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Hmm. Perhaps Carrie Fisher's death had something to do with the script issues? IX was supposed to be "the Leia one" of the new trilogy IIRC so I imagine it needed some fairly substantial rewrites and that sounds like a ready source of conflict.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
In all honesty I didn't have much faith in this director. I didn't like Jurassic World, and his other movies didn't do much for me. The end sequence of JW with the dinosaur fight showdown was one of the most OTT ridicuous things I had seen that entire year. So all this gets from me is a shrug of the shoulders. Only thing that sucks is it might get delayed a bit.
To be honest, I'm still expecting the Han Solo movie to be bumped back to Chrimbo.
For me, it just makes sense to have Star Wars take Christmas, given their Marvel stable more or less has the summer season sewn up tighter than a duck's bottom. Why risk cannibalising your own ticket sales?
And on a side note....remember, UK based Star Wars Nerds. 13th December 2017 is the last time you can binge watch all existing Star Wars movies. Because we get The Last Jedi on the 14th!
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: To be honest, I'm still expecting the Han Solo movie to be bumped back to Chrimbo.
For me, it just makes sense to have Star Wars take Christmas, given their Marvel stable more or less has the summer season sewn up tighter than a duck's bottom. Why risk cannibalising your own ticket sales?
And on a side note....remember, UK based Star Wars Nerds. 13th December 2017 is the last time you can binge watch all existing Star Wars movies. Because we get The Last Jedi on the 14th!
I'm trying to schedule a complete binge - episode 1, episode 2, Clone Wars, The Clone Wars, Episode 3, Rebels, Rogue 1, episodes 4-7, then off to the cinema.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: To be honest, I'm still expecting the Han Solo movie to be bumped back to Chrimbo.
For me, it just makes sense to have Star Wars take Christmas, given their Marvel stable more or less has the summer season sewn up tighter than a duck's bottom. Why risk cannibalising your own ticket sales?
And on a side note....remember, UK based Star Wars Nerds. 13th December 2017 is the last time you can binge watch all existing Star Wars movies. Because we get The Last Jedi on the 14th!
I'm trying to schedule a complete binge - episode 1, episode 2, Clone Wars, The Clone Wars, Episode 3, Rebels, Rogue 1, episodes 4-7, then off to the cinema.
I highly recommend the amended Machete Order - Rebels, Rogue One, Ep4, Ep5, Ep2, CW if you like, Ep3, Ep6, Ep7. Machete is less important for repeat viewings than it is when introducing someone new to the franchise, but I still prefer it for repeat viewings because recontextualising Anakin's stuff as an expository interlude in Luke's story makes him much less annoying as does missing out the entirely superfluous Ep1, and the "double downer" you get from 5&3 makes the resolution of 6 much better IMO.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
AndrewGPaul wrote: Missing out Episode 1 is rather against the point of thw whole exercise; I've not actually seen it since 1999 and I fancy trying it again.
As you like, but it really is almost entirely superfluous - all of the plots and characters in it either get resolved/take no further part in the story, or are reintroduced - often in a more sympathetic/interesting way - in Ep2.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
I think they jumped the gun on picking directors so early.
The only thing that worries me about this trilogy is the rapid development time frame. LotR could be fast because it just needed revision. They have a very short timetable to set the script up and start writing.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
JJ has taken up the torch. He's also writing again. I wonder which previous Star Wars stories he'll plagiarize for this one? Don't forget his Mary Sue. I'm sure she'll be even more over the top in order to one-up TFA. She'll still have the same facial expression the whole movie, I'm sure.
Breotan wrote: JJ has taken up the torch. He's also writing again. I wonder which previous Star Wars stories he'll plagiarize for this one? Don't forget his Mary Sue. I'm sure she'll be even more over the top in order to one-up TFA. She'll still have the same facial expression the whole movie, I'm sure.
The Force awakens was an awful remake of ANH, so what are we looking at now?
