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Looking for a bit of advice in kitting out my VV squads for 8ed Ultramarines. They will be running with a Chaplain with JP as well as Guilliman in the force. I currently have 20 models, but I'm not sure if I should build two squads of 10, or four squads of 5. My ideas are as follows:

10-man Squads:
2x SS/CS marines (to tank big hits from las/missiles/etc.)
2x TH marines (to add some punch, but maybe 2 is not enough?)
6x CS/Plasma Pistol marines

The argument for the 10-man squad is that it is easier to fit in more specialist loadouts and they will benefit from the Chaplain / Guilliman auras more easily. Morale will likely not be a problem with ATSKNF and Chap/Guil.

5-man Squads:
1x TH marine
2x SS/CS marines
2x CS / Plasma Pistol marines

5-man Squads are able to take more objectives but may struggle to benefit from the auras of my leaders. They are also a bit easier to remove due to not hitting as hard or having a higher model count.

I'm not sure these are the most effective loadouts, so any advice is appreciated.

Do the minimum squads.

I was leaning toward 5-man, but still not completely sold on the idea.

I was just gonna to write a post to discuss the same question. My initial thought for the Vanguard Veteran may be as follows:

All Jump pack of course
1 TH/SS, 1 plasma pistol and TH, 1 with a pair of Lightning Claw, 2 with chainswords and stormshield.

Generally my battle plan is to have two battle groups, one use Devastator / Hellblasters as core, buffed by Guilliman and surrounded by bubblewarp scouts, their role is the "anvil" and fire support. The other performs lightning strike, contains Stormraven, Ironclad Dreadnought and Vanguard Veterans and jumppack Captain / Chalpain, using the speed of flyer to let this group assault from a flank or enemy's back, and avoid enemy unit that is "too strong" with their mobility. For the second group, the Vanguard would be the core combatant.

Thus, I for now tend to let my Vanguards be "all rounder", with the above loadouts, it has 4 S8 AP-3 3D attacks hit on 3s -1, 3 S4 AP-2 rerolling to wounds, 6 S4 AP0 attacks, 3 3++ saves for just 156pts. Looks like it can handle both monster and infantry ok, and price is decent.

But I am still not sure if it is better to have them concentrate on a specific types enemy, like just take 2 chainsword each (90pts only) to shred hordes of genestealers / conscripts / bloodletters / Ork boyz, or have all TH/SS (just 195pts) to smite big monster / vehicles.

I don't know that I would go with SS on every model, simply because plasma pistols are affordable now and offer a nice punch in both Shooting and CC. I want my SS models as cheap as possible as they will be tanking the big hits. I do think I might put plasma pistols on the same marine as my TH, just to add more bit on the drop.

Pair of SS+Grav-pistols (I have terrible luck with plasma, so no-go for me), rest with SS+TH. Hits like a truck.

No matter the loadout, I always go for the Relic Blade on the Sergeant. 3 attacks is nothing to sneeze at with those stats.

I'd keep the squad small and mobile, and keep the points costs down. Max Chainswords. Lots of attacks on the cheap.

Decided to go with the smaller squads with the following loadouts:

5-man Squad:
1 TH/PP
2 SS/CS
2 PP/CS

This allows the squad to have some bite on deep strike while tanking some big hits on the SS without losing bigger points. If I feel the squad needs another TH, I'll remove one of the PP/CS marines.

I have a weird loadout because I use 7 man squads.

Sarge with TH and plasma pistol
Two guys with power axes and SS
Four guys with plasma pistols and power swords.

I have two twin squads of these and they work wonders in my list. (A given they drop with Kayvan Shrike and a Jump Pack Lieutenant) I also use a somewhat cheapish squad of 5 all with plasma pistols and chainswords.

 Kithail wrote:
I have a weird loadout because I use 7 man squads.

Sarge with TH and plasma pistol
Two guys with power axes and SS
Four guys with plasma pistols and power swords.

I have two twin squads of these and they work wonders in my list. (A given they drop with Kayvan Shrike and a Jump Pack Lieutenant) I also use a somewhat cheapish squad of 5 all with plasma pistols and chainswords.

Very killy loadout. I guess my squads are delivery systems for the TH and to tie up vehicles in CC. Not sure how it will work in practice, but we'll see.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I'd keep the squad small and mobile, and keep the points costs down. Max Chainswords. Lots of attacks on the cheap.

These are my thoughts too, and something I'm going to try out. After being a bit disappointed with the performance of a 5 man Assault Squad, I'm going to try running mine as Vanguard Veterans instead. I feel like the extra attack and leadership is arguably worth the increase on the points per model - taking a Jump Pack equipped squad from 80 to 90 isn't too much of a difference. The added bonus of course is that if I want to I can throw in a power weapon wherever I want, but I figure a Storm Shield on the Sergeant might do well enough to at least give the enemy a speed bump before they start dropping models, and a Power Sword for a little extra bite without getting too expensive.

