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Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/the-joker/51696/the-joker-origins-film-to-focus-on-young-bullied-kid

“It’s dark. It’s like a dark Joker. As a kid, he had a permanent smile and everyone made fun of him. It’s like on the streets of Brooklyn. It’s super dark and real”.



Seriously though, who ever would have suspected that Leto's sneering, cackling, platinum-toothed moron-Joker would be the better post-Nolan version of the character?

I mean Jesus H. Christ on a fething pogo stick, an "origin movie" for the Joker is a bad enough idea on its own merit, but a Joker origin movie that focuses on Joker Junior? And even better, one that's going down the pretty fething reprehensible "bullied kid becomes the psycho-baddie" narrative path(which almost always comes with a nice big helping of "...so really didn't they *deserve* to be bullied for being a wierdo?" subtext, which isn't problematic at all )? Blerugh.

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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Hey, at least it's not Jared Leto.

But do we really need this? Like, at all?

I've always preferred my Joker closer to a force of nature. The embodiment of an ultimately uncaring world and society, where bad things happen to good people, and someone somewhere finds it funny.

   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

This is just colossally stupid on so many levels, I'll be amazed if it ever even releases.

As the man himself said, 'If I have to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice', so the very idea of a Joker Origin Story is problematic... not necessarily impossible but definitely incompatible with the route this film seems to be taking. You can do something in the vein of Arkham Origins, where the 'origin story' is not where the Joker came from but instead his first meeting with Batman, where he goes from flamboyant crime boss to something altogether more evil and important. You could do something like Gotham has done with Jerome, where it's never explicitly stated he's the young Joker and there's multiple ways that story could play out*; maybe he is the Joker after all, maybe he inspires him, maybe he's just one symptom of the madness that's plaguing Gotham city.

But definitively saying 'this is the Joker as a kid, this guy WILL become the Joker' just defeats the purpose of the entire character. He is a mystery, he is an quantifiable force, hell, as per the latest reboot he could be 3 different guys entirely. The point is, the less we know about him, the better he is as a character. The Joker doesn't come from anywhere, he just is and the further you get from that, the more you're missing the point.

At least it (presumably) exists outside the actual DC universe so we can let it quietly fail in the corner and not worry about the knock-on consequences for any other films.



*(no Series 3 spoilers please! Us in the UK only get it today)

 
   
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"Now that the accident of Wonder Woman is out the way can DC get back to making the critically acclaimed, popular movies with the well chosen cast and behind the scenes crew that everyone knows will put the dismal Marvel movies in their place?"


... is that what they think we're saying?
   
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

I'm not sure anyone is clamoring for this, but good people are involved, and that's kinda the point. Post-JL (and assuming that JL isn't a disaster), it appears that the DCEU will be much looser, and WB will focus more on individual character, director-driven films. That's really the studio's thing anyway. Matt Reeves' film(-s?) is a perfect example...technically a DCEU film, but it's not going to be full of references and setups for other films the way the MCU movies do it.

So I think we can expect more loosely DCEU films, and also other DC films that explore ideas and stories that aren't right for the DCEU. Note that there were rumors that WB is also eyeing properties like Red Son for film treatments. So if it helps you to think of the Joker origin as an Elseworlds story, have at it, because that's kind of what it is.

Overall, I think this is a much more honest and realistic approach for WB...the studio-driven, Kevin Feige puppet master thing just isn't their personality, and they were probably never going to mimic Marvel's formula successfully.


I have a hunch that Man of Steel 2 is in the hopper somewhere too, but they're waiting until after JL to announce it. Just like I think Affleck is almost certainly done with Batman but waiting until the JL publicity is over to make that public. Note that the Flash movie -- if it happens -- is now subtitled 'Flashpoint', so that's WB's opportunity to insert Matt Reeves' Batman actor in place of Affleck...should that even be needed. It probably wouldn't except in the case of a JL sequel, and who knows if that's going to happen.


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UK

I seriously doubt Affleck is going anywhere. He's vehemently denied any suggestion that he's leaving, even stated that he's fully committed for a trilogy plus spin-offs at one point. I think we'll see a different Batman in Flashpoint, but only because that's in the source material they're working from. After that, Affleck will almost certainly return for more Batman/JL stuff.

 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 Paradigm wrote:
I seriously doubt Affleck is going anywhere. He's vehemently denied any suggestion that he's leaving, even stated that he's fully committed for a trilogy plus spin-offs at one point. I think we'll see a different Batman in Flashpoint, but only because that's in the source material they're working from. After that, Affleck will almost certainly return for more Batman/JL stuff.

We'll definitely see a different Batman in "Flashpoint"--purportedly it's going to be Jeffrey Dean Morgan, since he played Thomas Wayne in Batman v. Superman.
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Paradigm wrote:
I seriously doubt Affleck is going anywhere. He's vehemently denied any suggestion that he's leaving, even stated that he's fully committed for a trilogy plus spin-offs at one point. I think we'll see a different Batman in Flashpoint, but only because that's in the source material they're working from. After that, Affleck will almost certainly return for more Batman/JL stuff.


