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We all know the story of Draigo carving names into Morty's heart, but could he actually stand a chance on the tabletop in a 1-on-1 fight?

Now that we have Morty's rules, we can put the fluff to the test

I assume not, but I'm also not sure. Draigo is built for destroying daemons, and could have some "remove from play" shenanniggans up his power sleeve (I don't have his rules).

MOving to the 40k forum

Draigo beat Morty after carving through the last Grand Master and his Paladins, so take away a bunch of wounds for that. Then Draigo pulled out his True Name, so reduce his stats down a whole load and... well.

Well Morty is a 14 year old boy so he's not much of a challenge but grandpa rick will wreck his day.

But Draigo is the greatest living loyalist and full of shenanigans. He would solo the Warp if he wanted to.

 Arkaine wrote:
But Draigo is the greatest living loyalist and full of shenanigans. He would solo the Warp if he wanted to.

He has soloed the Warp. The dork has been lost in there for Omnissiah knows how long, and he basically just stared at the demons and did that thing the big bully does where he makes a sudden aggressive move and then laughs at you when you jump defensively.

Doing the math:
Draigo Deep Strikes near Morty. He succesfully manifests Smite and Hammerhand, doing 2 wounds to Morty with the Smite. Then he charges, hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s. Morty only gets a 5+ Invuln and 5+ FNP, and takes 6 wounds - 8 total. Not bad at all!
Then Morty squishes him. Whichever weapon he uses, it amounts to 4ish wounds. Then his Psychic phase does another 4-5 Mortal Wounds, then his shooting does another wound, then his close combat does another 4-5 wounds.

Barring incredibly bad luck, no, Morty will not lose this fight.

You forgot Draigo's plot armor save, which is taken after his normal save, works on a 2+ and is rerollable. He also turns all of his attacks into 2D6 mortal wounds against Morty if you start reciting passages from the 5th edition Grey Knight Codex.

Not to mention he gets bonuses to all of his stats if you chant verses from the Book of Ward before the game.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Not to mention he gets bonuses to all of his stats if you chant verses from the Book of Ward before the game.

I thought that was the 5th Edition Grey Knights Codex. Or are we talking an Ultramarines book?

Well, it depends on who you ask. I.e, Whether you ask Ward or not.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Doing the math:
Draigo Deep Strikes near Morty. He succesfully manifests Smite and Hammerhand, doing 2 wounds to Morty with the Smite. Then he charges, hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s. Morty only gets a 5+ Invuln and 5+ FNP, and takes 6 wounds - 8 total. Not bad at all!
Then Morty squishes him. Whichever weapon he uses, it amounts to 4ish wounds. Then his Psychic phase does another 4-5 Mortal Wounds, then his shooting does another wound, then his close combat does another 4-5 wounds.

Barring incredibly bad luck, no, Morty will not lose this fight.

Mortrarian has a 4++ with his Barbarian Plate.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Doing the math:
Draigo Deep Strikes near Morty. He succesfully manifests Smite and Hammerhand, doing 2 wounds to Morty with the Smite. Then he charges, hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s. Morty only gets a 5+ Invuln and 5+ FNP, and takes 6 wounds - 8 total. Not bad at all!
Then Morty squishes him. Whichever weapon he uses, it amounts to 4ish wounds. Then his Psychic phase does another 4-5 Mortal Wounds, then his shooting does another wound, then his close combat does another 4-5 wounds.

Barring incredibly bad luck, no, Morty will not lose this fight.

Mortrarian has a 4++ with his Barbarian Plate.

He is assuming Draigo is the warlord in this scenario, and his warlord trait reduces the invuln of Daemons by -1. So it's a 5++ in this instance.

Draigo expects to lose this fight badly.

However if he spikes, and you pay the CP to fight twice, it's entirely possible for Draigo to kill Morty, but it's very unlikely. And that 6 is really a 6.3, so if you fight twice it comes out to 12.6, which if we're rounding would go to 13. Still, Draigo loses.

What if other GK Buff Draigo him with Hammerhand and Sanctuary?

 Nerak wrote:
What if other GK Buff Draigo him with Hammerhand and Sanctuary?

Can't sanctuary draigo.

Still, what if you 2+ invuln him with command points? I would frankly go for vortex and hammerhand if morty is t8+ if he's not then I'd vortex and smite.

Also draigo is pretty good at denying morty's powers.

 Nerak wrote:
What if other GK Buff Draigo him with Hammerhand and Sanctuary?

Draigo cannot receive the benefits of Sanctuary as it cannot make an invulnerable save better than 3++. Besides, Draigo will most likely get curbed in the following psychic phase.

