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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Right. Fog up......KEEP IT CIVIL

This is meant to be a light hearted thread where we can let off some steam about rules which utterly baffled us at the time. It's not meant to be for bemoaning the latest rumour etc.

So, warning out the way.....

Hive Node.

WTF were they thinking? Seriously. What? Who? How? Given how piss easy it was to take Gaunts in suitably beneficial numbers, which knobend decided to grant such a simple way around Synapse, a traditional weakness of the Hive Fleets?

For those unaware, Hive Node was a 'mutation' which boosted a Gaunts Leadership value from a pathetic and unreliable 5 to a pinnacle mounting 10. Yep. That's right. I could shoot the big ones all I wanted, and not affect the army effectiveness one tiny little bit, barring truly disastrous and unlikely set of dice rolls.

Never mind crafting your force to ensure decent synaptic coverage. Just whack a Hive Node, it'll be fine. And it typically was. And for such a truly insulting points cost to boot.

As a rule, it fundamentally broke the Tyranid dynamic. It meant broods of little bugs could do pretty much whatever they wanted with absolute impunity, allowing the unscrupulous Tyranid player to skimp on those expensive brain bugs. Who needs them when the flotsam units can justignore the main drawback to going Synapse light!

That to me remains the 'smack ma heid' dippiest of all gak rules ever committed to a Codex.

But hey. Enough ranty bollocks from your's truly....which rule utterly baffles you?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Haven't played all the editions but Mob Rule in 7th.

For reference, it's where if a Ork unit failed a morale test, they would consult a table and possibly hit themselves with D6 (or 3+D3 in some cases) Strength 4 attacks and then be considered to have passed, or fall back.

At the time, Boyz were Strength 3 with only Nobz and co Strength 4 (Warboss was S5).

Putting aside the fact that it's a random table...are you telling me that I hit myself harder than I hit my enemies?

The FAQ which said they did hit themselves at Strength 4 because 'the Orks were really fired up!' was the icing on the cake really.

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




4th corner's corner

ok i'll bite...


I have played orks since 2nd edition. I hated the old choppa rule from the 3rd ed codex. "no model gets a save greater than 4+ when wounded by a choppa". Anti-tank krak missiles would bounce off a terminator all day but take a lump of rusty metal, attach it to a stick and give it to an ork horde (4 attacks each on the charge back then) and just watch the heavy armoured troops melt away.

When people complained? They gave terminators a 5++ inv save to make up for it....................!!?

Standing with my enemies, hung on my horns. With haste and reverie, killing with charm. I play, I'm sick and tame, drawing the hordes. I wait, and show the lame, the meaning of harm. The skulls beneath my feet, like feathers in sand. I graze among the graves, a feeling of peace.
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 rhinosaur wrote:
ok i'll bite...


I have played orks since 2nd edition. I hated the old choppa rule from the 3rd ed codex. "no model gets a save greater than 4+ when wounded by a choppa". Anti-tank krak missiles would bounce off a terminator all day but take a lump of rusty metal, attach it to a stick and give it to an ork horde (4 attacks each on the charge back then) and just watch the heavy armoured troops melt away.

When people complained? They gave terminators a 5++ inv save to make up for it....................!!?
Actually they gave terminators a 5++ save because that's what they had in 2nd edition and forgot to add it in the transition to 3rd. At least I think? Or am I misremembering something. Terminator Armour used to be 3+ on a 2D6 that couldn't go below 5, right? -Quickly reads- Ah, it was because even with a -6 Modifier from a Lascannon (how the mighty have fallen!) you still passed on a 9, which is roughly a 5+ anyway.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/05 20:07:24


 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

They didn't have a 5++ in 2nd. 3+ on 2D6 added together.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Eldarain wrote:
They didn't have a 5++ in 2nd. 3+ on 2D6 added together.
Yeah but from my vague memories of the chapter approved at the time, the reasoning was that even Lascannons in 2nd edition allowed them a save (which they didn't at the release of 3rd ed being AP2 and whatnot). I could have sworn there was SOMETHING that couldn't be modified past a 5+ but I am probably misremembering things in my old age.

Still I am so happy Combi-weapons went back to their 2nd edition mode instead of being one use only.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/05 20:16:21


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

Back when the Sun Shark Bomber RAW could not drop bombs.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/518822.page



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Alaska

 rhinosaur wrote:
ok i'll bite...


I have played orks since 2nd edition. I hated the old choppa rule from the 3rd ed codex. "no model gets a save greater than 4+ when wounded by a choppa". Anti-tank krak missiles would bounce off a terminator all day but take a lump of rusty metal, attach it to a stick and give it to an ork horde (4 attacks each on the charge back then) and just watch the heavy armoured troops melt away.

