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Made in us
Adolescent Youth on Ultramar



Pflugerville TX

Hey there! I'm putting together a Vanguard Vets squad, and I wanted to know what everyone's experience has been with grav weapons so far in the new edition of the game. Mostly for modeling purposes, I was going to give one of my vets a grav pistol, but I wanted to know if they're a good choice for close combat armament. I'd also like opinions on whether the Grav Cannon + Grav Amp Devastator squad is still a lethal choice in this edition, along with the basic Grav Gun special weapon. Also, if I'm beating a dead horse here, let me know, but please point me towards relevant topics. Thanks!

 
   
Made in se
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




Grav cannons are definitely viable, especially if you pair them with Guilliman.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

So, I'm going to preface this by saying I'm an ork player, and as such can't use either of the options you mention.

That being said, from what I can tell, grav has more or less been completely thrown out in favor of plasma. I'm not sure I've seen them even taken yet, least in person.

Plasma has better strength and rapid-fire range, and overcharging makes it do 2 damage and str 8, and many, many things let you reroll those 1s on plasma weapons.

Grav just doesn't seem to cut it anymore, between the lower strength, range, and (sometimes) variable damage, it's not what it used to be.

I suppose you won't see me crying, as 7th ed grav weapons were stupid broken. But it is a bit sad to see it all but tossed out.

(oh, and plasma weapons are slightly cheaper to boot.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/16 20:07:03


"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in us
Adolescent Youth on Ultramar



Pflugerville TX

For a Vanguard Vets squad, would it be worth giving one Veteran a Grav Pistol, or are they more of a thing you'd be better off kitting out the whole squad with? Plasma pistols, for example, are pretty good in any number because they can one-shot kill most line troops. Would this hold true for a Grav Pistol?

 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

It depends, which I think is why people like plasma.

For example, an ork nob has 2 wounds. An overcharged plasma pistol would wound him on a 2+, and do 2 damage, killing him.

A grav pistol would wound on a 3+, and only do 1 damage, as their armor is only 4+. Even if the nob did have a 3+ save, the grav pistol still has a 1 in 3 chance of not killing him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 20:09:29


"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

I dont like grav weapons. Plasma is better, more strength, same AP, more range, less points. D3 damage is nice against 3+sv, but you have to wound first, which not as easy as with plasma. And you have the supercharge option, which increases plasma strength to 8, and doubles its damage output. A captain around will pretty much prevent any blowups.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Grav has a very, very specific niche. That being T4 multiwound models with 3+ save or better. The good news is that these are pretty common. The bad news is that vehicles are very popular and they basically suck vs them. Not having to babysit, them however, is kinda nice, making them easier to use on the table top. I think I'm keeping my grav bikers as grav for now since they have the movement to offset the range, and having a biker overheat would really suck. A tactical schmoe? Not as worried.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 20:19:01


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I'm with Martel in that they don't need a babysitter which is nice.

CaptainStabby wrote:
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 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I make some lists that have zero captains. So, in those lists, plasma becomes a lot less sexy, imo. I'd over charge on tacs. Maybe. More likely, I'd just go with melta and lascannon vs heavy stuff and grav vs heavy infantry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 20:37:07


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Grav cannons are good on tacs and devs. All other grav weapons tend to be out classed by plasma imo. You won't always have rerolls, but you normally should/will.

I think plasma not being great on bikes just makes bikes worse, rather than making grav guns better on bikes. It's still an expensive weapon that isn't great at killing anything but infantry. Maybe they need to make them assault 2 to make them better? Idk.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Killing infantry is not a bad niche at all. Especially expensive infantry with 3+ saves and multiple wounds. Dealing multiple wounds at range with no chance of overheat is not a bad thing.

Again, I have many lists written up with no captains. Why should I normally have a reroll? The list default is NO rerolls. Also, plasma forces me to keep my captain, a CC model, within 6" of plasma units, shooting models.

The best of all worlds is scions, who have plasma, AND don't care if they die, freeing them from a babysitter. The game is back to the cheapest possible model with the best possible gun, ie 5th ed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/16 20:54:05


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Martel732 wrote:
Grav has a very, very specific niche. That being T4 multiwound models with 3+ save or better. The good news is that these are pretty common.


No, they are not. To be pretty common, every second to third unit in the whole game should have those stats. Thats not the case.

Martel732 wrote:

Again, I have many lists written up with no captains. Why should I normally have a reroll? The list default is NO rerolls. Also, plasma forces me to keep my captain, a CC model, within 6" of plasma units, shooting models.


Where does it say that a captain is a CC model ? I cant find it. Can your captain double the damage output of a 5 model CC unit from 10 to 20 ? No, he cant. If he stays within 6" of plasma shooting models, he can.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I consider a captain a CC model. But then, I'm rolling with BA.

I'm not saying plasma isn't better. But there exists circumstances where I'd use grav instead. Like lists with no captains or chapter masters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 21:38:23


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Grav Cannons do have their uses.

If you run into an Eldar list spamming Wraithguards then yeah, you just hit the lottery.

That said, I don't bring them when I play marines, which is less and less as time goes by.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Also if you have a source of rerolls to wound, like gman, or to a lesser extent a LT, grav cannons become pretty decent against tanks. Plus the number of shots means you can kill infantry and vehicles reasonably well, unlike most other weapons.

I've had success with grav cannons in both tac squads in a roboute list, and dev squads with lias issodon. I would still definitely bring other anti tank and other anti infantry fire, but i like the heavy grav as an effective middle ground option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 21:57:45


 
   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






I'm not sure why they got rid of the previous mechanics for grav tbh (the wounding on saving throws). It made for a unique weapon, and if they'd just pointed it correctly it'd be fine in the new edition - particularly now vehicle profiles aren't a thing any more.

Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights  
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Grav cannon is the best for sure. Grav gun is really best on bikes and even then its sketchy.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 DoomMouse wrote:
I'm not sure why they got rid of the previous mechanics for grav tbh (the wounding on saving throws). It made for a unique weapon, and if they'd just pointed it correctly it'd be fine in the new edition - particularly now vehicle profiles aren't a thing any more.


Wounding on saves would probably be too strong, honestly.

I wouldn't mind if it was: Wounds vehicles on 4+, wounds non-vehicle on 6+. Sort of like reverse poison. But maybe that's too strong, too.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine







I can't figure out why they removed the grav amp reroll wounds ability, especially with the much lower strength. It literally serves no purpose now. That, coupled with the reduced shots, killed grav cannons far more than the low strength.
   
 
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