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Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

morning Ladies & Gents,

So nationals is coming up for me in a few months and i want to get some lists play-tested and iron out what i'm going to be taking. i'm a hard core Imperialist so would like to run them even if the current Meta is Nym variants.

i've run this for the last few weeks to mixed results.

4xSienar Specialist (Tie Agressor) with LWF and TLT (2W/2L)

and (this one was a muck around but i've had 2 wins and 1 loss with it and one of those wins was against the Biggs, wookie, Jess, Rex build)

Whisper, LWF, VI, FCS, Kallus
Echos, LWF, VI, FCS, Recon Spec
Tie Shuttle Bomber, Fleet Offices, Systems Officer.

what other lists are there that's going to be competitive and give the Nym & Biggs lists a run for their money?

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

Honestly, 4 TLT ships is still effective, give it a shot, it's consistent and a right pain in the arse to most anything.

How are the Phantoms with LWF? I've half thought about doing that, but wanted to hear from someone who's used it? Not trying to hijack thread or anything.

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Honestly, 4 TLT ships is still effective, give it a shot, it's consistent and a right pain in the arse to most anything.

How are the Phantoms with LWF? I've half thought about doing that, but wanted to hear from someone who's used it? Not trying to hijack thread or anything.


i honestly hate the style of play when using TlLT. it's a slow death list.

the LWF Phantoms aren't bad. they basically become a tie fighter but with a 4 red die shot. i figured with the local meta being VI Nym the cloaking had no benefit and it saves me two points (?) but i get an extra agi whilst uncloaked and being shot at with Nym. but i need more testing with it because think i'm actually 1:1 not 2:1 so far, may of been thinking of a different list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But i do have to add about the TLT agressors, Those thing may not seem to be as tanky as the Ywing variant but with those LWF's on them it does give them a bit more longevity. if it was a Ywing vs Agressor spam i would put my money on the aggressors to win.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/30 07:06:12


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

The problem with TLTs is it works, but it's boring as heck.

If I get a phantom, I might try that out for the heck of it honestly, 3 defense dice in most situations, focus for defense, and FCS for Target Locks might not be that bad.

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







TLT leads to boredom, boredom leads to hate, hate leads to tableflipping...

Have you had a look at the PS10-11 cruise missile build? Its pretty good against both Nym and the two rebel builds that are popular at the moment and deleting low agility ships in general.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
How are the Phantoms with LWF?


Trash. If you aren't taking ACD then you aren't using the ship effectively. A 4/3/2/2 stat line at that point cost with limited repositioning ability is just not worth it, and the only time you even theoretically gain an advantage is against ships that are going to eat your LWF phantom without any problems. If the meta has too much PS 9+ stuff for ACD phantoms to be effective then the ship isn't viable at all.

As for how to win, TLTs are your best bet. They wreck 100 point Biggs and the various Nym lists, and are generally effective against all the random non-meta lists you might encounter. PS 11 cruise missiles can be effective, but they're a very binary list and that's a bad thing in a long tournament. You'll have one-sided wins that are decided on the second turn, but when you encounter something that can deal with your alpha strike you get wiped off the table and find yourself struggling to make the cut. You're just putting too much faith in being able to get the right matchups and luck to avoid the loss. And TBH, not much else is worth flying. Aces are dead in a meta full of bombs and PS 10 autoblaster turrets, TIE swarms haven't been viable in a long time, etc. RAC/Kylo + ace might work against all the two-ship lists, crippling Nym/Dash/etc while finishing off the other ship, but good luck beating things like 100 point Biggs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/30 09:38:48


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

 Peregrine wrote:

Trash. If you aren't taking ACD then you aren't using the ship effectively. A 4/3/2/2 stat line at that point cost with limited repositioning ability is just not worth it, and the only time you even theoretically gain an advantage is against ships that are going to eat your LWF phantom without any problems. If the meta has too much PS 9+ stuff for ACD phantoms to be effective then the ship isn't viable at all.


a little harsh there don't you think? they are not completely trash imo. most lists from what i've seen are running 3 attack die ships and High PS. the ACD is doing bugger all for you against that, but with the LFW Phantoms you do have a slight afdvantage in that your always rolling a min of 4 attack dice back. is it overpriced? sure i'll aggree with you on that point but calling it completely Trash is a bit of a stretch....

