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Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

I have a ton of space marine models and am keeping up on the Primarus releases.
My primary army is painted up mostly like Black Templar.
Seeing surprisingly little in specifics on marines for army listing so I will list my points/concerns.
Need help, analysis paralysis is setting in.
Thinking of 2000 points and will get a list together based on some feedback of the below items.
Thought I would express the ideas in a bit more detail.
I will thank any who give these points some consideration.
I will now go back to reading the SM codex a couple more times.

1) Take all new primarus release stuff and make it Ultramarine to match my Guilliman big model or continue rolling them into the BT army colours?

2) Is "the best" loadout for the Predator the auto-cannon with las-cannon sponsons? That is what I am leaning toward.

3) Best melee weapon if needing to kit things out is the Thunder Hammer?

4) For my assault squad with jump packs: bare bones but with the 3 plasma pistols?

5) Dreadnaught, thinking of using him for backyard defense / protection: assault cannon, combat weapon with heavy flamer ok? Or better use with twin lascannon and missile launcher.

6) Dakka Centurions way over-costed, pretty useless for now?

7) Scouts, best uses for them? Keep hearing sniper guys not terribly good. Tempted to go to 2 5 man squads with sniper and the one missile launcher with each... or just roll into one big sniper squad. Or do you have a better use for them?

8) Devastators: 4 lascannon guys best way to roll? Hear of 2 lascannon and 2 plasma and split fire as needed.

9) Drop pods: too expensive, only a consideration if wanting to send out Sternguard.

10) 5 man marine individual squads are the way to go? Plasma combi, plasma gun, plasma cannon or lascannon or missile launcher?

11) When do you use missile? Or lascannon is pretty much the preference?

12) Yes, small squads and stuff them in twin assault cannon Razor-backs. Anything else different to suggest? 2 storm bolter Rhinos as a "cheap" ride? Why do I have so few Razorbacks??

13) Whirlwind or Thunderfire cannon?... I suspect Whirlwind... one for fun or a couple?

14) Lieutenants good to roll-out to save on bad plasma overcharge, so send them around with the reduced size plasma squads?

15) Aircraft. Stormraven best all-rounder due to machine spirit rule? Stormtalon air to ground focus mainly, Stormhawk more air to air. Preference in loadout? Twin assault cannons I assume or stick with lascannons for big vehicle / critter killer?

16) Best role for skimmers: Melta delivery? Bolter/AC or HB/HB combo?

17) Attack bikes HB best option?

18) Grav guns. Best use? Maybe sgt as a pistol for general use? Not seeing much use for these much that other weapons do a better role.

19) Land raiders. I hear the Crusader is pretty much the dakka tank of the year with the melta as icing. But what to put in it??

Anything you would suggest as an important "auto-include" in an army?
Salamanders is looking like the chapter rule of choice.

What are you all doing?

Thanks.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




1.Crusader Squad's are farrr more cost efficient than the new Primaris. Primaris marines should boost what your particular chapter is lacking.
2. That really depends on what you are using it for.
3. Thunder Hammers and Powerfists now confer a -1 hit penalty at all times but you hit first if you charge first. This can be helped by having a Lieutenant, and better yet a Chaplain around, as BT, Grimaldus.
4. This should clarify the 3rd question as well, the best load out, in my opinion right now is Power Axe/Plasma Pistol. You get that little bit of extra strength from the axe to wound easier, and if its armor is too high, welp shoot it in the face with your pistol.
5. Rather subjective because at Black Templars, you are only moving forwards.
6. Compared to Hellblasters and there 3 flavors of plasma guns, yes.
7.Sniper rifles for vector denial and being all around annoying. Give your sarg a powerfist for gaks and giggles when a nob comes to clear you out of a building and you charge him first and one shot him.
8. Missile Launchers are back in a big way, with two profiles that can fit different situations, I feel like they beat out lascannons unless you know you are going up against a Knight, big Tyranids, etc
9. Razorbacks with assault cannons(twin linked now actually means twin linked so, 12 shots) are the preferred mode of transportation as Primaris marines can only ride in Repulsors at the moment.
10. Crusader Squads are cheaper and do all of this better, for instance I would load out my crusaders for CC and have a Primaris intessor squad with stupid long range bolters covering them.
11.Preference like i said above.
12. Well since you move, heavy weapons get a -1 penalty thats kinda a moot point at the moment.
13.Whirlwind, there is a stratgem where if a landspeeder is within 18 inches of a target, the Whirlwind automatically hits that target.Gravy train ravenguard set up.
14.Keep a Lieu with your hellblasters, since they are characters they can take relics, so take Primarchs Wrath so you dont feel that useless.
15.There are no longer a limit on Missiles, so just let that sink in.
16. Whirlwind stratagem combo, or a squad of 3 with multi meltas and typhoon's acting as fast moving vehicle rapists.
17. If you're not a dark angel dont get on a bike.
18. Plasma is so much better in pretty much every situation.
19. Yes, except if you're Salamanders because now He'stan's forge father effects the Redeemer's super flamers.

