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Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






We all know we have fortifications and FW turrets and whatnot for stationary guns, but the former usually require someone manning them (with the odd exception here and there) while the latter means that it's more of an experimental idea that didn't bleed into "proper" 40k.

What if the new Guard Dex came with a whole selection of emplacement version of certain guns? Like Hydra Gun Batteries, the FW Earthshaker emplacement, Gun turrets, and so forth? Play-wise they would probably be immobile versions of the existing units with a slight price discount (the key difference from fortifications is that they come with their own crew and do not fall back and whatnot).

Similarly, what about other faction's versions of turrets? like the Waaagh! banners from DoW for Orks, Tau Gun Turrets (also available at FW), Tarantulas, and maybe even spore-pods for tyranids that just constantly spew out spore mines or something.

EDIT, I POSTED THIS IN THE WRONG FORUM.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/18 03:38:51


Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's likely that most fortifications GW produce do not sell well.

Probably because the rules for them suck.

If they fixed the rules... they'd sell more.
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






I'm not sure GW knows what to do with fortifications. Thinks it's a cool idea to have them, but doesn't know what to do with them.

6th and 7th ed fortifications were either fine and useful because they were pieces of terrain that added a bonus, or death traps you could only comfortably place units in that didn't need the extra protection in the first place.

With 8th ed I'm really not sure what GW has in mind in the first place. Terrain/model interaction is sparse and a bunker is basically half a transport, immobile with bad BS but giving shelter and fire points to models. The Imperial bunker specifically mentions putting models from the occupying unit(s) on the roof as a reminder, which tells us that unlike a normal building with a flat roof, you shouldn't place any models there. It's very limited in what it adds to the game.

Now I'll preface this by saying that I very much doubt the Guard codex will have emplacements simply because there are no models for them (you'll get that in a Forgeworld book), but if we assumed they did include any, I don't think they'd be much different from what I said above. Just an immobile model with low strength, moderate toughness and a good armor save but abysmal close combat abilities.

What I could see, what with GW's obsession with aura effects, is something like Waaagh banners boosting stuff in the vicinity. I didn't check if there are 8th ed rules, but that's what the Marine statue used to do and I could see that being appealing to the game designers. But again, no entry without a model, so if it's not already covered in an Index, I don't see it happening (and if it is covered in an Index, it's still no happening because it's already got rules).

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Well if they did include them I'd imagine they'd have drastically different rules than fortifications. Namely they don't need (and indeed can't have) models inside them to function.

Obviously, this would require new models, which is very unlikely. And since there has been no actual hints of it, realistically we can expect this to be nonexistent. But just theoretically, would you guys think these would be a good addition to the game or would immobile but cheap units be a tad out of place/too powerful?

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






I see 8th ed as predominantly an alpha strike edition. Powerful shooting with terrain doing very little to mitigate it, pin-point deep strike and the ability to assault on turn 1.

I don't think what such a game needs is more cheap fire power or fragile platforms that fold the moment someone looks at them funny. Handing out just that, platforms that are kept cheap because they are immobile and are valued only for their fire power, is just going to make the game worse than it already is by placing yet greater emphasis on who gets first turn. Since you include a crew, you don't even need to pay for an extra unit to sit in it, which likely saves cost as well.

It would probably also affect other armies that, when facing such an army, have to bring the exact right tools and hope to go first, or else the game is over after deployment.

Making immobile units a staple of an army is very hard to balance because the designers can't foresee the amount of LOS blocking terrain (pretty much the only meaningful terrain in this edition) used in games. The more of it there is, the less powerful an emplacement will be. Which will lead to a pretty large variance in performance, which has to be accounted for in their points cost. Unforeseeable limitations, in my experience, were what got in the way of fortifications in 7th ed. Most of the time, what I brought felt over- or underpowered because of circumstances that had nothing to do with the fortification. I hardly ever got the feeling the fortification was worth bringing but still possible to deal with for my opponent (the sweet spot of perfect balance, if you will). I would expect our fictional 8th ed gun emplacements to convey a similar feel.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






Hardly a surprise that taking a unit like the Basilisk which hardly needs to move, making it immobile and giving it a decent discount for being immobile just makes it flat out better.

Who could have predicted that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Obviously, this would require new models, which is very unlikely. And since there has been no actual hints of it, realistically we can expect this to be nonexistent. But just theoretically, would you guys think these would be a good addition to the game or would immobile but cheap units be a tad out of place/too powerful?

Its not theoretical - these units already exist from FW and they are mostly flat out better than the regular version. The only way they could not be is if the discount for being immobile was so tiny that it was basically irrelevant.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/18 20:32:54


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Units that don't move are lame and boring.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





I use tarantulas. They're fun. Pretty cheap. Set and forget.

Not the smallest threat and not the biggest so they tend to survive.
   
 
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