Return of the return of the Jedi?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/12 18:12:53
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Breotan wrote: JJ has taken up the torch. He's also writing again. I wonder which previous Star Wars stories he'll plagiarize for this one? Don't forget his Mary Sue. I'm sure she'll be even more over the top in order to one-up TFA. She'll still have the same facial expression the whole movie, I'm sure.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: The Force awakens was an awful remake of ANH, so what are we looking at now?
Return of the return of the Jedi?
Do you have a problem with the way Abrams directed the movie? It sounds to me more like you have a problem with the way it was written.
I have a huge problem with his direction. He has no idea how to pace a film, gives scenes gravitas, establish a tone, or bring out the texture of a character. The best description I've heard is that JJ's a cargo cult film maker.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/12 20:10:54
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I have a huge problem with his direction. He has no idea how to pace a film, gives scenes gravitas, establish a tone, or bring out the texture of a character. The best description I've heard is that JJ's a cargo cult film maker.
Breotan wrote: JJ has taken up the torch. He's also writing again. I wonder which previous Star Wars stories he'll plagiarize for this one? Don't forget his Mary Sue. I'm sure she'll be even more over the top in order to one-up TFA. She'll still have the same facial expression the whole movie, I'm sure.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: The Force awakens was an awful remake of ANH, so what are we looking at now?
Return of the return of the Jedi?
Do you have a problem with the way Abrams directed the movie? It sounds to me more like you have a problem with the way it was written.
I have a huge problem with his direction. He has no idea how to pace a film, gives scenes gravitas, establish a tone, or bring out the texture of a character. The best description I've heard is that JJ's a cargo cult film maker.
I don't mind his direction too much, but the plot and characters were awful.
And Han Solo's death made no sense. I'm not some bitter fan moaning about it, or raking over old coals, but from a purely plot point of view, Solo's death made no sense, because it totally invalidated all the hard struggles he went through in previous films. The happy ending at the end of ROTJ is rendered pointless.
He should never have been in that film, or had I been in charge, he would have survived, but symbolically handed over the Falcon's keys to the next generation and walked off into the sunset.
That's what I would have done.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I have a huge problem with his direction. He has no idea how to pace a film, gives scenes gravitas, establish a tone, or bring out the texture of a character. The best description I've heard is that JJ's a cargo cult film maker.
Okay, Scorsese.
Everyone says Rey is the Mary Sue, but when you think about it, does it feel like any of his characters actually earned anything, or did they just hit the marks and notes at their appointed times? That's how it felt to me. the plot was weak, the stakes intangible, the rewards a foregone conclusion. And that's not even going into his distracting ignorance of scale, physical, temporal and emotional.
Breotan wrote: JJ has taken up the torch. He's also writing again. I wonder which previous Star Wars stories he'll plagiarize for this one? Don't forget his Mary Sue. I'm sure she'll be even more over the top in order to one-up TFA. She'll still have the same facial expression the whole movie, I'm sure.
When it was first announced that there would be a new Star Wars trilogy in the near future I was elated! Then I heard that JJ Abrams was going to direct and write the first movie and the first thing that popped into my head was: "It's just going to be an unnecessary rehash of ANH with an even bigger Death Star." A few years later my fears were confirmed. I didn't even watch it until it came out on DVD: A DVD that I borrowed from a friend. Not only was the movie everything I dreaded it to be, it also managed to take a huge dump on all the accomplishments of the heroes of the original trilogy and, retroactively, of Rogue One. Then again I didn't expect anything better than the guy who gave us the Star trek reboot.
My interest was very low for The Last Jedi as the well was, for me, already poisoned and now it's non-existent.
The Force Awakened was the last time I voluntarely suffered through a JJ Abrams film.
Is not the whole point that their victory was relatively fleeting, and peace can't be restored to an entire galaxy that easily?
The new tie-in books help to flesh out the gap very nicely. Bloodline is superb, but Aftermath are great stories poorly written (it's the author's prose I struggled with).