Though I suppose that Storm Shield on one of the Marines would be a better idea instead of trying to take saves on my Sergeant and potentially losing him first, but the model looks great and heroic with one.

I think adding a nearby Chaplain on JP teally adds a lot to the potential of the squads, not to mention Guilliman. Not sure I would run them without one or the other.

I love Vanguard Vets, but I am torn how to run them. I like them as the iconic fast melee unit, but I think utilizing plasma pistols is playing to their strengths. My personal loadout is done because I play WYSIWYG, and is as follows: Sergeant with TH/PP,1 TH/BP 2 SS/CS, 3 LC/LC, 3 BP/CS. I use this unit to screen a gunline if I am running one, or else to hit my enemies backline after I draw them out. It is a flexible loadout rather than specialized, so not the best but always has a use. I can lose a lot of models before I start really feeling the hurt also. Since there are so few special weapons, and there are alot of ablative wounds, the unit also doesn't often get targeted right away, so I can use it more aggressively.

Sorry to revive this old post but I see lot of people going for the TH/SS loadout but isn't the point of SS to tank ? So the models with SS will theoretically die first. In that case wouldn't it be better to have them equipped with a cheap weapon, like PP, CS or PS ?

Yeah TH/SS is 7th edition loadout from when the nearest model to the enemy died first.

Now you can choose who dies, you want your SS carriers to be cheap and die first, and your TH carriers to be expensive and die last.

CypherF wrote:
Sorry to revive this old post but I see lot of people going for the TH/SS loadout but isn't the point of SS to tank ? So the models with SS will theoretically die first. In that case wouldn't it be better to have them equipped with a cheap weapon, like PP, CS or PS ?

Yup. I generally run a 10 man squad with Shrike. I load out with 4x dual lightning claws, 5x chainsword/storm shield and the sarge will carry a storm shield/whatever I have points for (usually a thunder-hammer). Wounds go on the chainswords/storm shields first which gives my lightning claws and Shrike a chance to murder whatever is in front of them. It's usually a suicide mission but it does keep the opposing army occupied with them for a couple rounds while I grab objectives.

Keep the opposing army occupied while you grab objectives? What rest of the army? Your squad is absurdly expensive.

What do you guys think about Grav-Pistols? My group is full of Space Marine Players, so the target has got a 3+ most of the time. I play my VV with 4 GP instead of PP all with SS, 3 TH and SS and 3-5 double CC...

Any Grav weapon thats not the Grav Cannon is bad.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:No matter the loadout, I always go for the Relic Blade on the Sergeant. 3 attacks is nothing to sneeze at with those stats.

Not a TH? Unless I missed something the relic blade costs 5 more points. So you end up paying more for less S and the variable damage. No minus to hit. IMHO they are equivalent weapons, so should probably cost the same. I’d save the points. If you are not near a source of re-rolls, the relic does become more attractive.

Covenant wrote:What do you guys think about Grav-Pistols? My group is full of Space Marine Players, so the target has got a 3+ most of the time. I play my VV with 4 GP instead of PP all with SS, 3 TH and SS and 3-5 double CC...

IMHO grav is better then non-overcharged plasma, but not as good as overcharged. So if you are going to be away from re-rolls, it might be worth paying the few extra points. But if you are sinking the points into all the fancy toys for a VV squad, you probably have a captain along for the ride. Although if you were bring a chaplain, grav might have a place.

Compared to plasma, they are a little overpriced. But that’s probably the plasma being undercosted. But they are paying for the sins of the last edition.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Keep the opposing army occupied while you grab objectives? What rest of the army? Your squad is absurdly expensive.

Assault marines, inceptors, scouts, intercessors . . . my list runs with 76 bodies which combined with Scout deployment, SFS and deep-strikes gives me pretty good board presence. I won't claim that it would hold up against shield-captain/knight meta but locally I win more than I lose.

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:No matter the loadout, I always go for the Relic Blade on the Sergeant. 3 attacks is nothing to sneeze at with those stats.

Not a TH? Unless I missed something the relic blade costs 5 more points. So you end up paying more for less S and the variable damage. No minus to hit. IMHO they are equivalent weapons, so should probably cost the same. I’d save the points. If you are not near a source of re-rolls, the relic does become more attractive.

Covenant wrote:What do you guys think about Grav-Pistols? My group is full of Space Marine Players, so the target has got a 3+ most of the time. I play my VV with 4 GP instead of PP all with SS, 3 TH and SS and 3-5 double CC...

IMHO grav is better then non-overcharged plasma, but not as good as overcharged. So if you are going to be away from re-rolls, it might be worth paying the few extra points. But if you are sinking the points into all the fancy toys for a VV squad, you probably have a captain along for the ride. Although if you were bring a chaplain, grav might have a place.

Compared to plasma, they are a little overpriced. But that’s probably the plasma being undercosted. But they are paying for the sins of the last edition.

I changed my mind since I made that post. I loved reliability with having cheapish bodies able to hide a decent that hits two times on average, but since then I've been all Chainswords. I don't buy anything but Storm Shields on occasion now.