Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Imagine this ... a crowded, chaotic Imperial Guard field headquarters. Dozens upon dozens of disoriented men and women running around, frantically gathering around holo-displays of battlfields, the crackling of vox-casters, distant echoes of gunfire and artillery, when suddenly ...

A distress signal comes in. An Imperial Baneblade is stranded and needs to be rescued.

My question is ... who do they send? The first available battalion of guardsmen to rush in and secure the Baneblade? Do they airdrop their most hardened and grizzled Scions? An Armoured Company? One single exasperated Space Marine? Do Baneblades even need saving or would the commander just plow through the enemy until they reached safety again? Is there a sliding threat scale, say, if facing Orks, they'd send in the Guard, but if facing Chaos Space Marines, they'd bump it up to the Scions?

Probably depends on the severity of the situation, as well as the state of the Baneblade.

Given that they are priceless tech-relics, you can be certain that the Mechanicum is going to want to be there. Not only to recover the relic, but if the Baneblade is stranded, it is likely in need of repair, which the Mechanicum is able to provide. So regardless of who else comes, at least a few tech-priests would probably be in attendance.

Space Marines, no, they are not part of a normal Imperial chain of command and any such order would be at the behest of the Marine's officer who would be working alongside, but not beneath the other Imperial command in the battle.

I'd say you're closest with it being guardsmen or Scions for extreme threats.

Bombard the Baneblade's location with anti-infantry artillery, then send in the guard with a few of those tractors for hauling other vehicles and a tech priest.

It depends on what you mean by ''Stranded''.

Is it just bogged down?

Is it trapped by enemy forces?

There is an entire short story (I think called Gunheads) where they are trying to recover Yarrik's baneblade. Unfortunately, it is a bad example, as there are other plot-elements that affect things...

THAT SAID

They send a Shadowsword and two armoured battalions of leman russes (with supporting infantry) and adeptus mechanicus elements to take back the wrecked Fortress of Arrogance. While, like I mentioned, there are other plot things going on that make this force a bit larger than necessary it is worth noting that none of the Imperial Generals involved think that this is an abnormally large force to recover a baneblade

Generally it would be the Engineers with 2-3 Atlas Recovery vehicles and Tech-priest support.

Baneblades are priceless relics, so they will send whatever it takes to recover one. Even if they have to sacrifice a million men for it, that is a price well worth paying.
Of course, what "whatever it takes" actually consists of is highly dependent on the situation. It would consist of the necessary recovery vehicles and engineering support, a force to secure the location of the Baneblade and a detachment to guard the recovery vehicles.

One imagines that the Company Tech-Priest/Enginseer takes command of that particular duty.

If it can be done straight away, for instance when the Astra Militarum have the upper hand, it's probably done there and then.

If not? Expect a Mechanicus lead invasion fleet to recover the hull. The longer it takes to retrieve, the longer it takes to placate the justly enraged machine spirit.

As other people have said, it all depends on the condition of the baneblade and how much enemy opposition there is to recovering it. If the enemy is really entrenched around it your basically looking at a full scale IG assault.

If the Baneblade only needs some minor repairs and is in no man's land, it makes the most sense to me for them to drop a couple of Valkyries worth of Scions down on it, accompanied with an enginseer and a tank crew.

The Scions would guard the enginseer while he got the Baneblade up and running again, then the whole team except the tank crew would leave in the Valkyries and the crew would drive the Baneblade back to friendly lines. A quick surgical operation.

The only sure thing is that no expense would be spared in retrieving the hulk, regardless of the baneblade's condition. Unless it lies scattered in a million pieces, as long as there's a salvagable hull the Imperium (or rather, the Imperium under prodding from the AdMech) will spare no expense in recovering it. Granted, this is a lot easier for the Imperium because warm bodies are more plentiful than toilet paper.

While it's normally a bad idea to link real life and military practices with Warhammer...in this case I think it's apt. While you won't see a model of it, or figures for them...it's very safe to say that an Imperial Guard force would have just as many combat engineers, mechanics, recovery teams, vehicles etc. that a normal military force would have.

While unseen (as yet) it's very safe to say there is a superheavy based recovery vehicle. This is simply how you move big tanks - another big tank comes by and pulls it out. They may also simply use another superheavy with tow chains/ropes, etc. Someone above mentioned the Atlas -- and there's a chance a couple of them could try, but it's unlikely they have the pull or traction for something like a Baneblade.

