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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

With the worst top finish of any major army at the BAO, I thought now would be a good time to go over what wrong with the necrons in 8th ed. I know a lot of people still have grudges against necrons from 7th ed, but we aren't that army anymore, so please keep an open mind. Hopefully by raising awareness of the issues with Necrons we can have a few quality of life changes made to tide us over until a codex.

Part 1 Tomb world deployment
What do you call something that has the worst elements of summoning, transports, and deep strike, tomb world deploy. Necrons have 1 transport in this edition, and it only works for warriors at min unit size (a problem I'll go more into in a later post). This is on a faction that moves 5" and has super short range guns, we need ways to get across the battlefield, and we just don't have it. Instead of giving us transports, they gave us tomb world deploy, which for those unfamiliar with it, when setting up you pick units to deploy into tomb world reserves, and they can come in via night scythes invasion beam, or a monoliths eternity gate. Night scythes are fast and monoliths can deep strike so it seems like a winning tactic right? Well not really. It has a host of problems that make it worse than worthless, because we are paying for the right to have this worthless ability on two of our vehicles:

  • If you lose your portals, all of the units left in tomb world deploy count as casualties. With other transports you roll a die for each person on board and on a one remove them. So tomb world deploy is already way more risky than transports in other armies, and given how expensive the monolith and night scythes are you're unlikely to have more than one or two portals on the board.

  • All units in tomb world deployment have to be on the board by turn three or be removed as casualties. Other units can hide in transport waiting for the right moment to strike, necrons are on a clock from the word go, and will only have one or two opportunities to deploy before being removed as casualties.

  • Only one unit can go through a portal at a time. Other transports can disembark all of their passengers at once, not so with tomb world deploy. If you put an IC in tomb world deploy, he will take up an entire turn to deploy. Since you need to get units out of the tomb world as fast as possible, you don’t bring ICs. This means the troops coming out of the portal are generally left unsupported, which is a problem in 8th ed because of the reliance on HQ to buff infantry for them to be effective.

  • Disembarking from a portal happens at the beginning of the movement phase, so it will always be turn two or later before you can actually call units from the tomb world. Remember from one and two you are on a clock, because if you lose your portals all units die, if they are not deployed by the end of turn three they die then as well. So this makes a tight timeline nearly untenable. I know this is how other transports work but there is an additional rub...

  • Portals do not have the transport keyword, so disembarking takes up the units entire movement. It’s a real pain for our slow assault units who get out after having telegraphed where they are coming from (having deep struck or flown over the prior turn) and hoping the enemy hung around within 10” so that you can charge them.

  • We can not re-embark into tomb world deploy, once on the board necrons have to foot slog for the rest of the game.


  • So despite desperately needing something like tomb world deploy, you won’t see Necrons use it because it is a trap. This lack of mobility is one of the reasons the best necron player placed 46th at the BAO, armies with transports or deep strike can dance circles around necrons, and mobility allows enemies to take advantage of our other issues.

    Part 2 weak offense
    Necron offense is weak in comparison to the armies we fight, not because our weapons suck (some do but I’ll get to that) but because we have very limited access to heavy weapons, and no access to special weapons. We also pay a premium for our heavier weapons, which often cost half again as much as imperial equivalents.

  • Our lascannon equivalent is available to exactly two units, Heavy destroyers who come in a max unit size of three, and the Triarch stalker a walker/light tank who can take a twin linked version. It is also seven points more expensive as a lascannon at 32 points with a shorter max range.

  • Our other big guns are a weapon with a d3 shots that can’t move and fire (doomsday ark), and a heavy weapon on a flyer with a minimum movement (doom scythe). If the DDA was on a space marine list it would never get a second glance because everyone would take quad las predators to fill the same role more effectively for less points and with better mobility. The doom scythe is about as expensive as a kitted out stormraven, and far less capable, having a worse save, lacking a machine spirit, transport capacity, or the ability to customize loadout.

  • The most common armament on our vehicles is something that is more or less equivalent to a high str hurricane bolter, an assault 8, S7, 0ap, 1D, that gets extra shots on sixes to hit. With the extra shots and out BS it work out to be about 8 hits for 8 shots. We have this on our light tank, our flyers and on our super heavies. Against anything with a decent armor save and toughness it hits like a wet noodle, with average rolls it might get a single wound through on predator or other toughness 7 vehicle.

  • Our best offensive unit is destroyers, who are armed with a grav equivalent (those things that got dropped like a gladius when 7th ed ended and no one ever looked back), it has a 24” range, Heavy 2, S5, ap -3, D3 damage. The low strength makes high toughness targets problematic, but it works well against heavy infantry. The problem is it cost almost as much as a lascannon (20 points), and destroyers cost as much an attack bike (43 points). They end up being more expensive and less capable versions of hell blasters.

  • Necrons have fixed weapon loadouts for the majority of our units, and with one exception they are all mono weapon units. So to change the target profile you are going after, you have to change your entire army composition. You can’t just load out on heavy bolters or lascannons, you literally have to take different units. This makes a necron TAC list hard to pull off, because each type of unit has it’s own support, for example destroyers need a destroyer lord, but destroyer lords are useless for for our troop choices. I’ll get more into my concerns about necron buffs in a later post though.