When people complained? They gave terminators a 5++ inv save to make up for it....................!!?

I also didn't like this rule back then. My brother liked Terminators and I always felt a little bad about charging into them with my Slugga Boyz.

IIRC Andy Chambers said something in an interview about that being one the rules decisions he really regretted.

YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA! 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Mind shackle scarabs / Necrons with the 6th edition release.

Morale test on 3D6 for a enemy model in base contact and you hit yourself if you fail.
In addition that codex was so overpowered, after not loosing one game of some dozen i sold all my necrons and never played with them again.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Grav.
GW's "oh they're moaning about *3/4 specific MC's"
Gives weapon ability that makes all the one's that were awful even more useless.
And to add insult to injury, auto- immobilized vehicles on a 6 and a fire-rate on the weapons better than most anti-infantry stuff
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Alaska

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Still I am so happy Combi-weapons went back to their 2nd edition mode instead of being one use only.

You know, I actually reall didn't like the multi-use combi-weapons at first. Not from a game mechanics perspective. It just always made sense to me that something small enough to be attached to a bolter would only carry enough fuel/ammo/whatever for one shot.

My brother pointed out that they could just be re-loading in between shots, like they do with many underslung grenade launchers IRL. That did a lot to fix things in my head. It seems like this edition things are more abstract and rub me the wrong way at first, but with a little imagination I can make them make sense.

YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA! 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

Formations. Not even considering the ridiculous imbalances they caused...

For some inexplicable reason, THESE tac marines can jump out of their vehicle, shoot, and jump back in, while these over here can't do that, but can hold objectives really well, while those ones over there managed to steal their vehicle from somewhere AND can still hold objectives really well, and this specific trio of knights can triple the efficacy of psychic power buffs, but it doesn't work if one of the knights has the wrong weapon loadout.

20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







From Codex: Traitor Legions, the Warlord Trait Faceless Commander:


"Once per game, at the start of any of your turns, you can choose a friendly character on the battlefield that is from an Alpha Legion Detachment or Formation and has the same unit type as your Warlord. Swap the position of this model with that of your Warlord." 

This gets whacky when you end up swapping a Cultist Champion and Terminator Champion on turn 1, to slingshoot the Terminators into turn-1 melee, or when you combine it with the Helforged Warpack allowing Walkers to be Characters. What happens when a Helbrute and a Defiler switch places, hmmm?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 MagicJuggler wrote:
From Codex: Traitor Legions, the Warlord Trait Faceless Commander:


"Once per game, at the start of any of your turns, you can choose a friendly character on the battlefield that is from an Alpha Legion Detachment or Formation and has the same unit type as your Warlord. Swap the position of this model with that of your Warlord." 

This gets whacky when you end up swapping a Cultist Champion and Terminator Champion on turn 1, to slingshot the Terminators into turn-1 melee, or when you combine it with the Hellforged Warpack allowing Walkers to be Characters. What happens when a Helbrute and a Defiler switch places, hmmm?


Except non-independent characters swapping places would cause coherency issues....

Otherwise it was a really cool rule
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 niv-mizzet wrote:
Formations. Not even considering the ridiculous imbalances they caused...

For some inexplicable reason, THESE tac marines can jump out of their vehicle, shoot, and jump back in, while these over here can't do that, but can hold objectives really well, while those ones over there managed to steal their vehicle from somewhere AND can still hold objectives really well, and this specific trio of knights can triple the efficacy of psychic power buffs, but it doesn't work if one of the knights has the wrong weapon loadout.


Eh, that part can be fluffed as a "special mission loadout", wargear configured to the mission, etc. GW was really inconsistent in their application though, and quite a few of the formations were for most intents and purposes functionally useless.

My favorite piece of derpery from Khorne Daemonkin was the Axe of Hidden Bloodthirster, with bad RAW for it requiring a FAQ, because otherwise you could turn the axe bearer into a Daemon Prince, get a Bloodthirster, then turn the bearer into a Bloodthirster and get a 3rd Bloodthirster out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jbz` wrote:
 MagicJuggler wrote:
From Codex: Traitor Legions, the Warlord Trait Faceless Commander:


"Once per game, at the start of any of your turns, you can choose a friendly character on the battlefield that is from an Alpha Legion Detachment or Formation and has the same unit type as your Warlord. Swap the position of this model with that of your Warlord." 

This gets whacky when you end up swapping a Cultist Champion and Terminator Champion on turn 1, to slingshot the Terminators into turn-1 melee, or when you combine it with the Hellforged Warpack allowing Walkers to be Characters. What happens when a Helbrute and a Defiler switch places, hmmm?