I wish there was a 3rd party company who did a lot more stuff like this for 40K. The game is very thin on the outside and I'd love to see civilian models, pilots, cargo shuttles, engineers, combat engineers, traders and merchants etc. A ton of opportunity for much more interesting games, but they simply won't sell enough for GW to bother.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The only sure thing is that no expense would be spared in retrieving the hulk, regardless of the baneblade's condition. Unless it lies scattered in a million pieces, as long as there's a salvagable hull the Imperium (or rather, the Imperium under prodding from the AdMech) will spare no expense in recovering it. Granted, this is a lot easier for the Imperium because warm bodies are more plentiful than toilet paper.

Should the Baneblade indeed be scattered in a million pieces, then knowing the AdMech, they will prod the poor sods of the IG to recover every single little piece..

 Elbows wrote:
While it's normally a bad idea to link real life and military practices with Warhammer...in this case I think it's apt. While you won't see a model of it, or figures for them...it's very safe to say that an Imperial Guard force would have just as many combat engineers, mechanics, recovery teams, vehicles etc. that a normal military force would have.

While unseen (as yet) it's very safe to say there is a superheavy based recovery vehicle. This is simply how you move big tanks - another big tank comes by and pulls it out. They may also simply use another superheavy with tow chains/ropes, etc. Someone above mentioned the Atlas -- and there's a chance a couple of them could try, but it's unlikely they have the pull or traction for something like a Baneblade.

I wish there was a 3rd party company who did a lot more stuff like this for 40K. The game is very thin on the outside and I'd love to see civilian models, pilots, cargo shuttles, engineers, combat engineers, traders and merchants etc. A ton of opportunity for much more interesting games, but they simply won't sell enough for GW to bother.

Get one of these:


http://www.hobbylinc.com/afvclub-m88a1g-bergepanzer-recovery-tank-plastic-model-tank-kit-1:35-scale-35s33

http://www.hobbylinc.com/afvclub-m88a1-recovery-tank-plastic-model-tank-kit-1:35-scale-3508



And convert that bad boy.

Yep - if you google "warhammer recovery tank" or "baneblade recovery tank" you'll see a bunch of conversions people have already done.

The Atlas recovery tank, Trojan support vehicle (essentially a tracked and thinly armored truck), and sentinel powerlifter all represent support elements and are good models to boot. My superheavy tank regiment has 4 Trojans, a Salamander, and an Atlas among its support company.

We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as they always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as they always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

I mentioned that too, and I agree. While there are other shenanigans going on, none of the generals/sector command/anyone really objects to the entire army group being mobilized to save a single baneblade.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as thjey always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

The Fortress of Arrogance is also a special baneblade. So that situation was rather extraordinary. Which is likely the reason for there not being much surprise over it. If it was just Baneblade #2471 then somebody might have said something.

Heh, I can imagine a touching imperial propaganda movie based on this scenario:

Saving Baneblade Fortress of Arrogance.

Starring Hank Toms as the commanding officer of the retrieval task force and Matt Daemon as the Baneblade.

At the end of the movie, we see that the retrieval mission was indeed a noble cause: the aged Fortress of Arrogance is seen with Commissar Yarrick after a time skip of several decades... and they mow down the enemies of the Imperium with eleven barrels of hell!

RedCommander wrote:
Heh, I can imagine a touching imperial propaganda movie based on this scenario:

Saving Baneblade Fortress of Arrogance.

Starring Hank Toms as the commanding officer of the retrieval task force and Matt Daemon as the Baneblade.

At the end of the movie, we see that the retrieval mission was indeed a noble cause: the aged Fortress of Arrogance is seen with Commissar Yarrick after a time skip of several decades... and they mow down the enemies of the Imperium with eleven barrels of hell!

I'd watch that .

Honestly given how large and diverse the Imperium is, and how varied its fields of battle are, I'm honestly not sure if there's anything resembling a standard Baneblade recovery team. Obviously part of the detachment is capable of actually doing the recovery work, which means techpriests and whatever tools and equipment s required. Then there's going to be a vanguard of some sort protecting the enginseers, which could be anything from an armored column, to a skitarii force, a Knight, a deathwatch kill team, a full IG regiment, and/or even an Inquisitor's retinue or another Baneblade. It depends on what forces are available, what happened to the Baneblade in question, where the fixed Baneblade needs to go, and how safe the techpriests feel/how dangerous the mission is.

Something to remember is that Baneblades don't get stranded for no reason, and whatever caused it to be stranded may still be out there.

They just send in another baneblade

but really. Its probably a company of support vehicles running around tractoring it back

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as thjey always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

The Fortress of Arrogance is also a special baneblade. So that situation was rather extraordinary. Which is likely the reason for there not being much surprise over it. If it was just Baneblade #2471 then somebody might have said something.