 Peregrine wrote:

As for how to win, TLTs are your best bet. They wreck 100 point Biggs and the various Nym lists, and are generally effective against all the random non-meta lists you might encounter. PS 11 cruise missiles can be effective, but they're a very binary list and that's a bad thing in a long tournament. You'll have one-sided wins that are decided on the second turn, but when you encounter something that can deal with your alpha strike you get wiped off the table and find yourself struggling to make the cut. You're just putting too much faith in being able to get the right matchups and luck to avoid the loss. And TBH, not much else is worth flying. Aces are dead in a meta full of bombs and PS 10 autoblaster turrets, TIE swarms haven't been viable in a long time, etc. RAC/Kylo + ace might work against all the two-ship lists, crippling Nym/Dash/etc while finishing off the other ship, but good luck beating things like 100 point Biggs.


yeah the more i think about it the more likely i'm going to be taking the Imperial TLT Spam. i just don't like the list because it's a petty way win imho.

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 captain bloody fists wrote:
a little harsh there don't you think?


Nope, accurate. They're trash. They throw away everything that is good about the phantom, in exchange for still being terrible against the things that beat phantoms.

the ACD is doing bugger all for you against that


Wrong. It still gives you repositioning options and makes the phantom less predictable. Without being able to decloak each turn LWF just delays the inevitable a bit. You still get outmaneuvered, and adding a third green die (with no defensive token stacking) on a 4 HP ship is not impressive defense. And it's completely worthless against the biggest threats to aces: bombs and PS 10 autoblaster turrets. Arguably the LWF version is even worse against Nym/Miranda/etc. With ACD you at least get to force them to guess your decloak maneuver and have a chance of winning the positioning battle.

i just don't like the list because it's a petty way win imho.


You're going to nationals, not some casual local tournament. Winning is the goal, stop worrying about anything else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/31 01:20:27


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







I remain to be convinced about Imp TLT spam, not only is it dull but I have never really found it that difficult to beat, the TIE/ag trading health for agility (over Ys) just doesn't seem to pay off, especially in a bombing meta.

Played against a list on vassal that slaughtered me every time (3 games) it had Vader, quickdraw and Sabbac (can find specifics if you are interested). Also seen quite a few quickdraw with either Kylo or RAC and they do well enough. My list for completeness;
Nym - SoT, title, chips, cruises, EM, BG, FCS, Genius.
Fenn Rau - PTL, Autos, title. 
Quinn Jast - adapt, cruise, title, chips.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/31 02:18:56


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





As much as it pains me to admit I'm not sure TLT spam is the right meta-call at the moment, between Bombs, Fair Ship, Jumps, Cruise Missiles etc

Bombs, particularly bomblets, also make Phantoms a bit of a risky call

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Turnip Jedi wrote:
As much as it pains me to admit I'm not sure TLT spam is the right meta-call at the moment, between Bombs, Fair Ship, Jumps, Cruise Missiles etc

Bombs, particularly bomblets, also make Phantoms a bit of a risky call


TLT spam is particularly good against fair ship rebels and bombs. Ordnance is their primary threat. I think a pair of TLTs look quite strong right now.

 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







Of your 2 lists Quad TLT is definitely the better of the two.

That said, if you find that list too boring to play, why not try 2 TLTs support another ship or 2? Like Deci/Aggressors.
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Building on the idea of my fellow Aussie I've come up with two lists that I'm going to experiment with
[Thumb - received_10214654155096811.jpeg]

[Thumb - received_10214654106935607.jpeg]


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Or this third one
[Thumb - received_10214654089015159.jpeg]


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







Rexlar Brath, hey? Interesting. I'm guessing you're using him over Maarek mainly because of the PS10 with VI?

I like the look of v24 & v22. Not entirely sure if they're going to be amazing or not (I don't have much experience with Vader or Brath, or with Cruise Missiles on mid to low PS ships). It'll be interesting to see how they handle in your testing games.
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

I've always favoured Stele over Rexler but with trying to get the initiative bid and getting high PS pilots Rexler is the obvious choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also not sold on cruise missiles

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/02 08:02:28


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I'd go prockets over Cruise Missile on Vader as it means Vader can arc-dodge and slip into short range without having a take 3/4 straights to maximize Cruise dice