Wait and see. There's consistent smoke around this, including from his own brother. But BA would *never* say anything about it in the lead-up to JL. It'd be a PR mess. He's only signed for one more movie, and WB would almost certainly not hold him to it in order to keep him in the fold as a director. That news that went around about him signing for an additional 3 films was from a single random blogger and was never confirmed by any reputable reporter. Remember that he was absolutely, positively 100% committed to directing a Batman film...until a couple weeks later when he wasn't. Seems like his heart just isn't in it, to be honest.

Plus don't you think that Reeves would want to start fresh, using the actor who fit HIS vision?


In other DC news, the Shazam director recently released a concept sketch:

Spoiler:


Seems like kind of a funny guy given his horror movie roots. He's also doing daily tracking how many cans of Coke he drinks as he works on the film.

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 Yodhrin wrote:
the pretty fething reprehensible "bullied kid becomes the psycho-baddie" narrative path
This.

There seems to be a problem in Hollywood when it comes to writing engaging villains. Instead of villains, we get anti-heroic secondary protagonists. Examples are Kylo Ren, Director Krennic, David (Prometheus and Covenant). Making a Joker Origins picture seems like the natural extension of the inability to write bad guys as antagonists - just give them their own movies, in which they are the primary protagonists.

Then you need a trick to make them sympathetic. A story about a kid becoming a homicidal psychopath because he got bullied is pandering to some very dark fantasies. Remember when movies were about heroic characters overcoming adversity to become better people?

   
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Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

I thought the whole point of the Joker was that he wasn't supposed to have an origin story. I guess they have kind of stuck one on him occasionally, but FFS this is stupid. Before you even get to the sad crap they chose for the story, this is stupid. Then you add on "because he was weird and bullied" and you have another layer of stupid attached to it. I don't think DC has had a run of more than two good movies in a row.

 Manchu wrote:
A story about a kid becoming a homicidal psychopath because he got bullied is pandering to some very dark fantasies. Remember when movies were about heroic characters overcoming adversity to become better people?


Ya know, isn't it basically the plot to Heathers?

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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Quite happy with the Joker story in Batman - the decent ie pre Nolan one by Mr Burton.

Heath Ledger was pretty good, Not Jack good, but not bad and on a par with Leto.

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 gorgon wrote:
 Paradigm wrote:
I seriously doubt Affleck is going anywhere. He's vehemently denied any suggestion that he's leaving, even stated that he's fully committed for a trilogy plus spin-offs at one point. I think we'll see a different Batman in Flashpoint, but only because that's in the source material they're working from. After that, Affleck will almost certainly return for more Batman/JL stuff.


Wait and see. There's consistent smoke around this, including from his own brother. But BA would *never* say anything about it in the lead-up to JL. It'd be a PR mess. He's only signed for one more movie, and WB would almost certainly not hold him to it in order to keep him in the fold as a director. That news that went around about him signing for an additional 3 films was from a single random blogger and was never confirmed by any reputable reporter. Remember that he was absolutely, positively 100% committed to directing a Batman film...until a couple weeks later when he wasn't. Seems like his heart just isn't in it, to be honest.

Plus don't you think that Reeves would want to start fresh, using the actor who fit HIS vision?


In other DC news, the Shazam director recently released a concept sketch:

Spoiler:


Seems like kind of a funny guy given his horror movie roots. He's also doing daily tracking how many cans of Coke he drinks as he works on the film.

https://www.instagram.com/ponysmasher/


Forget switching actors between different films for Batman, I heard they couldn't even manage to have one actor play Captain Marvel for the duration of a single movie but will actually have Two!

 
   
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For some reason, your comment spurred a horrible mental image of one actor playing both CM and Billy, with that actor being Adam Sandler. *shudder*

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Urgh.

Wake me up when Gotham City Sirens happens.
   
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SoCal

Does this mean we can move forward with my Wolverine origins movie? It's about the budgeting committee that funded Weapon X, starring Adam Sandler and Olivia Munn.

   
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UK

 Spinner wrote:
Urgh.

Wake me up when Gotham City Sirens happens.


Good call is that still a possibility?

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"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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Southeastern PA, USA

 Spinner wrote:
Urgh.

Wake me up when Gotham City Sirens happens.


Are you serious, or was that meant ironically?

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As far as I know it's still in development, and it was entirely serious! I'm not interested in a Joker origin movie, much less this Joker origin movie. He's one of the all-time great villains, but he doesn't need this kind of backstory - his whole purpose is as a dark (bright?) mirror of Batman, and that's cheapened if you learn all about his troubled childhood. The most I think you'd possibly need is his first impression of Batman, and even that's less powerful than Batman's first encounter with him.

I'd be quite happy to see a Harley/Ivy/Catwoman teamup with Margot Robbie, though!
   
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 Spinner wrote:
As far as I know it's still in development, and it was entirely serious! I'm not interested in a Joker origin movie, much less this Joker origin movie. He's one of the all-time great villains, but he doesn't need this kind of backstory - his whole purpose is as a dark (bright?) mirror of Batman, and that's cheapened if you learn all about his troubled childhood.

