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Made in us
Been Around the Block





1. The Stratagem LineBreaker Bombardment states in part: "if a Vindicator is within 6" of 2 other friendly <CHAPTER> Vindicators. If you do so, the Vindicators cannot fire their demolisher cannons this phase..." This seems dirty, and not RAI, but if someone were using some number (1-3) of forgeworld Deimos Pattern Vindicator, which has the keyword "Vindicator", but is armed with a Laser Volley Cannon, instead of a demolisher cannon, along with (0-2) other regular Vindicators, could they use the stratagem and still fire their Laser Volley Cannons? That is how I read it.

2. I noticed that Linebreaker and Killshot do not require all three tanks to come from the same chapter. That seemed like an oversight to me?

3. Can an Ultramarine player with the warlord trait "adept of the codex" allowing you to roll a dice each time you spend a command point "whilst your warlord is alive" roll to recover command points spent before the battle, such as for taking extra relics with "relics of the chapter?"
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




1. Yes it's cheesy but I would point to smoke launchers and GW's answer with them. If you can't fire because you just retreated from battle your still allowed to fire smoke launchers instead of shooting, smoke launchers don't care why you are not shooting or that you could not shoot anyways. I would not do such a thing however because that is very cheesy.

2. As long as they are friendly preds or vindicators I don't see an issue here, nothing says they have to be all the same chapter on this one that I can see.

3. This came up on one of miniwargamings beat mat bat rap episodes, the first one of the season I think, ultra vs tyrnaid. He was playing an 11 year old boy but he did let the kid roll for the point back. Can't say weather it was because he was playing a kid and being nice or not was his reason though.

I would say no though under the idea that a unit not on the table can not effect other units or things. It needs to be on the table for the ability to go into effect.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker



Philadelphia, PA

Tower wrote:
1. The Stratagem LineBreaker Bombardment states in part: "if a Vindicator is within 6" of 2 other friendly <CHAPTER> Vindicators. If you do so, the Vindicators cannot fire their demolisher cannons this phase..." This seems dirty, and not RAI, but if someone were using some number (1-3) of forgeworld Deimos Pattern Vindicator, which has the keyword "Vindicator", but is armed with a Laser Volley Cannon, instead of a demolisher cannon, along with (0-2) other regular Vindicators, could they use the stratagem and still fire their Laser Volley Cannons? That is how I read it.


No, because Vindicator, as it appears in the Linebreaker Bombardment stratagem (not bolded, upper case first letter), is the name of a type of unit, not a keyword (bolded, all letters upper case). A Deimos Pattern Vindicator may be a VINDICATOR, but that doesn't make it a VIndicator. (There are a few places here and there where a keyword appears bolded with only the first letter capitalized, but even in those cases, the keyword is still bolded.)

Tower wrote:
2. I noticed that Linebreaker and Killshot do not require all three tanks to come from the same chapter. That seemed like an oversight to me?


You just quoted it above: "...within 6" of 2 other friendly <CHAPTER> Vindicators." Killshot has pretty much the same wording. That does mean that all of the tanks have to be from the same chapter. See the note about what the <CHAPTER> keyword means and how to use it on page 130 of the codex. (The short version is that you would replace <CHAPTER> in the stratagem with the chapter of the Vindicator, and the other two would have to match.)

Tower wrote:
3. Can an Ultramarine player with the warlord trait "adept of the codex" allowing you to roll a dice each time you spend a command point "whilst your warlord is alive" roll to recover command points spent before the battle, such as for taking extra relics with "relics of the chapter?"


Is the warlord somehow dead before the battle begins?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 21:10:11


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





No, because Vindicator, as it appears in the Linebreaker Bombardment stratagem (not bolded, upper case first letter), is the name of a type of unit, not a keyword (bolded, all letters upper case).


Good point

You just quoted it above: "...within 6" of 2 other friendly <CHAPTER> Vindicators." Killshot has pretty much the same wording. That does mean that all of the tanks have to be from the same chapter. See the note about what the <CHAPTER> keyword means and how to use it on page 130 of the codex. (The short version is that you would replace <CHAPTER> in the stratagem with the chapter of the Vindicator, and the other two would have to match.)


But look at the stratagems again. There is no requirement that the tank you pick match the chapter of the other two. Only the two within 6" must match each other.

Is the warlord somehow dead before the battle begins?


I tend to agree with you, but I think some will interpret that alive means alive and in play, hence the ability doesn't turn on during list building.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/14 03:35:28


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Tower wrote:
No, because Vindicator, as it appears in the Linebreaker Bombardment stratagem (not bolded, upper case first letter), is the name of a type of unit, not a keyword (bolded, all letters upper case).


Good point

You just quoted it above: "...within 6" of 2 other friendly <CHAPTER> Vindicators." Killshot has pretty much the same wording. That does mean that all of the tanks have to be from the same chapter. See the note about what the <CHAPTER> keyword means and how to use it on page 130 of the codex. (The short version is that you would replace <CHAPTER> in the stratagem with the chapter of the Vindicator, and the other two would have to match.)


But look at the stratagems again. There is no requirement that the tank you pick match the chapter of the other two. Only the two within 6" must match each other.

Is the warlord somehow dead before the battle begins?


I tend to agree with you, but I think some will interpret that alive means alive and in play, hence the ability doesn't turn on during list building.
The fact it says "other friendly <CHAPTER>" means the original must match.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker



Philadelphia, PA

Tower wrote:
But look at the stratagems again. There is no requirement that the tank you pick match the chapter of the other two. Only the two within 6" must match each other.


If the quoted text read, "...within 6" of 2 friendly <CHAPTER> Vindicators," I might agree with you, but it reads, "...within 6" of 2 other friendly <CHAPTER> VIndicators," which indicates that they're a set of <CHAPTER> Vindicators. ("Bob and two other campers went to the pool" indicates that Bob is a camper, too. "Whiskers and two other white kittens played on the carpet," indicates that Whiskers is not only a kitten like the other two, but that she is white like them, too.)

I tend to agree with you, but I think some will interpret that alive means alive and in play, hence the ability doesn't turn on during list building.


Stratagems aren't used during list building, though. They're designed to offer players a greater degree of flexibility during individual matches. "Relics of the Chapter" is used "before the game." While GW hasn't strictly defined "before the game," we are told in the core rules that if a psyker is able to generate psychic powers before the game, to "do so immediately before either player starts to deploy their army." This would seem to suggest that a player can decide whether or not to use this stratagem (and the stratagem "Chapter Master") right up until deployment.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 08:32:58


 
   
 
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