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Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







The original video was removed and I can only find the French now;




Will have a new rulebook, source books for each time period and a battlebook containing scenarios.

The video teases various things including a Medieval period, Ancient period, Far Eastern and Fantastical (shows a pic of a werewolf and other things.)

Update for link to design interview;
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Saga.html

Edits; New interview and replacement of the video with one that works (though in French).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/19 01:20:23


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Interesting...

It'll be nice to see a stand alone rulebook. That's pretty much needed if they're going to spread out into different eras like this. The current situation with 'Dark Ages' and 'Crescent and Cross' means that people who might be interested in both eras basically end up buying a duplicate rulebook. It's not a big problem yet with just the two books. But it would become a problem if there were, say, half a dozen rulebooks, each with the core rules in addition to the new warbands. One consolidated rulebook deals with that problem.

I'm curious how they're planning on doing the army books. Under the current arrangement, each army book must include the necessary battle boards. That kind of puts an upper limit on how many armies can be incorporated into a single book. The Aetius and Arthur book with six battle boards seems like it might be the upper limit both for logistical reasons, and for price. Putting all 15 of the Dark Ages lists in the current books into one big book probably wouldn't work very well.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

Well, they don't mention battleboard in the announcement.

It'd be a crazy move, but maybe they're doing away with battleboards?

Or they'll be a digital download, and so not included with the rulebooks.

   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

I am looking forward to seeing what the Fantasy Rules bring.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





East Midlands UK

If they have any sense they will keep the battleboards but get rid of the special dice. I bought the rules and made some dice with ordinary D6 and stickers due to the dice being out of stock but it felt a bit rubbish so we ended up rewriting the battleboards to use ordinary die pips. In the end we thought that after paying twenty five quid for a very slim rulebook we shouldn't have to rewrite bits because the (supposedly optional) dice were not available.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Scotland

Special dice for each army 3000 B.C - 1500 A.D.
   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

I like the special Dice, but of course you do not need them.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 StygianBeach wrote:
I like the special Dice, but of course you do not need them.


Yup. I use the special dice for my own rolls. But when I'm marking out my opponent's dice deployment on my copy of his battleboard, I use regular dice with the face turned to one of the numbers corresponding to the symbol on the associated die.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Fantasy SAGA has my attention.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





TCS Midway

I'm not super crazy about a solid dive into fantasy, but alternate era sources/boards would be great.

On time, on target, or the next one's free

Gesta Normannorum - A historical minis blog
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474587.page

 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 Maniac_nmt wrote:
I'm not super crazy about a solid dive into fantasy, but alternate era sources/boards would be great.


They've already gone into Fantasy once. The limited release Necromancer board had a Necromancer as the leader, and zombies as the troops. The rationale was that most cultures have a zombie-like creature in their myths, so it would fit against any opponent.
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





TCS Midway

Eumerin wrote:
 Maniac_nmt wrote:
I'm not super crazy about a solid dive into fantasy, but alternate era sources/boards would be great.


They've already gone into Fantasy once. The limited release Necromancer board had a Necromancer as the leader, and zombies as the troops. The rationale was that most cultures have a zombie-like creature in their myths, so it would fit against any opponent.


I am well aware of the board, but it was a one off, not a core aspect of the game. Still, we'll see. Ronin and En Garde! have some rules for fantasy, but these are clearly add ons for those who want to delve into that.

On time, on target, or the next one's free

Gesta Normannorum - A historical minis blog
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474587.page

 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Surely they wouldn't get rid of the battleboards?! That's a fundamental change to the game. That would be like taking a rank-and-file game and mechanics of combat resolution and changing it to individual basing and a rulebook with only 3 pages

Eumerin wrote:
 Maniac_nmt wrote:
I'm not super crazy about a solid dive into fantasy, but alternate era sources/boards would be great.


They've already gone into Fantasy once. The limited release Necromancer board had a Necromancer as the leader, and zombies as the troops. The rationale was that most cultures have a zombie-like creature in their myths, so it would fit against any opponent.


Think that was only a dipped toe into the water, a bit of fun for the Salute show one year (although guess they were popular enough to keep making them!)

