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Poll
Mortarion - rots the wallet or frees the flesh?
Awesome model, pricing reasonable, must have for my Nurgle collection!
Awesome model, pricing unreasonable, must have for my Nurgle collection!
Awesome model, pricing reasonable, skipping it and I collect Nurgle.
Awesome model, pricing unreasonable, skipping it and I collect Nurgle.
Awesome model, pricing reasonable, must have and I do NOT already collect Nurgle.
Awesome model, pricing unreasonable, skipping it and would skip it regardless.
Awesome model, pricing reasonable, skipping it and would skip it regardless.
Model is meh, pricing reasonable, no interest.
Model is meh, pricing unreasonable, no interest.

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Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Mortarion is out, at 140USD.
So, a simple poll as to how it is being received.
Especially, for me, is the pricing - 140USD is simply too rich for my blood.
With 25% off from retailers, this will come down to just over 100USD.

Awesome model, too expensive, skipping it and would skip it if I collected Nurgle marines.

EDIT: Apologies if my after-initial post edit screwed up someone's early vote.
Wow, three votes in less than a minute! I was not prepared. Again, apologies...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 02:14:33


   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

It's just another example of GW trying to make everything out of plastic even if the economics probably dictate they're better suited to another medium.

Making a large, low volume (relative to something like a Rhino, I still expect it'll shift plenty) model in plastic means a) substantial time to design, which isn't a big deal when your studio is on salary, but it is still using a resource b) substantial cost in machining, even if GW pay below the market rate c) a burden on the sales to recoup those up front costs.

Plus I personally think plastic doesn't suit organic shapes very well, or maybe it's limitations of digital sculpting or the sculptors, but there's something..sanitized.. about the likes of Magnus and Mortarion that isn't to my taste.

Plus we've started to encounter an issue with some of the smaller low volume stuff having limited posing options, hell, even Morty has two poses, with his scythe in his left or his right hand!

I think GW could better serve us better by investing more into an alternative medium again, resin most likely, where the costs of riskier/lower volume models are more evenly spread, they can express better detail and while they're not inherently more posable than plastic, alternate parts, even expansion packs of extra bits, become more feasible.

They'd probably have to cut back on the swirly gak, as resin isn't well suited to that and would likely snap, but that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Probably wouldn't offer a significant saving on RRP for the customer, but would probably give better product and greater choice.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Um.. everything should be made out of plastic, if this thing was Finecast it would have broken pieces, 200$+ , utter crap filled with mold lines and small holes.

The new style of plastics are amazing. Its even better than FW Resin, i always has problems with FW models..... and they dont look any more organic than plastic, have you seen the Tervigon sac? thats pretty organic to me....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 02:37:44


   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Um.. everything should be made out of plastic, if this thing was Finecast it would have broken pieces, 200$+ , utter crap filled with mold lines and small holes.


Show me where I said Finecast? There's no reason a resin cast model need any more clean up or assembly effort than a plastic one, there's numerous companies doing it all the time, it's just people who are ignorant of those products judge resin by GW's cost and corner cutting standards where they used molds designed for metal spin casting to make Finecast models or FW where they're apparently under constant time pressure meaning casts are rushed and stuff comes out damaged or warped.

That's why I said they needed to invest in it, not just restart doing what they've done before.

The new style of plastics are amazing. Its even better than FW Resin, i always has problems with FW models..... and they dont look any more organic than plastic, have you seen the Tervigon sac? thats pretty organic to me....



Purely subjective, and doesn't really address the fact that plastic is a medium ill suited to low volume models.

Edit: Ill suited unless you've got a bunch of baby bird customers with their beaks agape for every £30 Space Marine with a new hat you can churn out I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 02:48:52


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Mortarion should be banned from tournaments.

At $140, he's too inaccessible.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 BlaxicanX wrote:
Mortarion should be banned from tournaments.

At $140, he's too inaccessible.

This is maybe the best reference so far to a previous thread in this forum. Enjoy your Exalt.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Azreal13 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Um.. everything should be made out of plastic, if this thing was Finecast it would have broken pieces, 200$+ , utter crap filled with mold lines and small holes.


Show me where I said Finecast? There's no reason a resin cast model need any more clean up or assembly effort than a plastic one, there's numerous companies doing it all the time, it's just people who are ignorant of those products judge resin by GW's cost and corner cutting standards where they used molds designed for metal spin casting to make Finecast models or FW where they're apparently under constant time pressure meaning casts are rushed and stuff comes out damaged or warped.

That's why I said they needed to invest in it, not just restart doing what they've done before.

