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I have some Chaos Space Marines for a second army and was wondering what's competitive? I've lost every mission of the Kronor campaign and every imperium player wanted to play me since I was the only consistent Chaos Space Marines player those weeks. Here are several questions and I

apologize in advance to asking so many but here goes. I tried renegade tactics and got to charge and advance twice but was shot off the board and was wondering if anyone has had more success with Alpha Legion even though if their army were to be close combat oriented. Is Abaddon good? Or

are daemon princes and chaos lords and sorcerers whether they have bikes or jetpacks better or does it depend on the situation? How do cultists compare to chaos space marines? Is 20 khorne berserkers in two landraiders good? Or are two rhinos better to take with other point options such as three

predators to use that +1 strength +1 wound 1 CP stratagem? I've had no success with terminators with combi-flamers. Deepstriking them is over 9 inches and riding them in landraiders takes longer than I hope to get within 8 inches. Anyone have any luck or know how to use them or drop them? Also I

only have 5 raptors to fill in an army. I used them once so far and deepstruck them turn 1 and got shot off the table the following round. The entire squad had bolt pistols and chainswords and was wondering if I should have at least given the champion a power fist or what not. I was told to drop 30

Chaos Space Marines in exchange for more elites such as khorne berserkers. Also I was wondering what's competitive because I can trade with other Chaos Space Marines in my local gaming store I visit for models. For example there's an Abaddon with one arm and he owns two and hopefully I can

get it off of him in exchange for other models Again I apologize for the sheer number of questions in one post but if a few questions could be answered, especially what's competitive that would be appreciated.. Thanks.

there is CSM topic for 8th edition and separate for specific legions. Read those.
People answer your questions in those topics.

It might make sense to deal with some of these in a combined thread. I think a lot of people are asking the same right now.

1) With regards to legion traits, their impact is debatable. In general, they mostly benefit players running large infantry squads. For example, in terms of wounds taken, AL's -1 to hit is only marginally better than Black Legion's +1 morale benefit. The actual number of wounds taken after morale is considered works out to about the same in most situations.

2) Abaddon is great. I run him in all my lists. If it's a choice between him and a DP / CL on Bike / something else, that depends on the list. I would not use him in an army that is mostly Preds / Dreds, for example, simply because his aura is not going to do as much.

3) 20 Khorne Berzerkers in 2 Land Raiders not competitive and very expensive. Could work in friendly games. Compared with 3 Predators, I would take the Predators simply because wounds do not spill over between units. It's more for your opponent to have to shoot.

4) Terminators with combi-flamers are subject to the same rules for deep strike as everything else. You will get better bang for your buck with combi-plasma. If you really want to use combi-flamers, that's what Warp Time is for.

5) Raptors die just as easily as basic Chaos Space Marines. If you are going to use them in Deep Strike, use warptime to improve chances of charging, or land behind some cover to plan for an assault the next turn. Instead of a power fist, I would get plasma or melta with Raptors.

6) Elites are not always the best models, tbh. Yes, Berzerkers have amazing rules, but they also get shot more quickly. I use CSMs in my lists, they have their roles.

7) With regards to what is strong right now, it depends on how competitive you want to be. This is the army I am running and I believe it consists of the best CSM units around.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/739627.page

It's filled with elite units and has had success against most other factions. I would hesitate to call it competitive, as I know it's at a disadvantage against Conscript spam, Orks, Ynarii / DE lists, and all-Primaris armies. But it's not like they get an auto-win, and most people I know don't play them.

I know I could do better dropping the LasPreds / Defiler and just spamming Malefic Lords + cultists + Earthshaker Batteries from the Renegades and Heretics list. But that's not really competitive to me so much as an abuse of the rules.

If a unit has mark of Slaanesh does it gain the may attack as if charged rule? Or do you need the legion tactics for that to take effect? Thanks.

BillyN831 wrote:
If a unit has mark of Slaanesh does it gain the may attack as if charged rule? Or do you need the legion tactics for that to take effect? Thanks.

You need the emperors children legion rule (which also makes your noise marines troops).

Do noise marines shoot in close combat upon death? Thanks.

3 Daemon Princes and 60 Tzaangors in 6 Rhinos. Simple but brutal. The Daemon Princes cannot be shot at when shielded by the hordes and Rhino. When in combat the Daemon Princes will wreck up anything that is not Guiliman, Draigo, or equivalent level guys or a Levithan Dreadought, unless they are very unlucky.

The Tzaangors, although not as killy as Khorne Berserkers, are still powerful and actually more resilient for their dirt cheap undercosted points. A unit of ten can still easily run over a 5-10men MEQ squads on the charge.

BillyN831 wrote:
Do noise marines shoot in close combat upon death? Thanks.

I don't think they can. But if they are IN CC when they die, they can shoot someone else.