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Made in gb
Stitch Counter





The North

According to the author of Saga;

Battle Boards will remain a fundamental part of the game
Crescent and Cross is now out of date. New Crusades Era will be released with 12 factions
Dark Ages is now out of date. All existing factions will be re-done and released in a Dark Ages book
Fantasy is separate from Historical and will have its own release
Aetius and Arthur will remain as part of the new ruleset
Age of the Wolf will be FAQed/updated
Saga Dice are being kept

Information Here

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/28 12:21:47


Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts

Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Some new information about Saga 2.0 was released at Crisis apparently. Major changes are;
Units must move in a straight line, cavalry can turn after a move of M.
Units outside of L of an enemy can move twice providing they don't move within L.
Fatigue rules have changed quite a lot, apparently everyone is exhausted after three fatigue, using fatigue in combat is now IGOUGO, no limit to number of fatigue that can be used at once to raise/lower stats.
New close ranks rule let you discard all attacks to gain armour.
Warlords now generate one dice only, may only be protected by Hearthguard, no more With ME order, attacks boosted to 8 to compensate, fatigue can be gained to ignore hits.
Hearthguard no changes.
Warriors only generate dice at 4+ models and cant protect warlord.
Levy now generate one dice at 6+ models, now gain one attack per two models instead of three.

Rule book will be rules only but cheap, packs will be released comprising a dozen battleboards (was told these were faction packs but I think they meant time period packs).
Eras are Dark Ages, Crusades, Late Medieval and Fantasy. No idea where the Far Eastern stuff fits yet, could be time line dependent.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





TCS Midway

Not sure how I feel about those changes. Saga was a rock solid game already, and those don't seem to be great moves in terms of changes.

If the new battleboards work with the old rules, perhaps I will just look at them. I'm sure I will get 2.0 also, but not sure it will see much play.

On time, on target, or the next one's free

Gesta Normannorum - A historical minis blog
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474587.page

 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I would like to see all this with working links.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Well the video used to work and I don't know why it doesn't now, the last post by me was from word of mouth so I would have trouble linking that. But after exhaustive and intensive searching (ie about three seconds on google) here is a link just for you;
http://skirmishwargaming.com/saga-second-edition-changes/

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

Super excited about Fantasy Saga. Never could get into the historical stuff.

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

The Late Medieval pack would be of interest to me as an alternate set of rules to play my Hussites.

Spain in Flames: Flames of War (Spanish Civil War 1936-39) Flames of War: Czechs and Slovaks (WWI & WWII) Sheffield & Rotherham Wargames Club

"I'm cancelling you, I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf." - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
 
   
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Dakka Veteran






 Wulfmar wrote:
Crescent and Cross is now out of date. New Crusades Era will be released with 12 factions

Sigh. Bought C&C a couple months ago and have not even had a chance to use it yet,

ingtaer wrote:
Some new information about Saga 2.0 was released at Crisis apparently. Major changes are;
Units must move in a straight line, cavalry can turn after a move of M.

I admit I'm a Saga newbie, but this sounds silly in a skirmish level game like this. Do any experienced players feel this was something the game needed, and if so, why?
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





TCS Midway

It is not needed, none of the proposed changes are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 22:35:00


On time, on target, or the next one's free

Gesta Normannorum - A historical minis blog
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474587.page

 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Yeah some of the changes are just change for the sake of it. I am lead to believe that there are new authors on board who are wanting to make Saga 'Thiers' which is partly to blame. Again that's word of mouth, but the end note in C+C does seem to bear that out...

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
Stitch Counter





The North

Scuttlebutt incoming:

2nd Edition Dark Ages Factions (pending any last minute changes) are...

Carolingian
Welsh
Anglo Danes
Anglo Saxons
Norse-Gaels
Irish
Scots
Last Romans
Pagan Rus
Jomsvikings
Normans
Vikings

I expect factions missing such as the Strathclyde Welsh will be a subfaction of the Welsh (As per indications of other sub-factions presented in the A&A style)


Also: I've made a post in the news and rumors section - though I can confirm these aren't rumors, they're happening - with regard to new models produced by Gripping Beast for SAGA HERE

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/16 13:56:44


Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts

Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Presumably the Byzantines would fall under Last Romans. Rus Princes is odd, though. They're not on the list. And while one could argue that they'll be subsumed into Pagan Rus, the two have very little in common (to the point that Pagan Rus is pure foot infantry, while the Princes use lots of mounted troops).
   
Made in us
Oberleutnant





I have a bag of Mongols just begging for them to do rules.







 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Eumerin wrote:
Presumably the Byzantines would fall under Last Romans. Rus Princes is odd, though. They're not on the list. And while one could argue that they'll be subsumed into Pagan Rus, the two have very little in common (to the point that Pagan Rus is pure foot infantry, while the Princes use lots of mounted troops).