The new style of plastics are amazing. Its even better than FW Resin, i always has problems with FW models..... and they dont look any more organic than plastic, have you seen the Tervigon sac? thats pretty organic to me....



Purely subjective, and doesn't really address the fact that plastic is a medium ill suited to low volume models.

Edit: Ill suited unless you've got a bunch of baby bird customers with their beaks agape for every £30 Space Marine with a new hat you can churn out I guess.



GW doesnt do Resin, FW does, GW does finecast, so.... how would it be resin?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 02:58:21


   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I'll direct you again to the point where I already addressed your point in my initial post with "alternative medium" as in "different from what they currently do?"

Also "what they did or do" has absolutely zero bearing on "what I think might be a good idea for them to do in the future," I mean, GW did metal, until they did Finecast.

You're quite right that FW does resin, and can you guess the reasons why? Equally that they do resin doesn't preclude another division also doing it, in fact overall investment in resin casting facilities could only be a boon for FW, who are just a brand name for GW like Citadel, so drawing any divide between them isn't really valid anyway, they can be as separate or integrated as best suits the overall company (GW PLC)

I'm not entirely sure you're quite getting what I mean about the "organic" stuff, irrespective of whether you agree or not, so I think that's better just left as a difference of opinion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 03:06:27


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Great model. For an Australian, the price is insane, but purchasing from the UK makes it far more palatable in comparison, so I'll be picking it up.

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Azreal13 wrote:
I'll direct you again to the point where I already addressed your point in my initial post with "alternative medium" as in "different from what they currently do?"

Also "what they did or do" has absolutely zero bearing on "what I think might be a good idea for them to do in the future," I mean, GW did metal, until they did Finecast.

They are not going to change what they are doing, so it does matter

You're quite right that FW does resin, and can you guess the reasons why? Equally that they do resin doesn't preclude another division also doing it, in fact overall investment in resin casting facilities could only be a boon for FW, who are just a brand name for GW like Citadel, so drawing any divide between them isn't really valid anyway, they can be as separate or integrated as best suits the overall company (GW PLC)

GW isnt going to change their million dollar machines to run resin, so yes dividing them is fine b.c they are 2 different factories with different machines

I'm not entirely sure you're quite getting what I mean about the "organic" stuff, irrespective of whether you agree or not, so I think that's better just left as a difference of opinion.

I gave an example, do you mean wings? claws? hands? faces? what do you mean, b.c FW resin wings are trash compare to plastic GW stuff. Resin is also more brittle and breaks, having Mortarion wings as resin would be a nightmare


If you dont like the model or dont like Plastic fine, i dont care but you gave some really odd reasons.

Edit: Color change, was hurting my eyes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 03:47:04


   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

No, I gave perfectly valid opinions where warranted because I'm entitled to hold any opinion I damn well like.

Where things aren't a matter of opinion, such as plastic models carry the burden of their production costs up front whereas resin models spread them more over their lifetime, I've explained it.

The fact that you're talking about changing HIPS machines to run resin suggests you've no real understanding of the differences in the tech or the economics at hand, so there's really not much point in carrying on this discussion is there?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Azreal13 wrote:
No, I gave perfectly valid opinions where warranted because I'm entitled to hold any opinion I damn well like.

Where things aren't a matter of opinion, such as plastic models carry the burden of their production costs up front whereas resin models spread them more over their lifetime, I've explained it.

The fact that you're talking about changing HIPS machines to run resin suggests you've no real understanding of the differences in the tech or the economics at hand, so there's really not much point in carrying on this discussion is there?


Never said it wasnt valid, said it was odd, so i talked to you more about them...... the only thing i said wasnt valid (and didnt use tho words) was GW changing the way they make their models, they have their model making ways down and are not changing anytime soon, i know how the machines work and there are different types, not all types can you change a couple little things to make them interchangeable.....

Im not saying your wrong, i few times i even ask to clarify... i even ask what organic parts are you referring to, i gave a few examples to ones i think are better in plastic.

Sense me trying to understand seems to be arguing to you, we can just end it here.

   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Just because it doesn't chime with what you think doesn't make it odd.

There's a reason why near enough every other manufacturer who produces HIPS kits out there is still working in multiple media, GW appear to be the only ones pursuing the 100% plastic idea, and its contributing to what, at time of writing, is a model who ~70% of respondents won't be buying for various reasons.