  • Part three repair protocols

    Originally I had a long write up about RP, and it's lacks, but truth be told if you've gotten this far in this thread, you already know what the problem is. RP can be bypassed by using focus fire. Focus fire is generally what you should be doing in the first place, so you can get past RP by doing what you would have done anyway. I think the current RP rule is beyond salvage, they could make it a 2+ and it wouldn't matter in high levels of play. Since they can't buff it out, they'll have to replace it, and the other options are to go back to 5th ed RP, where you get one chance to come back, but can do so if your unit is wiped out, or 7th ed where RP is a FnP style save. Both of those options are stronger mechanically, but boring. I'm probably going to get myself into trouble with the other necron players, but it might just be best to leave it as it is. it's not a top notch ability, but getting us back to absurd levels of toughness doesn't do us any favors. There is a real opportunity here to bring us back into line with the other factions without turning us into the turtle faction. If we can have our mobility, offense and synergy (more on that in a second) brought into line with what other armies, we will be more fun to play and more fun to play against.

    Part Four lack of synergy

    Comparing mobility and weapons shows some areas where improvement is needed but it only tells part of the story. The least obvious problem with the Necrons is the hit or miss synergy between HQ units and the rest of the army. We have pretty lack luster buffs, as well some really questionable decisions on our independent characters. I'd spend some time on our special characters but they can be summed up by saying they don't add enough to their generic counterparts to justify their expense.

  • “My Will Be Done” is inferior to reroll ones that captains have, on the surface it appears to be better because it’s a 17% buff compared to reroll ones to hit being an 11% buff. The problem is that reroll ones is a six inch aura, and MWBD is one unit within 6”. So it’s not unreasonable for rites of command or what not to be affecting 3 or 4 units at a time, MWBD only ever gets one unit.

  • A destroyer lord has a reroll ones to wound aura, kind of like space marine lieutenants, but it only works on destroyers. So 90% of our units can’t use his aura, and at 315+ points per unit of destroyers, you are not getting much mileage out of that aura. It’s like having a buff that only affects attack bikes.

  • A cryptek has a 3” range on his two auras, he literally has to be within consolidation distance (and he has the weakest statline for an IC in the necrons) for units to benefit from his aura. I can’t even fathom who thought that was a good idea, it has to have been a leftover from a prior iteration of the rules that no ever one bothered to update.

  • “The Lord’s will” is a really weak buff, it allows you to reroll failed morale checks. The rub is we have army wide LD 10, so the only units that benefit from his aura are 10+ man strong units, which are immortals and warriors since praetorians are immune to morale. He also only saves about an average of one dude per morale check. He is so universally ignored by necron players that GW nerfed RP to try and make his aura useful, and now we have weaker repair protocols and we still don’t take him.


  • Well that's it for me, thank you for walking through this wall of text and listening to the issues another faction is having. Maybe we can raise some awareness and get some fixes, but at the very least it was pretty cathartic for me. As always I'd love to hear you ideas and comments.

    PS: as per a prior post here is the link to the BAO placements since it's been asked for a few times in the thread: https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/79exy3cp

    This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/08/03 07:35:57


    Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
       
    Made in au
    Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





    Perth

    What confuses me is that when you watch FLG talk about playtesting and all that they were saying that they were super scared necrons were going to be super OP. I wonder if they were seeing stuff we didnt, or that they had a different meta. Either way I really hope we get most of this addressed in our Codex, cus as of now were not in the best place. All of our fun tricks/combo's are prohibitively expensive, were slow as hell, have wonky/unusable transports, and our whole 'tough as nails' shtick isn't really a thing anymore.

    Im not complaining overall, were not in a bad spot, even if everything stayed as expensive as it is now, and was just made workable id be content.

    12,000
     
       
    Made in ca
    Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





    British Columbia

    Feels like both Necron reserves and Daemon summoning were from an earlier build of the system. Completely out of sync with the other factions reserves mechanics.

     BlaxicanX wrote:
    A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


     
       
    Made in au
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    Perth

    Yeah, at least Daemon summoning can happen after turn 3, and can happen t1. Unless we sink another 240 points into a C'tan, we have 2 rounds to deploy our stuff, and then theyre stuck where they are that turn.

    12,000
     
       
    Made in fr
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    on the forum. Obviously

    Necrons don't need transports, they need to teleport. They are the masters of time and space. Riding around in a metal bawks is for primitives.
    Remember the veil of darkness? That was a good item.
    But yeah, our mobility options are terrible now. Hopefully we'll get our traditional stuff back in the codex.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 09:01:54


    What I have
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    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

    It's irritating how Necrons are supposed to be the masters of teleportation, and yet they seem far behind most other races in their ability to do so.

    Also, just on the subject of transports, why is the Ghost Ark not open-topped?



    "Oh no, how can we possibly see through all these weighty cubes of nothing?"


     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    Necrons don't need transports, they need to teleport. They are the masters of time and space. Riding around in a metal bawks is for primitives.


    I wish someone had said this to Matt Ward back in 5th.

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in us
    Been Around the Block





    Agree with everything above, but I think it focuses on the negatives of Tomb world deploy, and mis-identifies the real reason Necrons are underpowered.

