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So I just read an article highlighting some of the most petty and pointless changes Lucas enacted on the original trilogy, (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/feature/a824337/star-wars-original-trilogy-changes-george-lucas/) and I was reminded of a thought I had a little while ago which was, given that one of the key reasons given for Special Edition existing in the first place was to allow Lucas to more closely realize his original vision through advances in technology, and given that most would probably now agree that those changes now in the main look horribly dated, how would people feel if Disney were to go back and update the FX with the cutting edge 21st century tech they can now access? Not to materially change the narrative, just to fix some of the horribly 90s shiny CGI and generally bring it up to date visually?

I might buy it, I mean some changes helped but some were actually for the worse...particularly the CGI singers in jabbas palace...lord save us. Plus the bad CG on jabba when hes first shown walking with Solo.

Those CGI rocks with R2D2 are awful, because it looks like he couldn't have even fit in there in the first place. The obi wans cry change was iffy. I also don't like Lucas trying to make Han less of a shifty character with the whole shooting first ordeal.

The removal of Vaders eyebrows might make sense, I mean he was pretty much burnt into a potato chip...don't think he would ever grow hair anywhere again.

To honest I kind of want the original barebones cut of the movie just for the sake of it.

Disney CAN'T go back and "fix" ep4 any further.

THEY don't own it (srsly, FOX still own it. The original trilogy is theirs until 2020 - and even then, they will own ep4 in perpetuity unless they wish to sell it off.)

Ok, not Disney then, doesn't really change the substance of the discussion.

Fox have no desire to tweak the film(s). Those special editions were Lucas' problem-child, and he's the one that got them pushed through (because by that point, he had enough clout in the industry to do it).

Fox aren't the creative people, they look after the bottom line and little else. If it stops making them money (which it will) they will dump it like a red-headed stepchild.

Disney may own SW, but they let Lucasfilm an ILM run themselves(and when it comes to SW material, they get counsel on what to do with it from LFL first. They aren't stupid, they know that it's entirely possible to jump that space shark if they handle it badly - and they aren't going to dig it up when cranking out newer stuff is easier for them.

Honestly? There's a lot of things I like about the special editions. There's a lot of unnecessary garbage, but there's some legitimate enhancements in the film too. The problem is just the few scenes that are out of control stupid and even there everyone has a different tolerance for where that line is drawn. There's really not argument for Greedo's shot or Jedi Rocks, but personally I rather like the restoration of the Jabba scene (particularly since the effects have been significantly improved since the original theatrical hack job).

I'd love a perfect cut, I'm just aware that at this point there's almost no shared definition of what that means. I just kind of take the good with the bad and remember that for every weird Sarlaac beak I don't have to put up with goggle face or wonder who that Biggs guy was that just died.

Yeah, I'm of a similar mind, the changes never really illicited the same degree of anger in me that they seem to have in parts of the fan base, I find things like some additional X Wing space sequences and some of the Mos Eisley additions have dated horribly, to the point where some of the original puppetry and maquette work puts it to shame and has held up better despite being 20+ years older tech.

It seems much of that would be relatively elementary to "swap out" with higher definition, more detailed, work and that it would then jar far less with the practical FX that till look good to my eye much of the time, even to this day.

My problem hasn't been with the SE but the fact that they made it incredibly difficult to have decent versions of the originals. I recall something about the Library of Congress asking for copies of the originals for the archives because they were important films culturally and wanted the ones that people lined up for in the late 70's and early 80's but Lucas sent the SE.

 Ahtman wrote:
My problem hasn't been with the SE but the fact that they made it incredibly difficult to have decent versions of the originals. I recall something about the Library of Congress asking for copies of the originals for the archives because they were important films culturally and wanted the ones that people lined up for in the late 70's and early 80's but Lucas sent the SE.

Lucas claims that there are no remaining copies of the original cut. IIRC, the 'original' version of EP4 included on DVD a couple of years ago was actually the laserdisc version, which already had a few edits from the original.

 insaniak wrote:
Lucas claims that there are no remaining copies of the original cut.

Which means there is gross incompetence, maliciousness, or outright lies involved.

 Ahtman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Lucas claims that there are no remaining copies of the original cut.

Which means there is gross incompetence, maliciousness, or outright lies involved.

Most likely, a mix of all three. I loved star wars as a teen but man has my perception of it all changed over time. There is a certain bad taste leftover and if I had to assemble a top 10 movies list i'd find it hard to include any Star Wars in it...considering I was raised on it that is a bad sign.