The assumption that GW won't change their production methods is functionally irrelevant to my opinion that I believe they should, and back in the bad old Kirby days there's a bunch of stuff that I and many others said they should do that others told us they wouldn't, that, unsurprisingly, they are now doing. Because it made sense from a broader view. Plus there's the very obvious point that they have changed production, whether it be from pewter to white metal, or metal to Finecast, or Finecast to plastic, when it's made financial sense they've done it. I'm not even suggesting they change production methods they currently use, but add to and expand them to give them more options and flexibility.

I also, unsurprisingly for this little exchange, addressed the idea of using resin as offering a better service to the customer in my first post, so your assertion that they won't change isn't really a surprise, as I've already implicitly acknowledged they won't change, merely the belief that it would be better for us if they did.

As to organic, again, I've already covered this. You're looking for me to say "resin does teeth better" or something like that, when what I'm alluding to is a lot less tangible, it's not easily expressed, but if someone has handled good quality resin models alongside plastics they may well get it. I'm not sure you do, and I'm not sure I can explain it to you, hence why I've already suggested moving on.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





I personally don't think he's a bonkers price and is a pretty fantastic model.

He's clearly meant to be a pretty powerful model and the rules, points cost and £ price reflect this. I still have the DG half of the DImp set next to my painting desk. I like the fact I can pick up another set cheap, add in maybe some of the new Terminators, a couple of tanks and Mort for a full army for around £250-300, even if he's 25-30% of that then it's still well worth it in my eyes.

I had zero problems paying £50 for 2 T'au Commanders or £80 for a Y'varha Riptide Varient. So I don't get the difference here? Sure, it's over 50% of my monthly hobby/gaming/eating out budget but it's just a case of thinking a little ahead and deciding when it's worth it ☺️

   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 Amishprn86 wrote:


GW doesnt do Resin, FW does, GW does finecast, so.... how would it be resin?


And what is this ? Made from FW, but sold by GW ?

"This pack contains four Masters of the Chapter - a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in eighteen components, and is supplied with four Citadel 25mm Round bases."

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Masters-of-the-Chapter
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





There's nothing wrong with plastic, it gives food detail, it's easy to glue together, it has good weight, it's easy to paint, and easy to repair if needed. As for the Price point, $140 is about right considering the size of the model and the fact that you're only going to need the one. I have some issues with the design, Mortarion ha always been a gaunt Grim Reaper looking dude despite the rest of his legion getting all bloated and chunky. I liked that, I thought that design made him really stand out.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Overcosted as always, but this is becoming a trend with GW's bigger monstrosities. However I was hoping he was similar to Magnus in terms of price, not more expensive (especially since it looks like Morty is smaller than Maggie, in physical body if not in square volume). Costing just as much as a Knight Titan (whom I've already considered to be overcosted) is just not feasable for me.

However complaining about price is beating a dead horse at this point. The fandom knows they're overpriced (even with the numerous justifications), GW knows they're overpriced, stock holders know they're overpriced. At this point it's basically shouting at a hurricane, as even with the insane pricing, there's enough people with more money than sense to buy it to support GW, so they will continue to do it. The rest of us will probably pick one up second hand, when the comically rich get bored of it. The good thing is, with minimal options, there's no real downside to picking up a second hand one.

EDIT: If GW ever drops the price under 100 CAD, I will probably buy one. However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 05:51:06


Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Consider that a hive tyrant/Swarmlord kit is about 50-60 bucks and about the same physical size.

Just think about that.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Gun Mage





I'm probably going to just proxy with a Reaper Bones Cthulhu.

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/cthulhu/latest/77194
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





 Lance845 wrote:
Consider that a hive tyrant/Swarmlord kit is about 50-60 bucks and about the same physical size.

Just think about that.


Bet five dakka dollars Swarmie will get his own 'special' release in the future and be $160 or something similar. That or we get a Dominatrix.

On Topic, I like the model, but that price is really out there for him. I understand people are only ever going to buy one (barring someone who wants multiple or converters), but that still pretty steep.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 07:03:18


PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in au
Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator





Aqshy, realm of Fire

I think he's an awesome model and as much as I'd like to have him in my Death Guard army, he's a bit pricey for my taste (230AUD, pricey, but what you'd expect for a one-off centrepiece huge model). I'm just adverse to special characters in my armies I'll be picking up the tallyman, marines and termies. Gonna gradually pick up the other stuff once I paint through the DG backlog.

This is where I'd put my signature...If I had one! 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





It's like £85 and he's enormous, so whatever. It's not like you need ten of him.



“Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to creep through the shadows, or to quietly slip on my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fist, Space Marine, Emperor’s Champion. Let my enemies cower at my advance and tremble at the sight of me.”
-Rogal Dorn
 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






A swarmlord is going to reliably move more units than a special character for a sub faction. For a plastic model volume of sales is key to determining the price as you have to amortise the setup costs across a number of units that you are damn sure you can sell.

