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Of the original 18 known legions, does every Space Marine and Chaos Marine have a 'rivalry" or "nemesis"?
For example, Word Bearers hate Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors are bitter rivals, even Space Wolves & Dark Angels have a ritual dual each time they share the same battlefield.

Can someone point me to a list of all of these? I am painting Marines from all the 18 original legions and when I am done, I want to arrange them against their closest rival for a group picture.

Thanks in advance

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Legion relationships aren't that simple I'm afraid.

While two primarchs may (or may not) like each other, their legions could have very different opinions. There was a whole web of relationships between the primarchs, with periods of hot and cold between many of them.

Rather than outright rivalries, I'd recommend going with pairings of which legion most likely fought which the most during the HH and beyond. Thus my recommendations would be as follows:

Ultramarines - Sons of Horus
Dark Angels - Night Lords
Imperial Fists - Alpha Legion
White Scars - Iron Warriors
Iron Hands - Emperor's Children
Salamanders - Death Guard
Space Wolves - Thousand Sons
Blood Angels - World Eaters
Raven Guard - Word Bearers

The last one isn't that great of a fit but I feel it's better than the blatantly obvious and extremely superficial pairings that people commonly go with like, "Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors because siege!" or "Raven Guard and Night Lords because stealth!"

It's a bit harder for some of the Legions that are more universally detested, or were just on the other side. Some of them likely wouldn't have rivalries, honestly.

Who would rival the Word Bearers, when it comes to opposing their ideology and method of war? Highly religious fanatics that leave shrines temples and statuary wherever they go... Well, that would be opposed by all of the secular, Loyalist Legions.

Same with the World Eaters; vicious and murderous that have little in the way of battle tactics. Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Salamanders (they don't like collateral damage), so on.

Ultramarines and Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus are rivals because they are so close to eachother, in both style of war and number of victories.

Point being made, many Legions have rivalries and ideological differences with many Legions, even on their own side. It's really not a 1:1 sort of deal.

Edit: There were only a few true rivalries in the Horus Heresy/ Great Crusade Era, IMO. And it is the rather blatant "We're the same!" sort of thing, or they just had history. Those being, Imperial Fists vs Iron Warriors, Space Wolves vs Dark Angels, Iron Hands vs Emperors Children.

I was thinking this:

Ultramarines - Black Legion ------- mainly because these are the relative poster factions for each side
Space Wolves - Thousand Sons ---- obviously
Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors ------ both are siege warfare rivals
Dark Angels - Alpha Legion ------- both are very mysterious and could potentially be on the other's side
Iron Hands - Emperor's Children --- one thinks flesh is weak, the other revels in the pleasures of the flesh
Blood Angels - World Eaters ------ red killy marines. check
Raven Guard - Night Lords ------ both are stealthy and prefer jump-pack tactics

Salamanders - Death Guard
White Scars - Word Bearers

The last 2 pairs seem like just the left overs unfortunately. I guess I am looking for a combination of rivals (like Wolves & Tsons) and "other sides of the same coin" (like Iron hands & Emperors Children)

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jareddm wrote:
Legion relationships aren't that simple I'm afraid.

While two primarchs may (or may not) like each other, their legions could have very different opinions. There was a whole web of relationships between the primarchs, with periods of hot and cold between many of them.

Rather than outright rivalries, I'd recommend going with pairings of which legion most likely fought which the most during the HH and beyond. Thus my recommendations would be as follows:

Ultramarines - Sons of Horus
Dark Angels - Night Lords
Imperial Fists - Alpha Legion
White Scars - Iron Warriors
Iron Hands - Emperor's Children
Salamanders - Death Guard
Space Wolves - Thousand Sons
Blood Angels - World Eaters
Raven Guard - Word Bearers

The last one isn't that great of a fit but I feel it's better than the blatantly obvious and extremely superficial pairings that people commonly go with like, "Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors because siege!" or "Raven Guard and Night Lords because stealth!"

I don't think I really agree with most of these.

You say that Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors are only classed as rivals because "siege", and dismiss that. However, that's genuinely the reason in lore for their emninity: because Pertaurabo felt Dorn was getting all the good sieges, and he never got that.

