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This is something I've often wondered. It's said that Malcador the Sigillite was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy, second only to the Emperor, but I thought that Magnus was the Big E's number two.

Also, I've also read somewhere (can't quite remember where) that the most powerful human psyker can't be rated as higher than beta level while retaining their sanity, which is why alpha level human psykers are always invariably insane and out of control. If this is true then wouldn't Malcador and Magnus have both been literally mad with power because they were both almost certainly alpha+ psykers?

Not sure who would have been stronger as I can't recall anything comparable either of them did, while everything else is either conjecture by other characters or trying to compare apples to oranges. Malcador apparently was able to sustain the Golden Throne before collapsing into a pile of dust, while Magnus broke the Imperial Webway with a stray spell. Both are impressive feats but it's hard to say which one is the stronger one.

As for whether or not they would be crazy, Malcador was always known to be exceptional for a mortal, while Magnus was not human; he was a demigod engineered for his purpose so it's likely that he had an innate resistance to it. Not that it helped since the madness is caused by the mortal mind being exposed to things they cannot comprehend, and after his ascension Magnus apparently broke anyways.

Magnus was supposed to STAY in the Golden Throne and Survive. Malcador died after hours in it.

Magnus was a more powerfull Psyker, thats no doubt, but Malcador was the most powerfull HUMAN psyker in history.

Likely Magnus, considering that Malcador turned to dust after powering the throne for a few hours whereas IIRC, the Emperor intended for Magnus to be the throne's long term battery.

Hmm. Well, that assumes acting as a battery is a measure of power.

I'm not entirely convinced by that, since Magnus was designed to fit. And Siggy wasn't. Could just be Empy used an incompatible current.
Assuming it worked of course, which isn't certain. Magnus could have fizzled just as badly.


Any psychic acts that could be compared?

Voss wrote:
Hmm. Well, that assumes acting as a battery is a measure of power.

I'm not entirely convinced by that, since Magnus was designed to fit. And Siggy wasn't. Could just be Empy used an incompatible current.
Assuming it worked of course, which isn't certain. Magnus could have fizzled just as badly.


Any psychic acts that could be compared?

Plus Magnus was designed to sit on the Golden Throne before Daemons were trying to break through from the Webway. Sitting on it with the wards still intact was probably a lot easier. Having said that I'd still say Magnus was probably stronger.

I don't think Malcador has many feats. With a great ritual he put Titan into the Warp for a thousand years in a safe bubble so it'd return fine after that period of time. He survives a Primarch hitting him in anger (Lorgar) which in fairness is quite impressive. As it stands he could sit on the Golden Throne for a matter of hours whereas in Master of Mankind a number of Psykers are used, and killed in the process, to do the same thing. Don't recall him using fighty powers though.

That said I'm not sure if that feat will endure into the Horus Heresy series (I'm thinking maybe Malcador, the Emperor's oldest friend, is the one who gets butchered by Horus instead of a Terminator or Custodes).

In Magnus the Red, from the new primarch series, slowing the descent of a large falling transport ship proves nearly too much for him. Gives some perspective to his capabilities imo.

I may have missed something but what is the Golden Throne supposed to do? Is it the same thing as the astronomicon or has that changed?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I may have missed something but what is the Golden Throne supposed to do? Is it the same thing as the astronomicon or has that changed?

The Emperor managed to use it to create an entryway into the Webway. When Magnus tried to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery he destroyed the wards protecting the human section from the Warp causing Daemons to flood in. The reason the Emperor has to stay on the Golden Throne is to keep the Webway portal shut so Daemons don't overwhelm Terra. As far as I know, the Emperor was capable of powering the Astronomicon himself but couldn't do both especially after he was crippled by Horus (hence why Psykers have been sacrificed to Golden Throne to keep it going).

It was quite a good way of explaining why the Emperor doesn't seem to do anything for the duration of the Horus Heresy until the Siege of Terra comes.

I would guess that Malcador is more powerful than Magnus in some sense, and Magnus more powerful in others.

Magnus almost certainly would beat Malcador in a mind-bullets fight.

Malcador, however, I think had more 'utility' powers as well as 'warp knowledge' (e.g. how to hide Titan in the warp where the warp was safe implies he knew how to determine if part of the warp was safe and how to move a planet).

Also, if I recall correctly, Malcador turns to dust after the Emperor returns crippled and dying from the Vengeful Spirit because he gave his life energy to the Emperor to keep him alive (in essence the first psyker sacrifice), not simply because he sat upon the Golden Throne.

By virtue of being a Primarch as well as being one of the most powerful mortal psychic beings in he galaxy, this puts Magnus above Malcador.

That being said, Malcador is the most powerful human psyker as far as we know (since I personally don't classify the Emperor as Human in the same way we don't classify the Custodes or Astartes as Huamn).

As for the Alpha/Beta leveling, I'd say this at least partially comes down to two things:

(1) The revelation of the existence of Chaos only happened after the "ascension" of Malcador, meaning that Malcador is among the few in humanity's to avoid the insanity that comes with the higher level powers that come without being part of the Adeptus Astartes or variant thereof (such as the Grey Knights).

