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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Overall, I am having a blast with this edition. That being said, I would like to see some things added to make the game a bit more interesting.

Core rules changes.
1) units benefit from cover from all terrain using the rules from imperial statuary. (Within 3" and 25% covered)
2) units being in terrain functions as written, with the addition of the bonuses from the cities of death missions (no movement grants bonus to save, elevation mitigates cover)
3) weapons that fire a random number of shots instead fire a single shot. If the shot hits, the target unit is hit a number of times equal the number of shots listed. If the shot misses, they are hit by half the number of shots (rounded down)
4) vehicles ignore infantry models when falling back, but must end their movement more than 1" away from enemy models.
5) units firing at models that are obscured (at least 50% covered) by intervening models suffer a -1 to hit. This bonus becomes a -5 versus characters with under 10 wounds. (Also, eliminate the usual protection for characters) anything that may target characters freely ignores this penalty.
6) units with the "Titanic" keyword may be targeted by ranged weapons at a -1 to hit while within 1" of enemy models
7) any time an ability occurs on a singular number, that ability is not changed due to modifiers (so a overheated plasma gun only ever explodes on a natural roll of "1")
(8) Units receive no protection from shooting while within 1" of any unit that is not capable of moving (drop pods, buildings, things of that nature)
(9) roll to see who goes first at the start of every battle round. The player who went second the last round d gains a +1 to this roll.

Faction specific
Astra militarum:
Conscripts' armor save becomes a 6+
Commisar's summary execution rule becomes the following...
"When a unit fails morale within 6" of a commisar's, roll a die for every model that would flee after the first. On a 3+ the model is not removed as a casualty"

Craftworld eldar
Wraithknights ignore enemy models and terrain for the purpose of movement.

Necrons
Any number of necron infantry units may enter the table from a necron monolith, so long as they remain within range and are not within 1" of enemy models.
Ghost arks are open topped, in addition if a necron warriors unit is removed within 3" of a ghost ark roll a d6. On a 3+ one model from the unit is instead embarked on the ghost ark. If there is no room to place the unit inside, then the model is lost instead.

T'au
Swap the benefits of one and five for T'au markerlights.
Seeker missiles inflict d3 mortal wounds on a hit, destroyer missiles inflict d6 mortal wounds.

Orks
Any weapon listed as "heavy" are "assault" instead.

That should move some of the disparities off the table, what do you folks think?

Updated

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/30 20:43:04


   
Made in us
Norn Queen






#3 is silly. You just want to up the number of average shots? By turning them into a number of automatic hits? Justify this.

#7 easier way to write this. "Anything that triggers on a singular number triggers before modifiers are applied or only on a natural roll of that number. Example: Reroll to hit rolls of 1. Anything that triggers on a range of numbers always triggers after modifiers are applied. Example: Reroll misses.

-I don't like the idea of giving factions access to units they do not have access to. If you want to use those, ally them in. It's easier then ever for imperium to ally in.

-Commisar: make it 5+. No reason they should have a moral based FNP that is better then reanimation protocols.

-Wraithknights: no.

-Markerlights. Give the best bonus first? Don't like it. Especially because that means the entire army will be getting that bonus all over the table very easily.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Justification being that several armies used to mitigate low accuracy with the use of templates. Those armies have been unfairly penalised because weapons that used to score 1-3 hits on average are now lucky to score one.

The points didn't change enough to justify the loss in capability, so I continued the translation of template weapons as they had with flamers. They will still generate hits, but accuracy will determine how often you reach your maximum damage threshold.

I do like your wording better, but the effect is the same.

They already have access through allies, this change get was for thematic purposes (why wouldn't they have air to air combat flyers?) And to help when they get their own codexes. The ARMY has to all be the same chapter to get the chapter benefits. Meaning allying them in will eventually mitigate the bonus to assault blood angels are going to have (for example) there is no reason they wouldn't have these ubiquitous options in their arsenal since they have nothing to fill that role.

They already have it better, the change I proposed would t affect most units that much, but if a commisar's killing about 1/3 conscripts trying to run away it is a lot better than just losing one.

Why "no" on the wraithknights? They are two powerlevel above regular imperial knights and significantly more expensive than most of them. They are already able to leave combat without penalty and ignore infantry models when doing so. Is the ability to jump over small units that game breaking for 40+ points? Consist their base means that they will have a hard time staying out of the 1" bubble to begin with.