    Tomb world deploy does have some advantages. First the models that allow for this are pretty good on their own (especially monolith at BS 3+). You get the benefit of deep striking closer than 9" from an enemy. Alternatively, if you think of the ability as a transport rule, you don't have to declare what unit is in what transport, adding some flexibility. I know this doesn't completely outweigh the disadvantages, but it helps. Alternatively, (or in conjunction) Necron players can just skip the Tomb world, and re-deploy some of their army using the Deceiver, or come in using deepstrike (flayed ones). If you deploy a monolith on the table, and redeploy it using the Deceiver, you can bring in a unit from the Tomb World right in the opponents face on turn 1. Some armies such as Ad Mech don't have any transports, and would love to have any of these options.

    I think the Necron index was relatively well written, to a higher standard than many of the other indices, and this is currently its downfall. Someone else recently put a poll on the general discussion page asking for votes on the TOP THREE strongest units of 8th edition FOR THEIR POINTS COST.
    No Necron units are on that list. Perhaps the Forgeworld Pylon is too good, I'm not sure. But I don't think anything in the Necron index is OP like the Guillimans, Conscripts, Kastellan robots, Celestines, Tempestus, Ynarri, and demons that other factions get.

    So while players of other factions scoured their index to identify and maximize use of the most undercosted or overpowered units, Necrons players are/were stuck with a balanced index (which is perhaps 5-10% over priced across the board). But in an alternative reality where the top 20 undercosted units in the game had arbitrary 50% point increases, and a key model in the Necron army like the monolith was accidentally too good, I think Necrons would be performing just fine.
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

    I have to disagree - I don't think the Necron book is particularly well balanced. It's just that it leans towards being underpowered rather than overpowered, so it doesn't stand out to non-Necron players as being an issue.

    What's more, this is only likely to get worse given that codices are straight buffs to their respective armies. e.g. SMs got:
    - New Strategies and Warlord Traits (fair enough).
    - Free buffs for most of their units (sigh).
    - Point drops across the board (and no increase for the criminally-undercosted Gilliman).
    - A free relic for one model, and up to 2 more with CPs. (Really?)

    In other news, I think that the nerf to RPs (in that they can't revive slain models) was completely unnecessary. Especially given that we're pushed to take maximum squads by the new RP rules and have no way to ignore Ld.

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in us
    Numberless Necron Warrior




    Tower wrote:
    First the models that allow for this are pretty good on their own (especially monolith at BS 3+).


    I've seen "the monolith is good this edition" thrown out a few times. I haven't seen it. Certainly not for its points. For the second edition I'm playing my monoliths as Bastions because they have similar survivability, greater punch, greater range, and cost substantially less. I'd like to be able to improve their accuracy, but the extra foot+ of range and models I can get for the same price as a monolith make that an acceptable tradeoff. I'd also like a way to give the thing Living Metal, but that's mostly fluff because the monolith will at best heal 5-7 points in a game (usually ~3) and the extra point of toughness on a bastion reducing high-power hits generally shaves off at least that much damage.

    The night scythe is a decent transporter, and as a flier has maneuverability and survivability. It still kills me, edition after edition, that the super-tech aliens have worse maneuverability than the Humans for less survivability and shots... but those are the choices that have been made.


       
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    The Eternity Gate

    Posted in the tactics thread but I'll post here as well. Necrons can be terrors of your local club but will likely be stuck at mid-table in a large event as they simply don't have the tools to beat most meta lists.

    1) IG conscript spam with artillery. As Grimgold posted in OP, we don't have great board control for movement so screened artillery becomes untouchable. We also lack true horde control so enough bodies is simply a rock to our scissors.

    2) Bobby G. We have nothing that can go toe to toe with him and it's not like you can just shoot him against a good opponent.

    3) Flyers. Excluding the pylon we have straight up ziltch to deal flyers other than mass dice.

    Look at the best BAO lists and what do you know, those things are top.

    The other problem is the army itself in 8th.

    1) Tesla destructors. Our main tank and plane weapon took a big hit in 8th. Strength 7 went from wounding most things on a 2 to a 3. Since it has no AP it is a worthless gun against anything other than infantry with would be fine if it wasn't positioned as our main anti-tank weapon.

    2) No anti-flyer. As above, no dedicated anti-flyer means God help you against stormraven, hemlocks, or other flyers. Our own flyers are not good due to their weapon and gain no bonuses against enemies.

    3) no psykers. Necrons, obviously, don't have any psykers which is fine except we lose out on a whole phase of the game. What's worse is that we also have no real psyker defense. This means we both lose buffing and offensive potential but also defensive options and makes armies like brimstone's spam with Magnus a pie in the sky army to beat.

    4) Anti-tank. Tanks are back and bad in 8th which I think is great but the necron army didn't transition to 8th well in dealing with them. You can point to our summary and say oh, look at those awesome weapon profiles, what are you smoking!? But the problem is the platforms they are on are fragile and expensive. Heavy destroyers are 75pts for a single lascannon shot. Doomscythes have the death Ray's but will always be hitting on 4's. DDA are great so long as you can keep rolling well plus they have to sit still. Triarch stalkers are super fragile and very expensive at 181 points for just 2 lascannon shots.