I really, really like the Adywan version of ANH. I basically can't watch either the original or Special Edition anymore because of it.

He used a combination of the laserdisk version, Special Edition and added a few (very nicely done) extra bits that resulted in a great blend of old style, newer effects and cut out the stupid stuff from SE.

I last watched it a few weeks ago, back to back with Rogue One on Bluray and whilst it isn't as super crisp as Rogue One, I think that it stands up really well.

Lucas can suck my big, fat, hairy wookie.

Special Edition slammed the cutting edge material into 80s practical effects without any appreciation of what CGI is good for, and what it isn't. It certainly isn't helped by how early in its development CGI was. What you end up with is a mess, with two films trying to be different things.

I think it's beyond salvage- you'd end up with a reboot if you tried. That being said, the originals have a lot of charm. That's the main reason I own a vcr still, so I can run the old trilogy on vhs made just prior to special edition. I'm not sure if it's original, but it's the closest I have access to.

Its worth noting that ever time they release the Special Editions, they've actually gone back and cleaned up a lot of the CGI work. The texture on Jabba is probably the biggest improvement I actively notice.

In general though, nothing really holds up as well as practical effects. A lot of special effects are easier to update though, which is why we've all thankfully forgotten how bad the lightsabers originally looked.

 Ahtman wrote:
My problem hasn't been with the SE but the fact that they made it incredibly difficult to have decent versions of the originals.

If you want a very good version of the original movies, just search for harmy's despecialized edition

 Ahtman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Lucas claims that there are no remaining copies of the original cut.

Which means there is gross incompetence, maliciousness, or outright lies involved.

Sounds like a job for Seal Team Six! America's heritage must be protected. If you need to call in an Arclight mission on Hollywood Blvd, so be it!

 Chillreaper wrote:
I really, really like the Adywan version of ANH. I basically can't watch either the original or Special Edition anymore because of it.

Eww, Adywan's narcissistic trash. Please no.

There's at least one 35mm print of ep4 hiding in Sydney in a private collection (the same collector is said to have a copy of CE3K as well). Lucas couldn't track down ALL the copies even if he had tried. He just didn't have a legion of stormtroopers to do it.

It took 6 months for SW to hit local cinemas after US release - (partly because it took that long to produce enough copies for the US market - local release was October of those years). Local copies were printed by the local distributor to keep up with the demand, and when the prints wore, they were replaced, but the prints often wore in a different spot (down to the vagaries of the individual projectors), so it was possible to piece together a full copy from "discarded" used films.

Also, although that distributor was required to destroy those prints they had made, no-one went through each reel to verify that it was in fact the right movie. Some copies did slip off "the back of a truck".

In general, I'd be happy with new editions that correct obvious effects gaffes (like the odd scenes where they forgot to rotoscope the lightsaber blades, so Vader and Obi-Wan are fighting with silver sticks for a fraction of a second, or the dodgy compositing in the Rancor scene), as long as the originals are retained for archive purposes. I'm less happy about adding changes like the Jabba scene in Mos Eisley - that was pointless and added nothing worthwhile.

Same goes for any film, really. If someone thinks new technology can improve something, feel free to try. Just make sure to leave the original, in case they're wrong.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
In general, I'd be happy with new editions that correct obvious effects gaffes (like the odd scenes where they forgot to rotoscope the lightsaber blades, so Vader and Obi-Wan are fighting with silver sticks for a fraction of a second, or the dodgy compositing in the Rancor scene), as long as the originals are retained for archive purposes. I'm less happy about adding changes like the Jabba scene in Mos Eisley - that was pointless and added nothing worthwhile.

But we need the changes! Otherwise Han shot first and only a bad guy would shoot first! Do you want Han to be a bad guy?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't really mind the first special editions honestly, but then they were the first versions of the movies I ever saw. I don't mind touching up a film as time goes on but I think we can all acknowledge that at a point George Lucas became bizarrely obsessed with changing the films simply to suit his later egotism toward the franchise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE&t=248s

 LordofHats wrote:

But we need the changes! Otherwise Han shot first and only a bad guy would shoot first! Do you want Han to be a bad guy?!

No, Geroge needs them
The new Editions are the movies how he wanted them to be, but was not allowed to make it that way because they were bad (in different words, his wife changed Star Wars in the cutting room to the movie we love while he later wanted to change things back).

If Han is just shooting back, he would be a straight forward good guy (not the chaotic good guy) and it would be clear that he is coming back at the end. Also the scene with Jabba was cut for a reason.