I am giving the best bonus first, because nobody thought a +1 to ballistic skill was what broke Tau in the first place. Ignoring cover for two lights was.
Marker lights are the replacement for psychic powers for Tau, their army relies on shooting to be effective. As it stands they are being crushed on the table because their army isn't accurate enough out side of commanders to actually cause enough damage to compete.

Changing the table means the table is more of a help to their weaker units at lower levels and really only helps their elite combatants when maxed out. I don't think seeing more fire warriors on the table is really a detriment, do you?

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Because flying wraithknights are assaulting dakkajets and ignoring trygons as easily as a ripper swarm.

Tau are not getting crushed. I play tau and those that have adapted are doing fine. Commanders are better and more cost effective then other options. But the other options are not actually bad. Crisis suits are only bad in comparison to commanders. Most of the negativity is people who havent adapted to new tactics.

Blood angles have easy and plentiful access to fly units. They can melee most air vehicles to death.

I hey what you are trying to do with the templates. But this boosts the accurate guys too.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




They already ignore trygons, they just walk the opposite way. The wraithknight is significantly more expensive than imperial knights, both in points and power level. There needs to be a reason for that besides "psychic support" because pricing a unit based on what other units may be able to help is inherently unfair.

Tau aren't doing fine, they are being annihilated for no reason. Marker lights should mean something, and right now the only unit they help is the commander. If you are crushing your local meta, than add your wins to the general discussion forum and bring their numbers up. But as it stands them having a bad showing in two major tournaments and barely winning 1/3 of their matches shows there is a serious problem. Letting them hit more often will help change that.

As for blood angels, they shouldn't be shoehorned into being an all jump pack army trying to chase a unit that moves 20" a turn minimum. If that was how things worked Raven guard wouldn't have access either. They are marines, there are marine units that fill a niche in their army, a mobile fire support option for keeping enemy flyers at bay is thematic and appropriate and there isn't a logical reason they shouldn't have access.

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Im sorry you misunderstood. I didnt mean ignoring trygons in terms of a trygons effectivness. I meant ignoring them for movement. A wraith knight simply walks over top of it. In fact it would just step over a imperial knight too. And a storm surge.. Warhound titan... See where this is going? It being too expensive is a different issue i cannot comment on (i have little experience with eldar). But the answer isnt to throw keywords at it it has no reason to have to justify the cost. Its to cost it appropriately. With your method why not make the wraith knight infantry so it can get cover from craters and scale ruins?


I have contributed. I got tired of repeating myself. Ive beaten admech, tzeetch deamons, necrons, and nids with my tau. Most people havent learned to hang onto your deepstrikers yet. They can deploy turn one so they do and end up worse of for it. Every opponent i fought with my tau that deeostriked on turn 1 lost because i could place my units where they would be most effective. Hammerheads and devilfish have worked great so far with breachers. Im having a blast with my tau.

You play a special snowflake marine you get special snowflake treatment. That means access to units others dont get and a loss of access to units the regular sm get. Ba ard one example. The snow flakes that specialize in melee. Who have lots of access to jump packs because it gives them fly and a higher m so they melee. If you dont want a lot of jump packs why the hell did you pick blood angles?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 02:01:06



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The wraithknight had jump for the past four years, I'm not just adding random abilities I am giving it back. It could jump over all of those things before, with the exception of the warhound titan because it is large enough the base would inhibit the move due to distance, and it wasn't an issue.

Check out the wraithknight in the dawn of war 3 game. It isn't flying all over the place but the thing leaps over huge swaths of enemies for a really cool slam attack. There was no reason to drop it, and no reason to make it more expensive.

As for special snowflake marines, I get it. But the fact of the matter is they have the exact same vehicle armory. There is no reason for them to lose out in those areas.

You don't want marines to share all the generic equipment, that's your choice. It just bother me that they all have access to the same technology but some of them decided "we don't want fighter planes" or "we are never going to need an anti aircraft gun platform"

It simply doesn't make sense. Especially when you say over 900 space Marine chapters have it but these couple dozen don't.

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The wraithknight had jump for the past four years, I'm not just adding random abilities I am giving it back. It could jump over all of those things before, with the exception of the warhound titan because it is large enough the base would inhibit the move due to distance, and it wasn't an issue.

Check out the wraithknight in the dawn of war 3 game. It isn't flying all over the place but the thing leaps over huge swaths of enemies for a really cool slam attack. There was no reason to drop it, and no reason to make it more expensive.