    None of this is to be construed as woes to the necrons but it does broach good discussion. Indeed, I this they have great internal balance but their external balance is pretty bad.

    01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
       
    Made in de
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    Yeah, the Monolith seems pretty terrible, even with BS3+. It's paying 19 points per wound with a 3+ save, no invulnerable save, and no Quantum Shielding. The lack of QS is an especially big deal because a Monolith will often be the only thing in your list that's worth shooting a lascannon at. It only spits out one unit per turn, and not on the turn it shows up, and then that unit can't move. Its weaponry is pretty pathetic for its cost and many things are going to be able to simply move away from it since it only shoots 24" and moves 6".

    Likewise the Night Scythe is pretty sad. Against many targets, it shoots a lot like 4 Immortals. If not for the penalty to hit when moving, you'd basically always prefer it to be armed with a twin assault cannon instead. A Stormhawk is going to shoot better against basically everything and especially things with Fly, can hover, and is cheaper. I've not found its transport capacity to be at all worth it. You can't hope to drop something right in the enemy's face unless you bring more than one NS/Monolith, even though you don't actually intend to actually use all of them to call in reinforcements, but if you bring a lot of Night Scythes your opponent is just going to ignore them because they're a huge points sink for something that barely does any damage.
       
    Made in au
    Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





    Perth

    I agree with all the above.... except the anti tank. Somehow and somewhere lots and lots of people across multiple medias have gotten the idea that we dont have good anti tank.

    Heavy destroyers and Doomscythes are our worst anti tank, and sure they aren't great. But everything else is very good. DDA, TA, SP, Pylon, aranthracites, tomb sentinel. All perform very well for their points cost.

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    Made in de
    Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





    I wouldn't give too much about tournaments. Just look at the ETC lists. They are incredibly boring and choose only 3 units out of each codex, sometimes less.

    So the only problem of Necrons in a tournament setting is that they don't have any of these broken units. You know what? Out of all Chaos armies(9 Legions+Renegades+R+H+4Daemons) only one has access to Tournament units - namely Tzeentch daemons. Without Brimstones Chaos would be at the same point as Necrons, probably worse as Necrons has overall pretty cool units.
    Necrons are totally okay in a casual setting, they simply lack broken units. And I think if that were the case for every army in 40K that game would finally be balanced .
       
    Made in us
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    East Bay, Ca, US

    Can you please share the full rankings? i can't seem to find them on google


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Sgt. Cortez wrote:
    I wouldn't give too much about tournaments. Just look at the ETC lists. They are incredibly boring and choose only 3 units out of each codex, sometimes less.

    So the only problem of Necrons in a tournament setting is that they don't have any of these broken units. You know what? Out of all Chaos armies(9 Legions+Renegades+R+H+4Daemons) only one has access to Tournament units - namely Tzeentch daemons. Without Brimstones Chaos would be at the same point as Necrons, probably worse as Necrons has overall pretty cool units.
    Necrons are totally okay in a casual setting, they simply lack broken units. And I think if that were the case for every army in 40K that game would finally be balanced .


    Magnus + Knights is a good list, Daemon Princes are still good.

    ETC was done before the FAQ that nerfed flier spam. So i would expect that meta to be very stale.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 15:57:14


     Galas wrote:
    I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

    Bharring wrote:
    He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
     
       
    Made in us
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    Ute nation

    Knowing that the good stuff will come with the codex, here are my thoughts on a few quality of life changes that would make tombe world deploy not awful:

    1.) If you lose your portals, make it so your units show up on your table edge, also with a 1 in 6 chance of dying. You pay for the versatility of using multiple entry points by not deploying where the transport died.
    2.) Give portals the transport keyword, or an equivalent rule, so units can move after "disembarking".
    3.) Make it so that the portal can deliver up to 1 IC and one unit per round, so characters are no longer bottlenecks.
    4.) Have units in the tomb world not count as being in reserve, so they are not auto-murdered at the end of turn 3.

    These four changes won't make tomb world deploy awesome, but will make it tolerable. To make it awesome and a faction defining ability here are some ideas:

    A.) Make it so units can embark via portals into tomb world deployment. So a unit could enter via a monolith and exit the next turn via a nightscythe on the other side of the board. Fluffy and fun.

    B.) Get rid of the dynasty keyword requirement, or make sure all of our units have a dynasty keyword. Some of our units don't have a dynasty keyword, and some of our HQ do not either, so they can't use tomb world deploy.

    C.) Make portaling in happen at the end of the turn, if it's going to have the restrictions of deep strike, they could at least give us one of deep strikes advantages.Night scythe zooms up the board, and drops off a squad of lychguard. Who then could then possibly make a first turn charge.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    @marmatag it's on BCP, but their site is more than a little arcane. Here is a direct link;

    https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/79exy3cp

    Note they withhold lists because they use them as a revenue source. So to see lists you have to have a subscription and to use their god awful mobile app.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 16:30:16


    Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

     vipoid wrote:
    It's irritating how Necrons are supposed to be the masters of teleportation, and yet they seem far behind most other races in their ability to do so.

    Also, just on the subject of transports, why is the Ghost Ark not open-topped?