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Vader over rexlar all day long. Cruise missiles are good on Vader, prockets aren't necessary as you're trading a 3 dice + crit attack for a 5 dice attack which hardly feels worth 3 points. Cruise missiles gives you a potential 5 dice attack from range three (and negating their defensive range bonus) which even if never used to its full potential will give your opponent reason to fly defensively.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
List V24 looks solid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/02 17:22:12


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

After having tried them for a few games, I'm also not sold on Cruise Missiles. I think they were much more of a paper tiger than we originally thought. A savvy opponent will find ways to scrap your shot. Prockets are old school... but on Vader, they usually get the job done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Sienar Specialist (17)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Sienar Specialist (17)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Don,t see the Academy Pilot as more dice to bring to bear, but really just as a blocker for Vader to get that perfect shot. Or to stop someone from entering Range 1 on your TLTs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/04 15:54:51


 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Hmm not a bad idea of a list Mathieu. who cares about the initiative bid when your ace will be out flying mostly everything.

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

It's not super fancy. Your Agressors will still need to fly smart. But if you're wise about your opening moves, your enemy might not know which target to knock out first.

My friend swears by his Intensity Vader build but it tends to suffer quite badly from a bump.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

So for those interested in results. i managed to play two games last night, both games i used the Rexler V22 List above and both games were against different Nym lists.

the first was a Nym & Emon list. won it 100 - 27. i only lost the one Aggressor.

the Second game was against Nym & Dengar. this game i didn't fair as well. i lost one Aggressor early to bombs. Rex stuck in there for a bit longer but a poor move from me saw him fall. after that i managed to get some decent shots on to Dengar and got him down to one hull before the last Aggressor fell.

i'm planning on some games over the next few days and i'll be testing the Vader list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/05 23:02:08


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Try to get at least 20 games under your belt to see if it's really indicative of anything.

Having played Nym and Emon a few times, it's a build that tends to be very hero or zero, so I am not surprised, especially against 2 TLTs.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

that's the aim. i have until the 28th of October to get something organised.

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

 Peregrine wrote:


You're going to nationals, not some casual local tournament. Winning is the goal, stop worrying about anything else.


And this mentality is the reason why I don't play X-wing at tournaments. Far too many people that think winning is everything.

To the OP: If you want to win, than heed the advice so far. Or, you can just bring the list you like and want to play, have fun, and experience Nationals as a good time. I can guarantee you that the guys that win at nationals are not having fun or a good time.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

See I'm of two minds Tamwulf. 1) I want to win or at least place in the top 15 2) I want to have fun

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Why not do both? A lot of practice with a less than perfect list can still be damn good. Look at the last US nationals, most of what Nathan Eide (sp?) and Paul Heaver fly and win with is not what the theory crafters claim to be top. A prototype pilot? An E-Wing? how about that wookie pilot that was claimed to be trash?

Basically find something you love and practice the gak out of it, hell I took a z-95 to our regionals and had a blast! Met loads of cool people and scored loads of loot (mostly AA cards) just because of trying to have fun and not being over the top competitive.

Also Captain have you tried quickdraw at all? if not have a couple of games with him, fun, competitive and bloody good.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





 Tamwulf wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:


You're going to nationals, not some casual local tournament. Winning is the goal, stop worrying about anything else.


And this mentality is the reason why I don't play X-wing at tournaments. Far too many people that think winning is everything.

To the OP: If you want to win, than heed the advice so far. Or, you can just bring the list you like and want to play, have fun, and experience Nationals as a good time. I can guarantee you that the guys that win at nationals are not having fun or a good time.


Because your "fun" is clearly better than everyone else's and we must bow to your scrubby mentality lest we have the wrong kind of "fun", also any actual evidence to back up the winners not having fun boswellox ?


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

'When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning'
Dr. Reiner Knizia

Personally, I like ingtaer's response the best out of all the advice on here so far. Turnip Jedi's response was overly hostile and defensive.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

ingtaer wrote:
Basically find something you love and practice the gak out of it, hell I took a z-95 to our regionals and had a blast! Met loads of cool people and scored loads of loot (mostly AA cards) just because of trying to have fun and not being over the top competitive.

Also Captain have you tried quickdraw at all? if not have a couple of games with him, fun, competitive and bloody good.


that's why i'm learning more to the Defender list. i've played Defenders a lot and i know their capabilities.

no i haven't. i've never really liked the SF but i could be pushed to trying him

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
 
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