For me, my non-negotiables are:

Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors = these guys are two sides of the same coin, and it shows. Bitterness, resentment and stubbornness stand between these two. Yes, Dorn fought and killed Alpharius, but that was hardly a rivalry. With these two, there's canon resentment and hatred (see Iron Cage).

Space Wolves - Thousand Sons = Easy. Two different systems of magic, destruction of homeworlds (first Prospero, then Fenris), and a full hatred on both sides.

Ultramarines - Word Bearers = There's a reason the Word Bearers wanted Ultramar razed in the Shadow Crusade. Monarchia turned the WB against their brothers, logic against worship, ambition against consolidation, chaos against order. The fact the Mark of Calth still ticks is enough to show this. I don't really understand why there was an especial rivalry you make between the UM and Sons of Horus? They never fought as we know in the Heresy, and again, poster boys isn't really much of an argument in background. Besides, the UM were not the poster boys of 30k - that would be the Sons of Horus or the Blood Angels.

Emperor's Children - Iron Hands = From close brothers to bitter enemies. The Iron Hands were slow, mechanical - the Emperor's Children fluid and alive, like an animal. Throw in Fulgrim's decapitation of Ferrus, and that's a feud that'll keep flaring.

My less preferred ideas:

Sons of Horus vs Blood Angels = Both were the main two legions up for the honour of Warmaster. Given the relationship of the two Primarchs, and the massive rifts that must have caused, not even including Sanguinius' death, that's a strong rivalry.

Death Guard - Salamanders = A maybe. Both like their flames and slow method of warfare, but one is indiscriminate, and the other is careful and protective. Again, a maybe.

Dark Angels - Night Lords = A Knightly Order against murderers, rapists and thieves. The Thramas Crusade. Their different stances in war. There's room for rivalry.

Raven Guard - Alpha Legion = Hidden warriors, but one leaves the whole area destabilised, whereas the other cleans up their mess. Not to mention the infiltration of Corax's facilities by an Alpha Legion operative. Minor one here.

This leaves White Scars - World Eaters. Yeesh. It CAN work (both Legions had a big divide between the Terran and native forces in their armies, both lived for the thrill of combat, preferably up close, both Legions were very unhelpful working with - World Eaters with their whole mindless slaughter, and Scars with their refusal to regroup and remain static), but it's far from ideal.

Really, my main choices are UM/WB, IF/IW, TS/SW, EC/IH, maybe with BA/SoH.

I don't think the pairing of UMs against Black Legion has much to do with an actually rivalry, but more about both legions being the "vanillas" of both sides. Until recently, most Space Marine box art has been blue marines and most Chaos Marine box art was Black legion.

But I do agree that Word Bearers definitely oppose UMs.

I'll have to ponder more on this. As I said, I want to do a face-off picture with the 9 Loyalists on one side and the 9 Traitors on the other. I think the picture would be more impactful if each model had its "opposite" directly across from it.

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White Scars and Death Guard are definitely enemies by the end of "Path of Heaven". They spent 4 bitter years fighting. Add to that their Primarchs were on opposite sides of the Psyker debate with Khan supporting the Librarius while Mortarion wanted Psykers out of the Legions.

Alpha Legion and Ultramarines have a long history of emnity with Roboute rumoured to have killed in Alpharius in a duel during the Scouring although this seems like it might be a rumour invented by the Alpha Legion themselves.

I think we can conclude that because UMs are the "mary sue" Marines, they have been involved in enough wars to be considered "arch enemies" by several Traitor legions.
Thanks for that note about White Scars vs Death Guard

So to keep a running tally, this is what we have:

Definitely:
Ultramarines v Black legion OR Word Bearers
Space Wolves v Thousand Sons
Imperial Fists v Iron Warriors
Iron Hands v Emperor's Children

Maybe:
Dark Angels - Alpha Legion
Blood Angels - World Eaters OR Sons of Horus (Black legion)
Raven Guard - Night Lords OR Alpha Legion
Death Guard v Salamanders OR White Scars
Ultramarines v Alpha legion