    "Oh no, how can we possibly see through all these weighty cubes of nothing?"




    Actually, the fact that you can't shoot out of it makes perfect sense now, as its assumed that the occupants are all undergoing critical repairs. They are simply too damaged to fight back.
    Hence the rule that allows RP to work even though the embarked squad is not on the table. They clearly intend for you to embark a squad with a few models left onto the ark to protect it from fire whilst RP brings back a few.
    And I like that. Its not perfect, but its better than the necron cosplaying raiders they were before.

    What I have
    ~4100
    ~1660

    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in ca
    Longtime Dakkanaut





     Grimgold wrote:
    With the worst top finish of any major army at the BAO, I thought now would be a good time to go over what wrong with the necrons in 8th ed. I know a lot of people still have grudges against necrons from 7th ed, but we aren't that army anymore, so please keep an open mind. Hopefully by raising awareness of the issues with Necrons we can have a few quality of life changes made to tide us over until a codex.

    What do you call something that has the worst elements of summoning, transports, and deep strike, tomb world deploy. Necrons have 1 transport in this edition, and it only works for warriors at min unit size (a problem I'll go more into in a later post). This is on a faction that moves 5" and has super short range guns, we need ways to get across the battlefield, and we just don't have it. Instead of giving us transports, they gave us tomb world deploy, which for those unfamiliar with it, when setting up you pick units to deploy into tomb world reserves, and they can come in via night scythes invasion beam, or a monoliths eternity gate. Night scythes are fast and monoliths can deep strike so it seems like a winning tactic right? Well not really. It has a host of problems that make it worse than worthless, because we are paying for the right to have this worthless ability on two of our vehicles:

  • If you lose your portals, all of the units left in tomb world deploy count as casualties. With other transports you roll a die for each person on board and on a one remove them. So tomb world deploy is already way more risky than transports in other armies, and given how expensive the monolith and night scythes are you're unlikely to have more than one or two portals on the board.

  • All units in tomb world deployment have to be on the board by turn three or be removed as casualties. Other units can hide in transport waiting for the right moment to strike, necrons are on a clock from the word go, and will only have one or two opportunities to deploy before being removed as casualties.

  • Only one unit can go through a portal at a time. Other transports can disembark all of their passengers at once, not so with tomb world deploy. If you put an IC in tomb world deploy, he will take up an entire turn to deploy. Since you need to get units out of the tomb world as fast as possible, you don’t bring ICs. This means the troops coming out of the portal are generally left unsupported, which is a problem in 8th ed because of the reliance on HQ to buff infantry for them to be effective.

  • Disembarking from a portal happens at the beginning of the movement phase, so it will always be turn two or later before you can actually call units from the tomb world. Remember from one and two you are on a clock, because if you lose your portals all units die, if they are not deployed by the end of turn three they die then as well. So this makes a tight timeline nearly untenable. I know this is how other transports work but there is an additional rub...

  • Portals do not have the transport keyword, so disembarking takes up the units entire movement. It’s a real pain for our slow assault units who get out after having telegraphed where they are coming from (having deep struck or flown over the prior turn) and hoping the enemy hung around within 10” so that you can charge them.

  • We can not re-embark into tomb world deploy, once on the board necrons have to foot slog for the rest of the game.


  • So despite desperately needing something like tomb world deploy, you won’t see Necrons use it because it is a trap. This lack of mobility is one of the reasons the best necron player placed 46th at the BAO, armies with transports or deep strike can dance circles around necrons, and mobility allows enemies to take advantage of our other issues.


    These are fantastic points. Thanks for posting! Those are solid reasons why the army is having issues. They're not weak individually, but their lack of movement options in a game so centred on movement now is a real issue for them. I think that you're correct in that if Necrons could have 1 Character plus a unit come out of their Reserves, and/or could have units walk onto the board from their board edge like before if the transport is destroyed, and/or could hold units in reserve past the 3-turn limit, then they would have a lot more options to getting around. It'd be really cool to have their transports beam models back to the homeworld for a turn of repairs before coming back in.

    As for their Reanimation Protocols, they're still very good (even moreso really, because it's forever), but they suffer the VERY REAL penalty of "wipe out the unit, and they never come back". Since it's so easy to shoot through and past units now, it's not hard to take them out. If you could more effectively hide and easily gain +1 armour due to cover, then the Necron Reanimation would be a lot stronger.

     Galef wrote:
    If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    Actually, the fact that you can't shoot out of it makes perfect sense now, as its assumed that the occupants are all undergoing critical repairs. They are simply too damaged to fight back.


    That makes even less sense.

    So you have a completely undamaged unit of Warriors aboard it . . . who are far too damaged to do anything.

    What's more, why then does it make a difference if you disembark them? Why is it that these warriors that are "too damaged to fight back" can just walk off and shoot normally? Is the Ghost Ark itself damaging them while they're aboard to pretend that it actually has a purpose? Or does it just offer free Wifi and they're too mesmerised by Youtube cat videos to do anything?

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in us
    Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






     Eldarain wrote:
    Feels like both Necron reserves and Daemon summoning were from an earlier build of the system. Completely out of sync with the other factions reserves mechanics.