There is no such thing as just Baneblade #2471. All Baneblades are unique, highly revered vehicles. Mars tracks the whereabouts and exploits of every single of its Baneblades and their crews in the galaxy, and so do the other few forgeworlds where Baneblades are made. Of course the Fortress of Arrogance had a special significance, but all Baneblades are sacred to the AdMech, which means that the Imperium is going to very, very great lengths to recover any of them.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as thjey always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

The Fortress of Arrogance is also a special baneblade. So that situation was rather extraordinary. Which is likely the reason for there not being much surprise over it. If it was just Baneblade #2471 then somebody might have said something.

There is no such thing as just Baneblade #2471. All Baneblades are unique, highly revered vehicles. Mars tracks the whereabouts and exploits of every single of its Baneblades and their crews in the galaxy, and so do the other few forgeworlds where Baneblades are made. Of course the Fortress of Arrogance had a special significance, but all Baneblades are sacred to the AdMech, which means that the Imperium is going to very, very great lengths to recover any of them.

Yes, and no.

Baneblades, the basic kind with the oversized battlecannon, are replaceable. They are revered and get special names, but they aren't irreplaceable. New Baneblades get made all the time. They're just insanely expensive so an existing baneblade is more valuable than making a new one from scratch. Some Baneblade variants are irreplaceable, but the bog standard Baneblade isn't like that. So yes. there can be Baneblade #2471. It will of course have a storied history, an actual name, etc... But it's less special than some other Baneblade chassis might be(such as a Shadowsword).

Baneblades are like how we in the US would view the USS Nimitz. It's expensive, it's got a name. It's got a storied history. And if it gets stranded we'll expend a lot of effort to get it back and functioning again. But it is ultimately replaceable. We could build a replacement Nimitz-class Aircraft carrier if the Nimitz ever got run around somewhere. But what would actually happen is we'd try to get it floating again.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as they always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

This makes no sense. Why would you send a Baneblade-class tank (the Shadowsword) on a suicide mission to recover a Baneblade-class tank? Even if you succeed you're just trading one loss for another. The only way this makes any sense is if everyone involved knows that it's a stupid thing to do, and there must be some other reason. They might not know about the AdMech and their plans, but they could easily accept that Yarrick is kind of a and will sacrifice anything to get his personal toy back and execute anyone who dares to disagree.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
We've already seen an example of this in lore.

When Yarrick's Baneblade was stranded on Golgotha, they mobilised an entire Cadian Army Group, about 30,000 men with artillery, tanks, Kasrkin, and a Shadowsword to recover the tank. Of course, things go wrong, and the AdMech have an ulterior motive, as they always do, but they men are pretty much there for that tank - and they all recognize it's a suicide mission. Given that no-one says "this is an abnormal amount of men", I think this might be standard for it's kind. However, this IS on Golgotha, a heavily Ork-controlled world, so that may have been the main reason for the large force.

This makes no sense. Why would you send a Baneblade-class tank (the Shadowsword) on a suicide mission to recover a Baneblade-class tank? Even if you succeed you're just trading one loss for another. The only way this makes any sense is if everyone involved knows that it's a stupid thing to do, and there must be some other reason. They might not know about the AdMech and their plans, but they could easily accept that Yarrick is kind of a and will sacrifice anything to get his personal toy back and execute anyone who dares to disagree.

I think the reason they risk so much is not just because it's a Baneblade (although that's a good reason in and of itself), but that fact it's YARRICK'S Baneblade, and then throw in the fact that the AdMech had some Xenotech they wanted recovering too (Necron, I think), you can see why it's more valuable.

Yarrick wasn't the one who requested the recovery, it was the Departmento Munitorum, who deemed that the recovery of the tank would be a massive morale boost to the men involved

Again, is it so different to people paying lots of money for vintage coins? This IS the Imperium, and bodies are cheaper than bullets.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, and no.

Baneblades, the basic kind with the oversized battlecannon, are replaceable. They are revered and get special names, but they aren't irreplaceable. New Baneblades get made all the time. They're just insanely expensive so an existing baneblade is more valuable than making a new one from scratch. Some Baneblade variants are irreplaceable, but the bog standard Baneblade isn't like that. So yes. there can be Baneblade #2471. It will of course have a storied history, an actual name, etc... But it's less special than some other Baneblade chassis might be(such as a Shadowsword).

Baneblades are like how we in the US would view the USS Nimitz. It's expensive, it's got a name. It's got a storied history. And if it gets stranded we'll expend a lot of effort to get it back and functioning again. But it is ultimately replaceable. We could build a replacement Nimitz-class Aircraft carrier if the Nimitz ever got run around somewhere. But what would actually happen is we'd try to get it floating again.