Except non-independent characters swapping places would cause coherency issues....

Otherwise it was a really cool rule


The coherency rules were the least of it. What happens if you swap with a Character that is in melee? This power had no Electrodisplacement clauses and thus was still subject to the 1" rule. As written, the rule was sadly a bit sloppy.

While on Chaos:

4e Chaos Space Marines, with "Lesser Daemons" and "Greater Daemons", and Icons but no Marks. Your Marines could go "Blood for the Blood...what was our line again" as they lost their Icon Bearer to Torrent of Fire. Or that those Icons were the only way to bring sais Lesser Daemons on the board, and a unit that couldn't arrive (due to no more Icons) was automatically destroyed. Oh, and Slow&Purposeful Spawn that *had* to charge the nearest target, even if said target was a Dreadnought.

Incidentally, GW doesn't know how to do snipers. In 5e, the best wat to "snipe" characters was to frontload a lot of dakka, so wounds would wraparound. In 6e and 7e, barrages/artillery were better for sniping than actual sniper rifles.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/05 21:23:08


 
   
Made in br
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

These new cover rules. They are so whacky and bizarre that decent cover rules are the only thing I miss from 7th.

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

well for me it is 3rd thru 8th Shuriken Catapults.

What used to be the ultimate weapon in an Imperial, agents or elder list was the better than a storm bolter...the Shuriken.

then they made it a 12" range weapon that incentivized a dying race to throw their people into the face of the enemy

???!!!?????

24" range, str 4 minus to 2 to the save with a single Sustained Fire dice that could net you up to 3 shots each.

Better than any other hand gun/rifle in the game.

HOW the mighty have fallen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 01:17:46


 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets






24" range, str 4 minus to 2 to the save with a single Sustained Fire dice that could net you up to 3 shots each.

Better than any other hand gun/rifle in the game.


On a really, really cheap model that let you spam and become one of the best armies in 2nd edition.. Ugh I can certainly call that the worst rule in a sense.

4th edition Transport rules when concerning Ordnance where it had an option to destroy the transport and everything in it.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal






3rd edition Necron codex:

Phase out - you lose 75% of MODELS, you lose game.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Colorado Springs

The most important rule.

Have fun!?! What a crock. Does GW know their target audience at all?

(Dakka is obviously their target audience)
   
Made in us
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Wound allocation nonsense in its many forms: sniping by blocking line of sight, letting characters tank for a unit, game-slowing random wound allocation, or Nob biker shenanigans. We've gone through many silly variations of this.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I'd say one of the formation rules, but that feels like I'm aiming for a low-hanging fruit.

For me it would probably have to be the whole "Driver" thing. I don't think that info ever came into play in my games when it existed, and it was basically quietly dropped in later 4th edition codexes. Like, BS4 is BS4 regardless of whether or not the driver is a Space Marine or an Inquisitorial stormtrooper, and it's not like 4th edition had provisions for the driver to bail out either.

At least that one is the most useless. One of the rules that ended up negatively affecting the game was Guardian Jetbikes being made troops. A lot of people don't seem to be aware that this wasn't done for balance reasons, but to not invalidate Saim Hann armies during the transition of 3rd to 4th ed codex for the Eldar (which in the process also invalidated the Craftworld Codex). Prior to that, Jetbikes were fast attack (and why DE jetbikes remained there). Given that Wraith Guard could be shifted to troops under certain conditions, I have no idea why the same wasn't given to the Jetbike. This little booboo ended up biting us in the butt over a decade later with Windrider Jetbikes being insanely good. All because of a legacy booboo.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts Fiday






Nashville, TN

 Frozocrone wrote:
Haven't played all the editions but Mob Rule in 7th.

For reference, it's where if a Ork unit failed a morale test, they would consult a table and possibly hit themselves with D6 (or 3+D3 in some cases) Strength 4 attacks and then be considered to have passed, or fall back.

At the time, Boyz were Strength 3 with only Nobz and co Strength 4 (Warboss was S5).

Putting aside the fact that it's a random table...are you telling me that I hit myself harder than I hit my enemies?

The FAQ which said they did hit themselves at Strength 4 because 'the Orks were really fired up!' was the icing on the cake really.


Wasn't it to represent the Nob restoring order by whacking some heads? Much like a commissar killing a guy and the rest turn back around?

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.


Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.

EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.

Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
 Frozocrone wrote:
Haven't played all the editions but Mob Rule in 7th.