How does one continue Star Wars without rendering the victory at Endor the end of the beginning? The old EU quickly became awful and unreadable. Just one threat after another after another after another.
To me, The Force Awakens just makes narrative sense. Leia was raised in the rebellion, and can never quite rest. Han was a rogue before he met Leia. Without the same need for his derring-do, he becomes listless and goes back to what he knows. Luke clearly bites off more than he can chew in attempting to refound the Jedi order. He wasn't exactly a proper Jedi Knight at the end, let alone a Master capable of taking on one Padawan learner.
And let's not forget. We've seen but a third of this story so far. One episode out of three. The tale isn't done, so perhaps now isn't the time to write it off?
This isn't the Prequels, where we knew how things had to end, including for individual characters. There, we were able to walk out of Phantom Menace wondering 'how the hell are they going to fit the rest of Vader's story in?'. I distinctly remember feeling they'd have to end Episode II with Padmé already pregnant. But they didn't even do that. Hence, Anakin's fall fell flat. They didn't leave the time to flesh out his flaws as a Jedi. Well, at least until Clone Wars really filled in the many, many blanks,
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Hopefully JJ doesn't undo what Rian accomplishes in TLJ. The only good thing is at least this trilogy may be a bit cohesive in its "feel" for better or worse. Also if I see another death star or a death star fleet then i'm beyond finished.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/12 22:10:37
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Is not the whole point that their victory was relatively fleeting, and peace can't be restored to an entire galaxy that easily?
The new tie-in books help to flesh out the gap very nicely. Bloodline is superb, but Aftermath are great stories poorly written (it's the author's prose I struggled with).
How does one continue Star Wars without rendering the victory at Endor the end of the beginning? The old EU quickly became awful and unreadable. Just one threat after another after another after another.
Yeah I have to say "the sequel rendered the happy ending meaningless" is one of the weirdest things I've ever read as it pertains to TFA.
It's a sequel, and honestly I think I appreciate Solo dying the way he did a lot more than having him ride off the set. That's the Han who existed before Episode IV. The one who didn't give a gak about anyone but himself. The Han we saw die is the Han who walked out of those first three films a better human being and a better hero. He died trying to save someone he loved, something he didn't seem capable of in his younger years.
Han dying didn't invalidate anything. It validated a life's worth of growth.
As for JJ, I think people just want to hate on him. I feel this way about his work in Star Trek and in Star Wars. The only complaint I can level against him is that he habitually drags around a pose of guys who just aren't very good at what they're doing, namely Damon Lindelof who I think is a slip shot writer. JJ is okay as a writer, but he's definitely a better director than writer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/12 23:29:22
LordofHats wrote: Yeah I have to say "the sequel rendered the happy ending meaningless" is one of the weirdest things I've ever read as it pertains to TFA.
But it's true. At the end of the original trilogy the Rebel Alliance was ascendant and the Empire was shattered. That the Imperial Remnant still has the capacity to build the Starkiller Base - a doomsday weapon even bigger and more destructive than the Death Star - undermines this victory.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
LordofHats wrote: Yeah I have to say "the sequel rendered the happy ending meaningless" is one of the weirdest things I've ever read as it pertains to TFA.
But it's true. At the end of the original trilogy the Rebel Alliance was ascendant and the Empire was shattered. That the Imperial Remnant still has the capacity to build the Starkiller Base - a doomsday weapon even bigger and more destructive than the Death Star - undermines this victory.
It's a sequel. The victory was doomed to be undermined.