Honestly the Black Templars are back in a big way, give your apothecary their new relic helm and watch as your +1 strength(Helbrecht) Extra attack on a 6 that can generate another attacks and rerolling to wound(Grimaldus) and rerolling to hit(Helbrecht) suddenly revive on a 4+.

I am doing a Experimental Battle suit Cadre that showcases each of the ranks most advanced suit, Riptide, Y'varah, R'varna, Coldstar and O'ralai as my HQ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/19 04:22:43


"Truth is like poetry. And most people hate poetry" 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Thanks for the well thought out answers.
The codex today echo a bit a strange twist from prior editions: the shooty BT squads, I was looking at things from that viewpoint at the moment.

I think I will continue with Primaris as BT.

I agree that missile launchers have great utility but most big models are at toughness 8 so S9 makes a big difference as well as the AP-3 for those LR -2 saves.
I am sure I would regret that against hordes.

Orks have been tough for me lately except when whirlwinds and assault cannons are used. So the dreadnought was a thought.

On the topic of Stormraven, yeah I noticed the missiles. Not a whole lot wrong there. Power of machine spirit makes such a difference for those weapons.

All in all confirming what I figured, I will see if the points spent on characters is worth it, which largely depends on what they are supporting.

Thanks!

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Okay, enough waffling here.
I "think" with what I have available, this is what I can field:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [102 PL, 1999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Black Templars
Rules: Righteous Zeal

+ HQ +

Chaplain [5 PL, 79pts]: Plasma pistol
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear

Lieutenants [4 PL, 71pts]
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
Lieutenant: Plasma pistol, Power sword, The Crusader's Helm

+ Troops +

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 118pts]
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
2x Initiate
Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Initiate w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
Sword Brother: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 118pts]
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
2x Initiate
Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Initiate w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
Sword Brother: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 118pts]
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
2x Initiate
Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Initiate w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
Sword Brother: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma

Crusader Squad [9 PL, 160pts]
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
7x Initiate w/Chainsword
Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Power axe
Initiate w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun
Sword Brother: Plasma pistol, Power axe

Scout Squad [6 PL, 107pts]: 5x Camo cloak
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [6 PL, 107pts]: 5x Camo cloak
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle

+ Elites +

Dreadnought [7 PL, 148pts]: Assault cannon
Rules: Explodes (3"/D3)
Dreadnought combat weapon w/Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [11 PL, 197pts]: Jump Pack
Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
7x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Thunder hammer
Space Marine w/Special Weapon
Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol
Space Marine w/Special Weapon
Plasma Pistol & Chainsword: Plasma pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 189pts]: Predator autocannon, Two Lascannons
Rules: Explodes (6"/D3), Smoke Launchers

Whirlwind [5 PL, 109pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher
Rules: Explodes (6"/D3), Smoke Launchers

+ Flyer +

Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 274pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers
Rules: Airborne, Crash and Burn, Hard to Hit, Supersonic

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
Rules: Explodes (6"/D3), Smoke Launchers

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
Rules: Explodes (6"/D3), Smoke Launchers

So, let me know what you think.
Tempted to drop the two scouts for another Predator.
Will have to read how "bad" it is to drop off units in the Stormraven... may have to use it as a gunship.

This was the latest version of Battlescribe, which looks like it reflects the codex rather than index (character vs sgt points for thunderhammer for instance).

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
 
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