For reference, it's where if a Ork unit failed a morale test, they would consult a table and possibly hit themselves with D6 (or 3+D3 in some cases) Strength 4 attacks and then be considered to have passed, or fall back.

At the time, Boyz were Strength 3 with only Nobz and co Strength 4 (Warboss was S5).

Putting aside the fact that it's a random table...are you telling me that I hit myself harder than I hit my enemies?

The FAQ which said they did hit themselves at Strength 4 because 'the Orks were really fired up!' was the icing on the cake really.


Wasn't it to represent the Nob restoring order by whacking some heads? Much like a commissar killing a guy and the rest turn back around?


It works with that perspective when you get the result that if you have a character in the unit he can smack some heads around to keep the rest in line. It doesn't make any sense when your 30 boy mob who had their Nob die in a challenge start punching themselves at S4 but can only punch those space marine gitz for S3. Either way 7th Mob Rule just seemed to be designed to punish Orks more than anything because they had horrible leadership (7 across the board except for Big Meks and Warbosses), generally terrible armor, no immunity to pinning (which could also trigger mob rule rolls), and their vehicles generally fared as well as a container of nitroglycerin does in a tumble dryer.

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







As far as the worst two rules in 40k, I would say "No Premeasuring" for every edition before 6th (due to the ways people tried to game it or approximate eyeballing ranges), and how one had to guess exactly how many inches you would fire indirect-fire weapons as if 40k were some derpy land version of Battleship!
   
Made in at
Stalwart Tribune





Austria

Formations.....
Being forced to field a Knight to play AdMech properly and get tons of free equipment was just plain stupid. Or Necrons, who just don´t die..... Or riptide wing....


30k: Taghmata Omnissiah(5,5k)
Ordo Reductor(4,5k)
Legio Cybernetica(WIP)

40k(Inactive): Adeptus Mechanicus(2,5k)

WFB(Inactive): Nippon, Skaven

01001111 01110010 01100100 01101111 00100000 01010010 01100101 01100100 01110101 01100011 01110100 01101111 01110010 00100001  
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





8th Edition Reanimation Protocols made me switch armies almost singlehandedly, so I'll go with that. There are surely worse rules but the new RP is the one that has affected me the most.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 06:05:23


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Allies


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




Wales

I'll chime in with a few:

Khorne chainaxe weapons giving no save better than 4+ in the 5th? (I think) Chaos Codex. I admit I used to spam the gak out of them against marines, and I still feel bad for essentially stopping my friend from fielding Terminator models due to this...

Formations in 7th. We all know they were bad, just an idea that was VERY BADLY executed with silly bonuses and hilariously broken freebies.

Lastly, D weapons. Should have stayed in Apocalypse, got introduced into regular 40k. May they forever stay forgotten to the annuals of stupid stuff.

374th Mechanized 195pts 
   
Made in us
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Lincolnton, N.C.

rhinosaur wrote:ok i'll bite...


I have played orks since 2nd edition. I hated the old choppa rule from the 3rd ed codex. "no model gets a save greater than 4+ when wounded by a choppa". Anti-tank krak missiles would bounce off a terminator all day but take a lump of rusty metal, attach it to a stick and give it to an ork horde (4 attacks each on the charge back then) and just watch the heavy armoured troops melt away.

When people complained? They gave terminators a 5++ inv save to make up for it....................!!?


Oh I loved that rule. It made Orks playable and competitive, and they've been bottom tier ever since it was dropped. Besides the only armies it seriously effected was marines, so no harm there.

Ankhalagon wrote:Formations.....
Being forced to field a Knight to play AdMech properly and get tons of free equipment was just plain stupid. Or Necrons, who just don´t die..... Or riptide wing....



Amen, Formations should have never been a thing. Same with LOWs too.

As far as I go, while certain 'army' rules like the Grey Knights old Shrouding ability was annoying, and Necrons WBB and a lord with a res orb near a monolith = immortality army stuff was BROKEN OP.

I still say it's a tie between Run and Overwatch for me. Run just irks me, you're running flat out, so you can't shoot, okay. But you're running flat out, and can't charge? Can't even RUN INTO the enemy? You have to STOP? The hell? And not to mention the original 6 inch infantry move was accounting for a person moving at a sprint, generally firing from the hip as they went. Only the Eldar and few other units could fleet and get that extra boost of speed. (still stupid you couldn't fleet and charge back then.)

Overwatch while thematically is probably okay, was put in just to further kick assault armies in the teeth, for a game that's supposed to be about epic sci-fi sword fights between great heroes, while explosions happen in the background.

Oh well. Just my 2 cents.


My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DA:80S++G+M++B++IPw40K(3)00/re-D+++A++/eWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
 
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