Those factions would be under the Crusades supplement.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




ingtaer wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
Presumably the Byzantines would fall under Last Romans. Rus Princes is odd, though. They're not on the list. And while one could argue that they'll be subsumed into Pagan Rus, the two have very little in common (to the point that Pagan Rus is pure foot infantry, while the Princes use lots of mounted troops).


Those factions would be under the Crusades supplement.


No...

Both factions are part of the current Dark Ages groups. While the Byzantines did exist during the Crusades era, they were also a strong presence during the Dark Ages era, as well. And the Rus were well into their decline by the time of the First Crusade. They reached their peak right around the same time as the Battle of Hastings.

Finally, moving the two factions to the Crusades would leave the Pagans sitting all alone in the East (the only other group out that way are the Steppe Nomads, and I don't see them on the list, either), which seems odd. If you're going to do that, then why bother lumping them with the others?

   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Fair enough, though I would have thought both the Byzantines and Steppe Nomads (could also be Mongols/Turks) would go pretty well under the Crusades timeline especially as the Crusaders sacked Byzantium. Must admit that I know next to nothing about the Rus just thought they might fit there as part of the Eastern Crusades. I guess time will tell!


Here is what the designer has to say about V2.0;

https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Saga.html
Spoiler:

Version two of SAGA has just been announced by our chums at Studio Tomahawk. This has led to a number of queries so Alex, Mr SAGA, has written this peice about the plans for version two and what it means for new and existing players.
SAGA is getting a second edition. Why?
The new edition of SAGA arose from our desire to improve the game and make it more accessible.
I’ve always thought that designing a miniatures game was more of a job for a tinker than an artist. Unlike a work of art, where at some point the artist has to say “I’m done”, a set of rules constantly evolves and never stops being improved. That’s why you see players modifying a couple of rules in their favourite games far more often than you see people repainting part of their art collection or tweaking the end of the novel they bought!
Generally, a game evolves by being added to, with supplements or via errata and updates. The end of this evolutionary process (whether it’s effected by an editor or the gaming community) marks the final end of the game in question.
I have never really liked errata and updates. They are necessarily missing from the rulebook the players have in their hands, and they must be actively looked for to be found. Having to cross-reference several sources of information (in this case the rulebook, the updates, and the errata) just causes confusion and makes learning the game harder than it needs to be.
With Saga, we’ve decided to use our errata to improve the game, removing editing errors from the book and supplements, and fixing problems that appeared after publication. But that doesn’t mean I’d stopped thinking about how – from my perspective – the game could be further improved. And those ideas were tested during our games. Some fell by the wayside, but others were carefully noted down for future use.
The release of Aetius & Arthur brought to light a problem SAGA suffered from: the impossibility of getting the rules separately from a certain period. If you aren’t interested in the Late Roman or Arthurian period, you have to get the rules elsewhere, either in their most recent incarnation (Crescent & Cross) or in their original form (SAGA: Dark Age Skirmishes). Since we want to release supplements opening SAGA up to new periods without repeating the basic rules in each book (making them more onerous than they should be!), we didn’t want that problem or the legitimate issues it raised to continue. Not to mention it was an obstacle to making SAGA as accessible as it should be.
Studio Tomahawk therefore decided last year that a new edition of SAGA would see the light of day. I sat myself down to compile the notes and ideas I’d seriously collected for more than a year to draft a new version of the rules.
SAGA 2 – Evolution or Revolution?
Let me reassure SAGA players – you’ll recognise the game you know and love. You’ll still use SAGA dice and battleboards, and you’ll still lead your Warlord to a glorious end, whether in victory or defeat!
This new edition has been a chance for us to put the years of experience we have accumulated since SAGA was first released in 2011 to work ironing out certain aspects of the game, without touching the bones of the system. We have improved certain mechanisms, simplified others, and rearrange the layout. The changes are numerous, and amply justify a new edition.
I think that this new version is easier to learn, brings more tactical choices, and offers a challenge as much to existing players as to new ones. I’m sure that some of our choices will surprise players, but rest assured – we have spent countless hours around the gaming table weighing up each change, checking and testing every one to develop the current version.
How will the new edition of SAGA be released?
SAGA will be released as a softback rulebook of fifty or so pages. This format was chosen in order to provide the rulebook – the entry point into the SAGA system – as cheaply as possible. Although for now we cannot give a price for the book, believe us when we say it’ll be lower than some have feared, and much closer to the cost of Dark Age supplements like Northern Fury than a book like Crescent & Cross.