    And drop pods. I'm usually a pretty anti-marine guy, but Drop Pods are absolutely DESPERATE for something to differentiate them.

    They're 100 points. Allow the dropped unit to use flamers/meltas and have a decently assured chance at a charge. 100 points is totally fair for that, because that's an extra 100 points you have to kill with your alpha to stay relevant.

    "Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

    "So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

    "you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

    "...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

    the_scotsman wrote:
     Eldarain wrote:
    Feels like both Necron reserves and Daemon summoning were from an earlier build of the system. Completely out of sync with the other factions reserves mechanics.


    And drop pods. I'm usually a pretty anti-marine guy, but Drop Pods are absolutely DESPERATE for something to differentiate them.

    They're 100 points. Allow the dropped unit to use flamers/meltas and have a decently assured chance at a charge. 100 points is totally fair for that, because that's an extra 100 points you have to kill with your alpha to stay relevant.


    Yeah, I think the unit needs to be able to get a bit closer than 9". Maybe just over 6" (so 3" from the pod, if it landed just over 9" from the enemy).

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

     vipoid wrote:
     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    Actually, the fact that you can't shoot out of it makes perfect sense now, as its assumed that the occupants are all undergoing critical repairs. They are simply too damaged to fight back.


    That makes even less sense.

    So you have a completely undamaged unit of Warriors aboard it . . . who are far too damaged to do anything.

    What's more, why then does it make a difference if you disembark them? Why is it that these warriors that are "too damaged to fight back" can just walk off and shoot normally? Is the Ghost Ark itself damaging them while they're aboard to pretend that it actually has a purpose? Or does it just offer free Wifi and they're too mesmerised by Youtube cat videos to do anything?


    It does fall apart if you try to use it as a conventional transport. If you just use it as a repair boat and only put weakened squads in it, then it makes a little bit more sense.
    They probably could have represented it better though.

    What I have
    ~4100
    ~1660

    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

     Yarium wrote:

    As for their Reanimation Protocols, they're still very good (even moreso really, because it's forever), but they suffer the VERY REAL penalty of "wipe out the unit, and they never come back". Since it's so easy to shoot through and past units now, it's not hard to take them out. If you could more effectively hide and easily gain +1 armour due to cover, then the Necron Reanimation would be a lot stronger.


    One thing I find a bit irritating is that it pushes you to use maximum squads. I used to like running MSU Necrons.

     CthuluIsSpy wrote:

    It does fall apart if you try to use it as a conventional transport. If you just use it as a repair boat and only put weakened squads in it, then it makes a little bit more sense.


    Even then though, it still doesn't make sense. The warriors embarked on it are either dead (awaiting RPs) - in which case they couldn't fire even if it was open-topped. or they're fine, in which case there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to fire - especially when they can just get out and do so.


     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    They probably could have represented it better though.


    On that at least we agree.

    If it's meant to be a repair barge, then I don't think it should be transporting models at all (at least not in game terms). Instead, I'd let it give a better bonus to Warrior RPs (since they can be more quickly repaired and returned to service). Or perhaps have a mechanic by which it can collect warrior models whose squads have been completely wiped out (up to a maximum of 10), and respawn the squad after a turn or two.

    In essence, if every model aboard is completely unable to fire then it has no business transporting models that are fully intact with no need of repair.

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in us
    Numberless Necron Warrior




     Klowny wrote:
    I agree with all the above.... except the anti tank. Somehow and somewhere lots and lots of people across multiple medias have gotten the idea that we dont have good anti tank.

    Heavy destroyers and Doomscythes are our worst anti tank, and sure they aren't great. But everything else is very good. DDA, TA, SP, Pylon, aranthracites, tomb sentinel. All perform very well for their points cost.

    It feels like a decision was made that every necron unit should do ONE thing really well and pay a premium for anything else. Unfortunately, that only works out for the glass cannons that can sit in the rear line and pelt away. The monolith becomes a big block of minimally mobile wounds that can flail at anything that cames into range and lingers. Close combat units have to contend with getting into melee if they have to cross board (generally) or have one shot at charging. Units that can move at good speed have had their close combat turned way down (scarabs and wraiths). And our fliers... can move really fast! Can't turn worth anything or deliver a great amount of firepower before rushing on really fast.

    So, yeah, we have anti-tank. Assuming they don't bring artillery...

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 18:09:04


       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

     vipoid wrote:

     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    They probably could have represented it better though.


    On that at least we agree.

    If it's meant to be a repair barge, then I don't think it should be transporting models at all (at least not in game terms). Instead, I'd let it give a better bonus to Warrior RPs (since they can be more quickly repaired and returned to service). Or perhaps have a mechanic by which it can collect warrior models whose squads have been completely wiped out (up to a maximum of 10), and respawn the squad after a turn or two.

    In essence, if every model aboard is completely unable to fire then it has no business transporting models that are fully intact with no need of repair.


    That's actually a pretty good suggestion. I too would be happy to turn the GA into a dedicated repair vehicle instead of a dedicated transport vehicle.
    Appearance wise it doesn't even make sense as a transport. Where do the passengers go? There's broken necrons everywhere. Do they sit on the broken warriors?