Exactly. The Baneblade is a valuable unit because it's expensive to replace them, but it isn't so absurdly valuable that it's worth taking massive losses to recover the burned-out wreckage of one. I mean, they give them to the DKoK and their mindless attrition warfare, they can't be all that irreplaceable.

When my Macharius Vulcan superheavy was destroyed in a game, we played a Kill Team game afterwards, with a small Scion force attempting to secure the superheavy's hull for possible repair. It was a nice narrative game and turned into a right nailbiter!

The Scions were successful in clearing the Eldar lingering around the former battlefield. After the Scions airdropped and secured a perimeter, the Regiment's Enginseer and Servitors were deployed to get the holy machine rolling again, and a Leman Russ company escorted it back to HQ.

Well, nothing like real world procedures to give an idea.
A neat read all the same.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/4-30-31/fm4-30-31.pdf
Those who made fun of sending in another Baneblade is actually one of the options:

FM 4-30.31 (FM 9-43-2) MCRP 4-11.4A (FMFRP 4-34) RECOVERY AND BATTLE DAMAGE ASSESSMENT AND REPAIR

RECOVERY 1-1. Recovery is retrieving, that is, freeing immobile, inoperative, or abandoned equipment from its current position and returning it to operation or to a maintenance site for repair.
These actions typically involve towing, lifting, or winching.
Towing is usually limited to moving equipment to the nearest unit maintenance collection point (UMCP). Recovery consists of—
Self-recovery: Actions require using only the equipment’s assets.
Like-recovery: Actions involve assistance from a second, like, or heavier class vehicle.
Dedicated-recovery: Actions require assistance from a vehicle specifically designed and dedicated to recovery operations. 1-2. Unless specifically mentioned, recovery tactics, techniques, and procedures, and doctrine, organization, training, materiel, leadership and education, personnel, and facilities considerations apply to both combat and noncombat range of military operations (ROMO).

SELF-RECOVERY 1-3. LIKE-RECOVERY 1-5. DEDICATED RECOVERY 1-6. CANNIBALIZATION 6-44. CONTROLLED EXCHANGE 6-46. Pretty simple "guidelines" but gives a good framework for the process.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, and no.

Baneblades, the basic kind with the oversized battlecannon, are replaceable. They are revered and get special names, but they aren't irreplaceable. New Baneblades get made all the time. They're just insanely expensive so an existing baneblade is more valuable than making a new one from scratch. Some Baneblade variants are irreplaceable, but the bog standard Baneblade isn't like that. So yes. there can be Baneblade #2471. It will of course have a storied history, an actual name, etc... But it's less special than some other Baneblade chassis might be(such as a Shadowsword).

Baneblades are like how we in the US would view the USS Nimitz. It's expensive, it's got a name. It's got a storied history. And if it gets stranded we'll expend a lot of effort to get it back and functioning again. But it is ultimately replaceable. We could build a replacement Nimitz-class Aircraft carrier if the Nimitz ever got run around somewhere. But what would actually happen is we'd try to get it floating again.

Exactly. The Baneblade is a valuable unit because it's expensive to replace them, but it isn't so absurdly valuable that it's worth taking massive losses to recover the burned-out wreckage of one. I mean, they give them to the DKoK and their mindless attrition warfare, they can't be all that irreplaceable.

They can't be that valuable. After all, Vance Motherfething Stubbs lost 100 Baneblades in Dawn of War.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, and no.

Baneblades, the basic kind with the oversized battlecannon, are replaceable. They are revered and get special names, but they aren't irreplaceable. New Baneblades get made all the time. They're just insanely expensive so an existing baneblade is more valuable than making a new one from scratch. Some Baneblade variants are irreplaceable, but the bog standard Baneblade isn't like that. So yes. there can be Baneblade #2471. It will of course have a storied history, an actual name, etc... But it's less special than some other Baneblade chassis might be(such as a Shadowsword).

Baneblades are like how we in the US would view the USS Nimitz. It's expensive, it's got a name. It's got a storied history. And if it gets stranded we'll expend a lot of effort to get it back and functioning again. But it is ultimately replaceable. We could build a replacement Nimitz-class Aircraft carrier if the Nimitz ever got run around somewhere. But what would actually happen is we'd try to get it floating again.

Exactly. The Baneblade is a valuable unit because it's expensive to replace them, but it isn't so absurdly valuable that it's worth taking massive losses to recover the burned-out wreckage of one. I mean, they give them to the DKoK and their mindless attrition warfare, they can't be all that irreplaceable.

They can't be that valuable. After all, Vance Motherfething Stubbs lost 100 Baneblades in Dawn of War.

That's enough Baneblades for 100 regiments seeing as they get 1 per regiment apparently.