attack because they have a special rule which says you get an extra attack.

Re: the rest of your post: You are just wrong. Grey Knights are completely fine.

They are an elite army that shoots. They fight extremely poorly. You have to take advantage of their shooting prowess to win games, which means sneaking around until you set up your alpha strike, then pinning everything that can shoot back at them.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




There is no special rule for falchions giving you an extra attack. If you can find one then please share it because no one in my group could find it.

The rules state that if you are carrying a standard weapon then you do not get the extra attack (see the second paragraph). The stormbolter is not a pistol or a ccw and does not explicitly say to ignore it when using 2 weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 13:25:30


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

Yeah, Grey Knights in SW:A are underwhelming. Darkness got the rules about the extra attack wrong (you get to reroll wounds with Falchions, I believe), but he's basically right in that Grey Knights need to sit back and shoot, and only get into combat if it's a one-on-one fight against someone they can hope to win against.

Best thing you can probably do is suffer through you first game, then use a Promethium Cache in every game afterward to bring along a Paladin. The 2d6 save means he can soak up the hits instead of your other guys, while still shooting back.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Spending Prometium on one game is very shortsighted. You could spend that on a Psycannon to have in every game instead. And you should, you want two Psycannons as quickly as possible.

They are the most dangerous weapon in SW:A. They also aren't heavy weapons, so benefit fully from the combo-scope of photovisor/red-dot. Photovisor is a late game thing; early on you just use Astral Aim all the time. So you're hitting on a 2+ with only running typically providing a penalty. And you're not shooting at guys who run first most of the time anyway. You're shooting guys that can hurt you by shooting back, and they tend not to run.

Telescopic is not a good idea though, since you don't want to be stationary on the round before you start shooting, you'll just get shot first. And that's the real key to Grey Knights, they need to shoot first.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 14:57:11


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I guess the person who taught me the game misread the scope rules. He just added the distance and didn't notice that you had to be stationary to use it.

So, what do you recommend for the starting package and how do you build (excluding skills and losing someone for this purpose)?
I started Justicar with falchions, 2 Gunners with force staves and, Trooper with force sword.
I bought 2 Psycannons then my last trooper and finally a daemon hammer (trading falchions to newest trooper).
   
 
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