As for special snowflake marines, I get it. But the fact of the matter is they have the exact same vehicle armory. There is no reason for them to lose out in those areas.

You don't want marines to share all the generic equipment, that's your choice. It just bother me that they all have access to the same technology but some of them decided "we don't want fighter planes" or "we are never going to need an anti aircraft gun platform"

It simply doesn't make sense. Especially when you say over 900 space Marine chapters have it but these couple dozen don't.


I was unaware of the jump. Maybe look to the diamacheron for ideas besides fly? It had leaper last edition and something new this time around.

As for space marines, their all idiots. The entire iom runs on idiocy. The dark angles are all super secretive idiots. The blood angles are all super specialized idiots. Sw are drunken idiots. Red scorpions are elitist idiots who think the codex astartes is a sacred doctrine and then dont follow it by having chaplains or whatever with ever unit. Just idiocy as far as the eye can see. The fact that a couple dozen chapters are like"Naw, we dont need those pieces of usful equipment. Not our thing" is the smallest drop of idiocy in an ocean of it.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




While that is funny (and it assuredly is!) The fact of the matter is that they can take those units right now with no issue. They don't even need a separate detachment.

So the idea that blood angels would lose furious charge (last edition) because they blood angels painted tank over there is secretly just pretending to be a blood Angel is just rediculous.

"Mephiston, let us crush those who would dare stand before us!"

"I wish I could Dante, but my heart just isn't in it today."

"I know what you mean..."
*Looks over at the the stalker anihilating a helldrake mid flight*

"It just isn't the same, you know?"

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Might not have to worry about the flyers after all, they just gave them to grey knights...

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Yeah. The indexes dont seem to mean much of anything besides a rough estinate of how the armies will play. I expect some changes to the cost of commanders crisis suits riptides and storm surges. Markerlights will probably change in some way. So will drones in general i think. Maybe they will get a rule like characters where they have to be closest to be shot so those stealth drones dont get annihilated with the ghostkeel.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Added and changed some of the options presented before, tell me what you think!

   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




Vegas

4) something does need to be addressed with vehicles locked in melee with infantry. I just can't see how 4 ork boys who have managed to surround a Leman Russ can keep it from just driving away. Maybe something like if the surrounding infantry unit(s) have less than twice the remaining wounds than the vehicle that they surround, then the vehicle can fall back, through the enemy unit, so long as the vehicle finishes its movement more than 1" away from the nearest enemy model.

9) this might give an interesting variation on the game.


Autocorrect is for light slapping nun shoes! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




An idea I've been rolling around with, in regards to transports.
If your transport has moved, but did not advance you may still disembark. Any you it that does so may not move farther in the movement phase. If the vehicle hasn't moved, then you may use the rules as written.

I think this would help a lot of mechanised lists get work done, and provide a decent counter to a lot of the more infantry heavy lists currently.

   
Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

I like all of these especially the vehicle movement fix, but I don't really like 1.
Play as realistically as possible makes things easier. Just model eye view it with help of a laser pointer, regardless of distance from the terrain in question.
So, 1 is OK just remove the 3" max.
Anyways your proposals significantly improve the current board game style.
I really like that you are trying to give template weapons template type behavior.
Bringing the realism back to the game though, why not bring templates back as well?.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/31 23:51:36


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 jeff white wrote:
I like all of these especially the vehicle movement fix, but I don't really like 1.
Play as realistically as possible makes things easier. Just model eye view it with help of a laser pointer, regardless of distance from the terrain in question.
So, 1 is OK just remove the 3" max.


I have the three inch requirement for two reasons, 1) the density of terrain on my boards would mean everything would have a +1 all the time to saves. 2) the addition of the bonus for not moving means every heavy weapons platform would be rocking a 2+ save against anything less than a krakk missile. Forcing them to at least get close to the terrain allows for people to utilise good firing lanes and requires more movement on the table.
 jeff white wrote:
Anyways your proposals significantly improve the current board game style.
I really like that you are trying to give template weapons template type behavior.
Bringing the realism back to the game though, why not bring templates back as well?.


Because they were finicky, and I actually like the new system. Then there is the. Fact that not all templates translated directly. So many get more shots for targeting larger squads or larger models that trying to make them work would require more writing than I care to bother with. My fix increases reliability and mimicked the effect without having to rewrite every weapon in the game

Thank you for the support! What did you think of my post above about transport change?

   
 
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