It's a pretty authentic conflict too. Empires don't just keel over cause you won a battle. Endor isn't even the decisive battle of the Galactic Civil War anymore. Jakku is. Part of the background now is that the Rebels declared victory and stopped fighting their enemy, so it's not really shocking that some remnant group managed to recover its strength and build some new super weapon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/13 03:36:31
Just because a lot of stupid things are now part of the background, it doesn't make them any less stupid. Yes, the fact of a sequel must undermine the OT's happy ending to some degree by its very existence, but it didn't need to render our childhood heroes into Neville Chamberlains, cowardly idiots with their heads n the sand, or pathetic has-beens failing to keep one step ahead of fifth-tier thugs. When the sequel fails to add anything new, it makes the heroes' previous efforts look Sysiphean and pointless.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: but it didn't need to render our childhood heroes into Neville Chamberlains, cowardly idiots with their heads n the sand, or pathetic has-beens failing to keep one step ahead of fifth-tier thugs.
?
Leia is the only Rebellion leader (shown thus far anyway) who recognizes that the remnants of the Empire are still an ongoing threat and works with an organization directly opposing them.
Han went back to do the same thing he was doing before, which is believable I guess. He's a better person, not a philanthropist. Personally I thought it was amusing that he lost the ship he won gambling while gambling EDIT: Suppose I'm a little disappointed that "good luck" is no longer a form of extremely minor force sensitivity. That was a cool bit.
And you'd be pretty depressed to if your attempt to breath new live in an order of mystics ended in horrible failure. The first trailer for the Last Jedi was a pretty self aware commentary on the state of the Jedi in the Star Wars universe, and I appreciate that they're going to take a stab at it in this timeline as opposed to the EU where the subject was always handwaved away. Well up until the post Cadecus bits of the old EU anyway, but by then everything had become so dumb
When the sequel fails to add anything new, it makes the heroes' previous efforts look Sysiphean and pointless.
This is the Star Wars universe. In every iteration the war between light and dark just goes on no matter what anyone does I don't like jolly endings where killing the evil wizard in his space castle means no one, especially the heroes, ever has to have problems ever again. That's silly, and it certainly seems to be a pivotal part of the Last Jedi if the trailers are accurate that things did not go smoothly just cause the Emperor bit the bucket. They won a war. They're not perfect people who will never ere.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/13 04:34:25
Han Solo's death may as well have come with flashing lights. You could see it coming a mile away. Hell, even before the script was written, and even before I got into a car, drove to the cinema, bought a ticket, took a seat, and started watching, I knew it was going to happen.
Very poor scripting.
As for the tie in novels, the film should have explained the backstory, not the novels. It's like buying a car and then discovering the steering wheel is an optional extra!
The sad truth is that Hollywood could film a dumpster fire, stick a Star Wars label on it, and it would still make money.
That's what western culture has been reduced too!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
How much did we know of Boba Fett before the comics and books fleshed him out?
How much about Jabba?
How much about Palpatine? We didn't even know his surname was Palpatine until much later, having only been referred to as The Emperor, Master, My Master etc.
Obi-Wan? Much the same.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
How much did we know of Boba Fett before the comics and books fleshed him out?
How much about Jabba?
How much about Palpatine? We didn't even know his surname was Palpatine until much later, having only been referred to as The Emperor, Master, My Master etc.
Obi-Wan? Much the same.
It might not be popular in these parts, but Boba Fett has to be one of the most overrated and useless characters in the history of film and pop culture.
As for Jabba, we didn't need a backstory because the here and now of the film told you all you needed to know about him.
People can't pay him money? They flee for their lives from the hitmen sent after them. That tells you he's powerful and not afraid of putting somebody in the morgue.
Add the evil laugh, the throne room, and the tons of hired criminals working for him, and one throne room scene is worth 1000 backstory novels.
That's what good script-writing does. You don't need to know that his uncle's cousin's great aunt's niece once worked for HMRC or something. It adds zero to the story
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
!!!
I don't like jolly endings where killing the evil wizard in his space castle means no one, especially the heroes, ever has to have problems ever again. That's silly, and it certainly seems to be a pivotal part of the Last Jedi if the trailers are accurate that things did not go smoothly just cause the Emperor bit the bucket. They won a war. They're not perfect people who will never ere.