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 Galef wrote:
I think we can conclude that because UMs are the "mary sue" Marines, they have been involved in enough wars to be considered "arch enemies" by several Traitor legions.
Thanks for that note about White Scars vs Death Guard
So to keep a running tally, this is what we have:

Definitely:
Ultramarines v Black legion OR Word Bearers
Space Wolves v Thousand Sons
Imperial Fists v Iron Warriors
Iron Hands v Emperor's Children

Maybe:
Dark Angels - Alpha Legion
Blood Angels - World Eaters OR Sons of Horus (Black legion)
Raven Guard - Night Lords OR Alpha Legion
Death Guard v Salamanders OR White Scars
Ultramarines v Alpha legion
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I completely agree with your definite list except I clarify you first pairing.
Ultramarines - Black Legion (As stated they are the "poster boys" for each group).

I will make my case with reasons:
Black Templar - Word Bearers (Two examples of "fanatics" from both groups).
Raven Guard - Alpha Legion (Both are into the hidden war of 40k, none compare).
Dark Angels - "The Lost" / Cypher (All else is irrelevant to the Dark Angels.)
Blood Angels - World Eaters (Blood Angels see in them what they could become...)
White Scars - Night Lords (Both are lightening strike forces with focus on mobility with focus on disrupting the enemy).
Salamanders - Death Guard (The one I am most iffy on, the penchant for flame is ideal for purging corruption and infection. They are creators, make fine equipment and live in communities, death guard would represent corruption of all they hold dear)

Interesting exercise.

 Talizvar wrote:

Black Templar - Word Bearers (Two examples of "fanatics" from both groups).

Oh, now that makes a lot of sense. I have a Black Templar marine but was not planning on including him since Templars are a Successor chapter.

 Talizvar wrote:

Raven Guard - Alpha Legion (Both are into the hidden war of 40k, none compare).

This one makes sense too, especially since both have a near identical <Faction> tactic

 Talizvar wrote:

White Scars - Night Lords (Both are lightening strike forces with focus on mobility with focus on disrupting the enemy).

This one makes since from a tactics perspective and if I am not pairing the Raven Guard against the Night Lord, this fits.

I may have to split this into several pictures.
This discussion is pretty great so far, Thanks everyone!

EDIT: This is where I am leaning now:
Ultramarines v. Black legion
Imperial Fists v. Iron Warriors
Space Wolves v. Thousand Sons
Iron Hands v. Emperor's Children
Salamanders v. Death Guard
Blood Angels v. World Eaters
Raven Guard v. Alpha Legion
White Scars v. Night lords
Black Templars v Word Bearers
Dark Angels v. Fallen (I am making a Red Corsiair Marine, would that work?)

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How about UM vs WB, BA vs BL, and BT vs WE?

That way, we get HH rivalries, and the BT and WE show the frantic rush-to-chainweapon-range aspects?

The ultramarines mortal enemies are the word bearers. Anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't know much about the fluff.

Are people just picking thematic pairings or are they basing it off the actual fluff? Some of the pairings people have listed may be "mirror matches" but there is no particular fluff to support them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Generalstoner wrote:
The ultramarines mortal enemies are the word bearers. Anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't know much about the fluff.

That enmity is a comparatively recent development in the fluff that was first described in "First Heretic". In older fluff, it was the Alpha Legion who were the Ultramarines nemesis. Their legion symbols are alpha and omega respectively, you can't get much more blatant than that. Plus there is the fluff about Tesstra Prime and Eskrador.

In the fluff, the rivalries are as follows:
Imperial Fists vs Iron Warriors
Space Wolves vs Thousand Sons
Ultramarines vs Word Bearers
These are the fiercest and most well known rivalries. There is also a few 'lesser' rivalries:
Iron Hands vs Emperor's Children
Raven Guard vs Alpha Legion
Alpha Legion vs Ultramarines
Death Guard vs Thousand Sons
Space Wolves vs Dark Angels
Iron Hands vs Raven Guard
Iron Hands vs Salamanders
Black Legion vs Emperor's Children