I dunno, I think Bane is the dark mirror of Batman. He's the one with the terrible childhood who rises above it (to become a villain but still). He has the martial combat combined with the great intelligence.

The Joker is the guy who broke after one bad day. Ultimately he's a pitiable character. The man who broke from hardship, whereas Batman used it to become strong and good and Bane used it to become strong and evil.

   
Made in gb
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UK

 Spinner wrote:
As far as I know it's still in development, and it was entirely serious! I'm not interested in a Joker origin movie, much less this Joker origin movie. He's one of the all-time great villains, but he doesn't need this kind of backstory - his whole purpose is as a dark (bright?) mirror of Batman, and that's cheapened if you learn all about his troubled childhood. The most I think you'd possibly need is his first impression of Batman, and even that's less powerful than Batman's first encounter with him.

I'd be quite happy to see a Harley/Ivy/Catwoman teamup with Margot Robbie, though!


Indeed - much more interesting. Joker can have a cameo in their film if need be.

Wonder Woman is sky high above the other DC films pf the last twenty Plus years and Margot was one of better things about Suicide Squad so lets get it started!

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

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Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Spinner wrote:
Urgh.

Wake me up when Gotham City Sirens happens.


You could travel to another star before you'd have to wake up from that cryosleep - GCS is done for, its spot on the WB slate has been taken by the other Joker movie that's being planned featuring Joker & Harley as a double act.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
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"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
 Spinner wrote:
As far as I know it's still in development, and it was entirely serious! I'm not interested in a Joker origin movie, much less this Joker origin movie. He's one of the all-time great villains, but he doesn't need this kind of backstory - his whole purpose is as a dark (bright?) mirror of Batman, and that's cheapened if you learn all about his troubled childhood.

I dunno, I think Bane is the dark mirror of Batman. He's the one with the terrible childhood who rises above it (to become a villain but still). He has the martial combat combined with the great intelligence.

The Joker is the guy who broke after one bad day. Ultimately he's a pitiable character. The man who broke from hardship, whereas Batman used it to become strong and good and Bane used it to become strong and evil.



I can see an argument for Bane being an evil equivalent of Batman, but Joker's more his evil opposite. He's bright and colorful as opposed to dark and brooding, he uses fun and cheerful imagery to commit mass murder while Bats uses dark imagery to strike fear into villains, he's mercurial and impulsive while Batman is rigidly controlled and calculating. And usually, Batman's origin is everywhere (how many times have we seen Martha Wayne's pearls bounce across the pavement?) whereas the Joker's is a mystery.

 Yodhrin wrote:
 Spinner wrote:
Urgh.

Wake me up when Gotham City Sirens happens.


You could travel to another star before you'd have to wake up from that cryosleep - GCS is done for, its spot on the WB slate has been taken by the other Joker movie that's being planned featuring Joker & Harley as a double act.


Don't tell me thaaaaat...
   
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Well if Lego Batman taught us anything, it's that the joker is Batman's nemisis and soul buddy. Best Batman evah!

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Three words that never need to be put together:

"Joker Origin Movie"


What are they doing at WB?

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Meth.
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Yodhrin wrote:
GCS is done for, its spot on the WB slate has been taken by the other Joker movie that's being planned featuring Joker & Harley as a double act.
Well, this week it has. That could change next week. And then the week after that. And then the week after that.

I mean, these people are doing mother fething Flashpoint as the first Flash movie. As I've said before, that's like starting the MCU with Iron Man 3.

They're trying to fly before they can crawl, and it's hurting every project they do.

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Southeastern PA, USA

I think everything after Aquaman, Shazam, and Reeves' Batman film is probably up in the air until the returns for JL are in. That's just the reality of the state of the whole enterprise even with the success of WW.

But if JL is received positively, I don't see the issue with a DCEU that's a little more mass market/kid-friendly/etc. and other one-off films under a separate imprint where directors can explore whatever (and the separate imprint is apparently coming per recent reports). As I said earlier, it's almost exactly the same concept as the Elseworlds line.

In other news, Joss Whedon has a writing credit on JL, which I believe means that he's responsible for at least 33% of it. So there's more going on than standard reshoots. For people who don't like Snyder's approach, this is probably a good sign.


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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does this mean we can move forward with my Wolverine origins movie? It's about the budgeting committee that funded Weapon X, starring Adam Sandler and Olivia Munn.


I would watch this before I would watch a Joker Origin Movie. Actually, I would watch this before I would watch a Jared Leto Joker movie. Suicide Squad was a turd taco.
   
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Burtucky, Michigan

An origin story for the Joker..........no god please no!! And I seriously hope the OP is just trolling with the part about a young kid that always smiles....I just....uhg!
   
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Norwalk, Connecticut

We have an origins story for Joker. It involves a red metal dome on his head, a vat of acid, and a bad day. Sometimes. But there's no proof it's real. And there is belief Batman kills him at the end of the story. And currently in DC lore, there may be "three" different Jokers running around. So having an actual "this is it" origins story is spitting all over the character.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

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