Azreal's point is spot on. Models for which you forecast low sales would be better suited to resin where the setup costs are much lower. This is why the FW stuff is resin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).

Do you think morty is going to sell in anything like the volumes that valks did?

He's got half the sprues which means half the moulds so he'd have to sell half as well as valks to be the same price. Do you think that if he was the same price we'd see a morty sold for every two valks? Unless death guard players massively outnumber guard players I highly doubt it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/10 08:29:22


 
   
Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

 Scott-S6 wrote:
A swarmlord is going to reliably move more units than a special character for a sub faction. For a plastic model volume of sales is key to determining the price as you have to amortise the setup costs across a number of units that you are damn sure you can sell.

Azreal's point is spot on. Models for which you forecast low sales would be better suited to resin where the setup costs are much lower. This is why the FW stuff is resin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
However I feel 80 CAD is a fairer price (considering that the Valkyrie, a model of similar size with twice the amount of sprues, hence twice the plastic, as Morty can cost only that much and still turn a profit).

Do you think morty is going to sell in anything like the volumes that valks did?

He's got half the sprues which means half the moulds so he'd have to sell half as well as valks to be the same price. Do you think that if he was the same price we'd see a morty sold for every two valks? Unless death guard players massively outnumber guard players I highly doubt it.


I bet that if he sold for 80USD he would sell twice as many.
Given that the sunk costs are really the only costs, with plastic being negligible and boxing - after design - for each additional unit also negligible, I think that it comes down to how rare GW wants the kit to remain, how they want people to feel about 100+USD characters (or for that matter common 30USD characters) going forward. In some ways, I am happy, as it keeps the collectible models collectible, as even older models hold value when modern replacements cost an arm and a kidney. In other ways, well, I do feel that they price some people out of the game. In the end, I suppose that - for me, in my position - there is more good than bad with models like this priced this way. It means that I will never have to worry about spending the two weeks I would spend on painting the model painting the model. 140USD is a LOT of beer money. So, bonus.

   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






The per unit cost isn't negligible - the machine time is a significant expense. However, that cost is not volume dependent.

As to whether he would sell twice as many - that would depend on what the death guard / daemon primarch collector base looks like. This is a model that almost no one is going to buy in multiples for a sub faction. I would be very cautious with my sales forecasts as well.

A half price morty is the same price as a valkyrie but with half the sprues. Do you really think morty is going to sell half the units that valks have sold? Given that he's a one off purchase I don't think there are nearly enough death guard players to make that possible.

The old half the price to sell twice as many doesn't work when the total addressable market is very small.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 09:22:53


 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






The idea that the model only sells one per army to justify 3 times the price of a similar sized kit is nonsense. Judging by this thread alone the price point means they already lost sales. If they made the kit even 80 usd there are many who would be unhappy but willing to spend. At 70 most would probably consider it a fair price. 140? You've just sent a solid chunk of your customer base to the recasters/conversion work from cheaper models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/10 09:37:38



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghost of Greed and Contempt






Engaged in Villainy

I'm not that impressed with the model itself, going by the GW site pictures. Ithink the pose (in either configuration) is pretty static, I think the style of wings are a weird choice, and the face... It doesn't look how I imagine Moratrion looks.

Part of that is down to the GW paintjob, which is way too pastel-light and colourful for my tastes. But going back to the face, I really dislike the stretchy-snot stuff around the rebreather - It's a focal point of the minature, and it's sculpted as if it's been miscast or melted. He looks a bit chubby too - while the disgusting fat guy aesthetic is a big theme for Nurgle, Moratrion was described as gaunt, skeletal - and this model doesn't have that imposing, sinister presence.

Really not a fan of the model at all, though I am open to changing that opinion - I think I might like it more with a different paintjob.

"He was already dead when I killed him!"

Visit my Necromunda P&M blog, here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/747076.page#9753656 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Model is really awful. Another huge immortal superhero... I also consider the death guard aesthetics extremely silly.

 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

For Death Guard players its probably a welcome add-on and maybe a mandatory choice.
But for an non-DG player, its another immortal character with maybe rediculous rules to face.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Magnus is £5 cheaper so unreasonable

I also think it's unreasonable considering SM get their Primarch and two additional characrters for £30 less.

Model looks cool, although it's highly dependent on paint scheme I find (which could be said for any model really, but with Mortarion it feels like grungy dark colours work best for it).

YMDC = nightmare 
   
 
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