(2) If such a psyker were to exist, they would likely be recruited into the Grey Knights or something along those lines, meaning that - assuming they survived the process - they would no longer be human and thus on a different level to Malcador.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I may have missed something but what is the Golden Throne supposed to do? Is it the same thing as the astronomicon or has that changed?

The Emperor managed to use it to create an entryway into the Webway. When Magnus tried to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery he destroyed the wards protecting the human section from the Warp causing Daemons to flood in. The reason the Emperor has to stay on the Golden Throne is to keep the Webway portal shut so Daemons don't overwhelm Terra. As far as I know, the Emperor was capable of powering the Astronomicon himself but couldn't do both especially after he was crippled by Horus (hence why Psykers have been sacrificed to Golden Throne to keep it going).

It was quite a good way of explaining why the Emperor doesn't seem to do anything for the duration of the Horus Heresy until the Siege of Terra comes.

Thanks I read Master O'Mankind and couldn't quite figure out what the psykers were for. So basically...

Before the Heresy the Emperor powered the astronomicon and the webway gate needed no protection since the Eldar (??) wards were in place.
After Magnus forgot how to send texts the Emperor powered the astronomicon while the might of his inexhaustible armies kept the demons at bay.
After they lost the impossible city the Emperor kept the webway closed while psykers powered the astronomicon.
During the fracus with Horus Malikor kept the demons at bay, the psykers powered the astronomicon and the Emperor fought Horus.
And FINALLY after the Heresy the Emperor keeps the demons at bay while the psykers power the astronomicon!

That sound about right?

I am thoroughly convinced that Magnus had greater potential for warpcraft than Malcador, almost exclusively because Magnus was essentially created to be a god-tier psyker with a body built to handle that sort of stress, while Malcador is merely extremely talented naturally (but in a body that evolution hadn't had time to make more efficient for warpcraft usage).

That said, Malcador is implied to be EXTREMELY long-lived, and had time to master his craft in ways that even a Primarch as studious and quick-learning as Magnus had not yet managed.

Given time, Magnus could (and chaos-boost aside, almost certainly has) surpass Malcador in knowledge due to his Primarch levels of learning speed, and his raw psychic potency advantage would make it clear.

But during the Crusade, Magnus was still but the learner, and had the standard Primarch arrogance: in a psychic battle between the two, I could see Malcador winning the fight like a bullfighter dancing away from a bull's charges, stabbing here and there, until the bull's vastly superior raw strength is drained away.



Re: the whole turning into dust thing, there are two main issues I have:

1. Magnus was intended to be the Throne's recipient, but the Throne was never finished and Magnus was intended to be sitting on a STILL-WARDED Throne. It seems extremely clear that maintaining the Throne while warded and while not-warded are entirely different animals in terms of the strain it places on the psyker - even the Emperor showed that difference.

2. Malcador turned to dust only when he essentially fed his remaining life force into the Emperor so that Big E could give his final instructions. Not only did Malcador survive for hours what killed thousands of psykers working in tandem, but he had enough juice to jump-start nothing less then the mortally-wounded EMPEROR. Its hard to judge an effectively untested battery (Magnus) against one that not only was bearing a load a thousand times above the standard set for batteries, but also successfully jump-started the equivalent of a Cruise Liner with the remaining charge AFTER doing so.

Put it this way: the big E is Gilgamesh, Malcolm is Enkidu, and carrot top is Gulgalanna….

I'm going to go with Magnus. Mainly because all the fluff I've read over the years seems to say that the average Space Marine psyker seems to always be stronger than their human counter parts. When they are turned into Super Humans it seems that their psychic abilities are enhanced as well which makes sense to me seeing as their mind/bodies can better handle the increased stress from using psychic powers.

So following that logic, I think a genetically created demi-god will have more raw power than an unmodified human, especially considering that the Emperor seems to have specifically designed Magnus to be a strong psyker.

I considered the fact that Magnus was supposed to sit on the Golden Throne but I don't like that to explain he's a stronger psyker. Something tailor made to a specific purpose is generally always going to be better at that specific job than a general use tool. Magnus was made to sit on the throne but, generally, he was made to also be an incredibly powerful psyker.

I might be misreading some fluff but doesn't Malcador indicate he's more than human? Can't remember which book but it's one of the short stories and he outlines that he's one of the last of his order/kind, suggesting he's a form of perpetual or maybe even one of the original shaman that helped create the Empror perhaps?

I think malcador might have been more powerful when magnus was still 'human' but definately not if you're comparing him to magnus as a deamon

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I may have missed something but what is the Golden Throne supposed to do? Is it the same thing as the astronomicon or has that changed?

Originally it was supposed to be a stable webway gate. A prototype for the human webway portals.

The Astronomicon is a purely psychic phenomenon that the Emperor does, using the energy of the psykers he consumes.

Later they juryrigged the Golden Throne to be life support for the Emperor.

However, neither of these are what the Golden Throne was originally originally. The Golden Throne is an alien artifact that was hidden on Earth long before humans existed. It's original purpose is unknown.

Thanks. Sounds complicated.