This rulebook contains the whole game system, but does not include any factions or battleboards. It explains the mechanisms of movement and melee, how to assemble a warband, the special rules, and includes a generic scenario.
Over time we will publish the SAGA Universes. These will be hardback books devoted to a particular historical period or fantasy setting. Each of them will specifically describe the special rules for all its factions and will provide several battleboards. Each SAGA Universe is an independent and self-sufficient product (well, except for the main rulebook). Therefore, each SAGA player will be able to choose the universe or universes that interest them, without having to invest in the entire collection, or having to buy books on periods which don’t appeal to them.
The first of these Universes will come out at the same time as the rulebook. It will be Age of Vikings, which will cover the Dark Ages from the 8th to the 11th centuries with no less than 12 factions, the legends of this heroic age, and mercenaries for you to recruit.
The following publications will cover other settings, historical, mythological or fantastical. Images from the teaser video should give an idea of the direction we’re aiming in…
We also intend to publish the Book of Battles, which will be an ideal companion to the rulebook. It’s a collection of scenarios, additional rules and gameplay options for players who want to explore SAGA in different forms, with scenario-driven play, campaigns or multi-player games.
So can I throw out all my old books and figures?
The new edition of SAGA replaces the rules found in SAGA: Dark Age Skirmishes and Crescent & Cross. The Dark Age factions – which is to say those in SAGA: Dark Age Skirmishes and its three period supplements – will come out at the same time as the rulebook in Age of Vikings, which I mentioned above.
The factions from Crescent & Cross will be revised and rounded up in another SAGA Universe, Age of Crusades, which will come out a little later in the year. Six new factions will enrich the period, bringing the contents of this SAGA Universe to twelve factions in all.
Aetius & Arthur, having been developed after we’d started working on the new edition, will remain in the range and won’t be replaced. When SAGA is released, we’ll make available the necessary amendments to bring it up to date. Aetius & Arthur will therefore become a fully-fledged SAGA Universe, and its contents will also give you a good idea of what future supplements will be like.
The Age of the Wolf supplement will also get an update to make it compatible with the second edition.
Players will still be able to game with the scenarios in the old books, especially in the run up of the Book of Battles’ release.
It will not be impossible to play the new rules with the old battleboards, although occasional difficulties might arise. These won’t be insurmountable, and will tide players over until their favourite factions are updated.
As for figures, all warbands from current factions will be usable in their current form with the new edition of SAGA. We have made it a point of principle to ensure that not a single figures will be made obsolete by the arrival of the second edition.
You’re going to add fantasy to SAGA? Vikings with fireballs? 
Yeah, and Saracens with flying carpets…
More seriously, we’ve never hidden our affection for myths, legends and medieval fantasy in general. We aren’t going to introduce fantasy into historical settings (at least no more than we already have, for those who think Saga is already a fantasy game!), but what SAGA player could resist the call of the Iliad, Norse mythology, or any other medieval fantasy world? Not me, in any case – I dream of playing SAGA in these universes!
Therefore, some SAGA Universes will be purely historical, while others will draw from the myths, legends and medieval fantasy stories that have inspired us. Players will be able to choose which settings they want to play in depending on their preferences.
But I’ll still be able to pit Vikings against Crusaders?
With the new edition, we want to promote games within a single Universe. That said, since all the SAGA Universes share the same basic rules, improbable encounters are possible and often pretty fun.
Nevertheless, players should keep in mind that the SAGA Universes will be developed independently from each other. Therefore, even if we are confident of the balance between factions in a particular setting, we cannot guarantee that battles between warbands from different Universes will be fair. But checking for yourself costs no more than the time to play the game!
When will all this be available?
The rulebook and Age of Vikings will come out first, in 2018. Age of Crusades and the Book of Battles will follow. After that, we have lots of other Universes in development, and the order of publication depends on how quickly they each progress.


TLDR; Each Saga universe (time period or fantasy setting) is developed to be internally balanced and not necessarily against each other.
Book of Battles will contain scenarios, multi player and campaign games.
"The Dark Age factions – which is to say those in SAGA: Dark Age Skirmishes and its three period supplements – will come out at the same time as the rulebook in Age of Vikings."
C+C factions will be released with 6 new factions in age of crusades.
Aetius & Arthur will remain as is updated to v2 as will Age of the Wolf.
All current models will still be playable in v2.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/19 01:46:54


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Also, the Byzantines still referred to themselves as Romans for centuries after the fall of Rome itself. Given that, making the "Last Romans" faction the Byzantines makes a lot of sense.

As for the comments-

I don't think anyone has an issue with seperating out the rules. But rewriting parts of them to make one of the most accessible skirmish games "more accessible" worries me alot.
   
 
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