Poe's law

There are a few CGI scenes that still look good. One that comes to mind is when the Falcon lifts off from the Cantina. That looks good. I mostly cant stand his changes though

 KingCracker wrote:
There are a few CGI scenes that still look good. One that comes to mind is when the Falcon lifts off from the Cantina. That looks good. I mostly cant stand his changes though

Most of the 'scenery' changes are fine. The wide view of Mos Eisley in Ep 4 was nice, and the changes to Cloud City in Ep 5 are gorgeous, if not strictly necessary.

The bits adding in CGI characters are jarring though, as they stand out so much from the puppetry of the time. The new Cantina intro is like 'It's a movie! - it's a cartoon! - it's a movie! - it's a cartoon!'


I remember watching one of the behind-the-scenes snippets on how they created the extra sandtrooper shot with the Dewback rider, and thinking afterwards that they put an awful lot of effort into creating a shot that looked so terribly fake, with the super-shiny sandtrooper flopping about up there.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Lucas claims that there are no remaining copies of the original cut.

Which means there is gross incompetence, maliciousness, or outright lies involved.

Most likely, a mix of all three. I loved star wars as a teen but man has my perception of it all changed over time. There is a certain bad taste leftover and if I had to assemble a top 10 movies list i'd find it hard to include any Star Wars in it...considering I was raised on it that is a bad sign.

I was raised on it as well, but I can easily list 10 films I'd rewatch over A New Hope. My biggest issue with it is that it is obviously not part of a well planned world setting. Sure, he had ideas, but nothing as coherent as he claimed.

I like this list.

"Lucas' Original Vision".

The guy was flying by the seat of his pants and made countless changes on the spot. His 'original vision' was nothing like what we got, nothing like what he claims it is.

Every time I see those three words, I laugh. That phrase is meaningless and hollow.

No, we never needed a 'Special' edition, or an 'enhanced' edition. Star Wars as it is now is a dumpster fire (Except Rogue One), and truthfully it's still better than it was when Lucas was lording over it. I still firmly believe he wanted KotOR canned because they told a better story than he did and trashed his simplistic good/evil aspects of the Force.

I look forward to seeing Disney do what they do best with Star Wars- driving it into the ground until everyone is sick of it and it's lost to memory.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


I look forward to seeing Disney do what they do best with Star Wars- driving it into the ground until everyone is sick of it and it's lost to memory.

Seeing the effort they put into getting Rogue One right, and the same process happening with the Han Solo movie, I'm growing less convinced that's going to happen any time soon. At least for now, management seems to care enough about the franchise to want it to be good, rather than just a money spinner for as long as it lasts.

I'm kind of split on this one. Going back to touch up some of the effects work while keeping the scenes the same? Yeah, I can see that, as long as we still have the 1977 version for its historical value. For example, the updates to the death star fight in ANH were a pretty big improvement over the original shots (which were badly limited by the available technology, just compare the motion of the ships between ANH and ROTJ) but kept the same shot-by-shot sequence for everything. Everything still flows the same, the ships just move more naturally. Or things like removing matte lines or color restoration, where it's purely a cleanup effort, are fine. But I don't like the idea of continuing to add scenes, change the meaning of scenes, etc. That's not just an update to the effects quality, that's making a whole new movie and pretending that it was meant to be that way. And unless there's some deleted material still unseen that would be worth including, like the Biggs scene in ANH that is pretty essential to the story and definitely needed to be added, I can't see any reason to keep making those changes.

 insaniak wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
There are a few CGI scenes that still look good. One that comes to mind is when the Falcon lifts off from the Cantina. That looks good. I mostly cant stand his changes though

Most of the 'scenery' changes are fine. The wide view of Mos Eisley in Ep 4 was nice, and the changes to Cloud City in Ep 5 are gorgeous, if not strictly necessary.

The bits adding in CGI characters are jarring though, as they stand out so much from the puppetry of the time. The new Cantina intro is like 'It's a movie! - it's a cartoon! - it's a movie! - it's a cartoon!'


I remember watching one of the behind-the-scenes snippets on how they created the extra sandtrooper shot with the Dewback rider, and thinking afterwards that they put an awful lot of effort into creating a shot that looked so terribly fake, with the super-shiny sandtrooper flopping about up there.

Heh yea thats exactly how it feels watching the touch ups. Cartoony and very awkward looking. I think Ive seen that documentary where they were explaining all the processes and I too thought "wow lots of effort for something that made the scene distracting rather than better"