    What I have
    ~4100
    ~1660

    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in us
    Irked Necron Immortal




    Newark, CA

     vipoid wrote:
    It's irritating how Necrons are supposed to be the masters of teleportation, and yet they seem far behind most other races in their ability to do so.

    Also, just on the subject of transports, why is the Ghost Ark not open-topped?



    "Oh no, how can we possibly see through all these weighty cubes of nothing?"


     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    Necrons don't need transports, they need to teleport. They are the masters of time and space. Riding around in a metal bawks is for primitives.


    I wish someone had said this to Matt Ward back in 5th.


    The ghost ark fascinates me to no end. Logically, it's redundant. It offers zero value to the necron force strategically. It's entire value is tactical AND largely self-defeating/limiting, which makes no sense.

    First, it's a transport, but for an army traditionally built around a phalanx or Napoleonic Gun-line that is intended to slowly advance while protected by heavy armor. Neither of these need transports. They need shields.

    Second, it can repair warriors, but runs into problems whereby warrior squads are larger than the Ghost Ark's transport capacity. Which means you can use it in one of two ways, as either a transport or a repair barge, but not as both at the same time.

    Third, it can ONLY transport necron warriors, which are the LAST necron unit you actually want to stuff into any kind of transport. You want to transport short-range or melee units. Warriors are mid-range non-melee. The only reason you'd ever want to pop a squad of warriors into a transport is to get them AWAY from an attacking CC unit, but if you do you run into the squad size conflicting with the ghost ark's repair barge issue. Also, why the restriction? Necrons DO have units you might want to stuff into a transport, assuming you're either not running a phalanx, or when the phalanx is simply supporting something else. The only problem here is that you can't. Immortals, Lychguard, etc cannot embark into a ghost ark. They can be repaired though...

    Fourth, as pointed out, Necrons have teleportation mastered. Why the are they embarking on a physical transport in the first place?

    Fifth, why isn't it open topped? When you could shoot units embarked inside an open topped transport, the ghost ark made a LOT of sense. As did running a min-size warrior squad. The ark carted them around and repaired them while they were embarked up to their max squad size, and the embarked troops helped extend the ark's lifespan by eating about half the fire the ark took. As a result you got roughly the same firepower of a 20-warrior squad, out of 10 warriors and their transport with the single limitation of being forced to split your fire because of the awesome-looking, but stupid, locations of the gauss flayer arrays. In exchange, the squad gained 6" of movement, could largely ignore terrain, and gained defenses against being charged because skimmers were usually more difficult to hit. But now it's not open topped? I'm assuming that's simply an oversight (it's additionally hurt by the total removal of rules related to dealing damage to a unit embarked in an open topped transport). They probably haven't FAQ'd it because nobody bothers to actually use the damn thing because they make no sense.

    Seriously, get rid of the ark's transport capacity entirely, because it doesn't make any sense, and let it resurrect completely destroyed warrior squads or something. Call it "Phase Out Interception" or something.

    Semi-related to the Ghost Ark, the doomsday ark sucks. Having finally seen it in a game, it's more expensive than a lascannon devastator squad, and brings less firepower to the table.

    Also, the monolith has a lot of wounds, but is simply too expensive to field with all its limitations. I mean, it's a quarter of your army at 2000 points, and is far less scary than anything the imperial guard could field for the same points.

    This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 21:53:43


    Wake. Rise. Destroy. Conquer.
    We have done so once. We will do so again.
     
       
    Made in us
    Screaming Shining Spear





    Northern California

    No offense, but could some of the problems Necrons are having be related to some players being stuck in the 7th Edition Decuri-Cron mindset and playstyle? 8th Edition is a whole new game, where durability isn't as important as melee power or mobility.

    Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me like taking Max-size units with Necron Warriors is a mistake. Necron units are LD10 across the board, and the minimum squad size for Warriors is 10. Instead of trying to max out Res Protocol potential for a single squad, wouldn't it make more sense to have two squads of 10 for the same cost? You have the same morale, can cover more Ground, and force your opponent to split their shooting or melee between the two options.

    ~3000 (Fully Painted)
    Coming Soon!
    Dman137 wrote:
    goobs is all you guys will ever be
     
       
    Made in us
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    East Bay, Ca, US

    Can someone please share a link to the results which show them ranked 46th? It's not that I doubt that, I just want to see where Grey Knights, Blood Angels, and other factions measured up.

     Galas wrote:
    I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

    Bharring wrote:
    He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

     TheNewBlood wrote:
    No offense, but could some of the problems Necrons are having be related to some players being stuck in the 7th Edition Decuri-Cron mindset and playstyle? 8th Edition is a whole new game, where durability isn't as important as melee power or mobility.

    Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me like taking Max-size units with Necron Warriors is a mistake. Necron units are LD10 across the board, and the minimum squad size for Warriors is 10. Instead of trying to max out Res Protocol potential for a single squad, wouldn't it make more sense to have two squads of 10 for the same cost? You have the same morale, can cover more Ground, and force your opponent to split their shooting or melee between the two options.


    You could, but if you go that route then why not just use Immortals? They're a little more expensive, sure, but they are more resilient, have much better guns, and are far less reliant on support units (Crypteks, Ghost Arks etc.).

    That aside, Necrons Warriors literally have 2 advantages: durability and slightly better standard guns. Do you really want to ignore 50% of your advantages?

    I mean, you can, but it seems like you'd be better off using that strategy with a different army.

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Ute nation

    To keep my suggestions separate from the issues list, here are my thoughts on improving necron offense. All of these together might be too much, but it will probably take a few of them to bring necrons up to par.

    Reduce the points cost on a heavy gauss cannons to 25, It already has shorter range as a trade off for the extra AP, no reason for it to be 7 points more expensive. Reduce the cost on Gauss Cannons to 15, which will put it more in line with the grav gun, which it matches fairly well for capabilities.

    Give doom scythes a machine spirit/gravimetric support, so they aren't always hitting 4+ with their main gun.

    Tesla destructors need a buff to be useful. I'd start by giving it an ap value of -1, and upping the damage to 2. That should should make it a short ranged twin autocannon, which would fill a mixed target role that necrons need filled pretty badly.

    The lack of special weapons in our infantry needs to be addressed somehow, we can probably use the same rule from feeder mandibles (always wounds on a 5+ even if the toughness is higher than or equal to twice the strength of the weapon) for gauss weapons to bring them some of the flexibility they are missing.

    Give doomsday arks high power blast the macro keyword, given how little we have that works well against titanic enemies, it would be a good buff for our viability against them. It would also give it a reason to stand still, because a d3 lascannons shots hardly seems overpowered on the move when a predator can out out 4 for less points.

    Give doomsday arks high powered blast a fixed number of shots as opposed to a D3. Probably 2 against targets smaller than 10 models, and 4 against targets with 10 or more models.The randomness makes it unreliable.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     TheNewBlood wrote:
    No offense, but could some of the problems Necrons are having be related to some players being stuck in the 7th Edition Decuri-Cron mindset and playstyle? 8th Edition is a whole new game, where durability isn't as important as melee power or mobility.

    Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me like taking Max-size units with Necron Warriors is a mistake. Necron units are LD10 across the board, and the minimum squad size for Warriors is 10. Instead of trying to max out Res Protocol potential for a single squad, wouldn't it make more sense to have two squads of 10 for the same cost? You have the same morale, can cover more Ground, and force your opponent to split their shooting or melee between the two options.


    Offense taken, as soon as you have to justify your factions superiority over another army be saying L2P you have left the bounds of good conduct and fair minded debate. Surely if it were a question of skill someone, somewhere, would have made it work. that's not what the dakka results show, and that's not what the results from major tournaments show. So L2p is just a cheap shot and not helpful.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Marmatag wrote:
    Can someone please share a link to the results which show them ranked 46th? It's not that I doubt that, I just want to see where Grey Knights, Blood Angels, and other factions measured up.


    I linked it six posts ago, but I guess I should probably put it in the OP:

    https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/79exy3cp

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 22:46:43


    Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
       
    Made in us
    Irked Necron Immortal




    Newark, CA

     TheNewBlood wrote:
    No offense, but could some of the problems Necrons are having be related to some players being stuck in the 7th Edition Decuri-Cron mindset and playstyle? 8th Edition is a whole new game, where durability isn't as important as melee power or mobility.

    Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me like taking Max-size units with Necron Warriors is a mistake. Necron units are LD10 across the board, and the minimum squad size for Warriors is 10. Instead of trying to max out Res Protocol potential for a single squad, wouldn't it make more sense to have two squads of 10 for the same cost? You have the same morale, can cover more Ground, and force your opponent to split their shooting or melee between the two options.


    Warriors give you a distinct wound advantage over your opponent if they try, and fail, to wipe out the squad. This is because with support from a cryptek and either a rez orb or a ghost ark, a squad of warriors will be able to negate 3/4ths of any wounds lost in the previous turn. This kind of result is more difficult with a smaller unit because the firepower required to wipe out ten models is half that required to wipe out twenty. Ten immortals lie somewhere in the middle depending on what you're pointing at them because of their better armor save, but we're generally talking about weight of wounds rather than AP values when we talk about firepower.

    One metric of an army's staying power is the number of wounds they can put on the board. Basically, if your opponent's army is mathematically incapable of dealing more wounds than you can field before the game ends, you cannot be tabled. This gives you an advantage because it means that, tactically, you don't need to worry about positioning as much. It also means you can take more risks and not automatically lose the game if you fail.

    Most armies that rely on weight of wounds to win do so by fielding hordes. Think Orks, Nids, and IG.

    Necrons are capable of relying on weight of wounds through anti-attrition regeneration of models. A.K.A Resurrection Protocols. Where Orks, Nids, and IG need to field more models than their opponents from the very beginning, Necrons can do so by making their RP rolls with big units that hang "shoot me!" signs on themselves. This gives your opponent two choices: Shoot the warriors and risk failing to wipe out the unit (which wastes a lot of the firepower you just poured into them), or ignore them and go after the rest of their army (which leaves a full block of 20 warriors with gauss flayers running around the board unopposed).

    You run max size warrior blocks because they have the best chance in the army of not getting blown off the board, and can still bring a LOT of firepower to bear.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 22:51:47


    Wake. Rise. Destroy. Conquer.
    We have done so once. We will do so again.
     
       
     
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