If someone else casts hammerhand on Draigo, he could use his second power for an attempted Purge Soul or Vortex of Doom. In either case the expected wounds is very low.

Astral Aim and Gate of Infinity do nothing for him in this scenario, so those are the only 2 powers left.

 Marmatag wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Doing the math:
Draigo Deep Strikes near Morty. He succesfully manifests Smite and Hammerhand, doing 2 wounds to Morty with the Smite. Then he charges, hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s. Morty only gets a 5+ Invuln and 5+ FNP, and takes 6 wounds - 8 total. Not bad at all!
Then Morty squishes him. Whichever weapon he uses, it amounts to 4ish wounds. Then his Psychic phase does another 4-5 Mortal Wounds, then his shooting does another wound, then his close combat does another 4-5 wounds.

Barring incredibly bad luck, no, Morty will not lose this fight.

Mortrarian has a 4++ with his Barbarian Plate.

He is assuming Draigo is the warlord in this scenario, and his warlord trait reduces the invuln of Daemons by -1. So it's a 5++ in this instance.

Draigo expects to lose this fight badly.

However if he spikes, and you pay the CP to fight twice, it's entirely possible for Draigo to kill Morty, but it's very unlikely. And that 6 is really a 6.3, so if you fight twice it comes out to 12.6, which if we're rounding would go to 13. Still, Draigo loses.

Spend one more CP when Mortarion inevitably kills Draigo and he gets to fight again. Wounds go to 19, not including the Smite. Dead Morty, I think.

 Herodius wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Doing the math:
Draigo Deep Strikes near Morty. He succesfully manifests Smite and Hammerhand, doing 2 wounds to Morty with the Smite. Then he charges, hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s. Morty only gets a 5+ Invuln and 5+ FNP, and takes 6 wounds - 8 total. Not bad at all!
Then Morty squishes him. Whichever weapon he uses, it amounts to 4ish wounds. Then his Psychic phase does another 4-5 Mortal Wounds, then his shooting does another wound, then his close combat does another 4-5 wounds.

Barring incredibly bad luck, no, Morty will not lose this fight.

Mortrarian has a 4++ with his Barbarian Plate.

He is assuming Draigo is the warlord in this scenario, and his warlord trait reduces the invuln of Daemons by -1. So it's a 5++ in this instance.

Draigo expects to lose this fight badly.

However if he spikes, and you pay the CP to fight twice, it's entirely possible for Draigo to kill Morty, but it's very unlikely. And that 6 is really a 6.3, so if you fight twice it comes out to 12.6, which if we're rounding would go to 13. Still, Draigo loses.

Spend one more CP when Mortarion inevitably kills Draigo and he gets to fight again. Wounds go to 19, not including the Smite. Dead Morty, I think.

If we're giving Draigo 4CP we'd have to give some to Morty as well. Rerolling saves, or rerolling to deny smite, or hammerhand, or one of the new DG stratagems.

Yeah, I made some assumptions with my mathhammer:
Draigo goes first (Since he attacks from out of the blue. This mostly matters because Morty can't buff himself with Miasma of Pestilence and Putrescant Vitality, making himself effectively unkillable as far as Draigo is concerned)
No Command Points for re-rolls or other abilities.
All psychic powers manifest succesfully and are not denied.
Draigo makes his charge succesfully.

That last one is especially important, since it's the least likely: More than half the time, Draigo will whiff his charge and get absolutely slaughtered by Morty with zero recourse.

Glorious Draigo

I'd risk it on the tabletop with this math, it's worth the trade if he has a squad with him

Does morty have some buffs to getting off powers? Because Draigo can deny like A MF with +1 to deny - which can be made worse with strategems.

Assuming that Draigo hit's with all 5 attacks, wounds 5 times, Mortarion fails to save any wounds and fails all his DR saves - the most that Draigo can dish out is 15 wounds (Titansword is 3dmg a piece)

So technically no, because in almost all instances Mortarion will 1 shot Draigo in return.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Does morty have some buffs to getting off powers? Because Draigo can deny like A MF with +1 to deny - which can be made worse with strategems.

+1 just means that he'll win on a tie instead of losing on a tie. It's noteable, but not enough to significantly change the outcome here.
(Also, we're not including Strategems here. They add waaaay too many variables that make the mathhammer difficult to predict, but also don't significantly change things, with the exception of Draigo using 'Attack Twice + Attack upon Death', but that means Morty also has to get 4 Command Points to balance things out, which means he gets to reroll 4 failed saves, which reduces the damage he takes from 18 wounds (+2 from an earlier Smite, for a total of 20) to 14 wounds (+2, for a total of 16.) Not enough to win, and Morty will still obliterate Draigo in return.)

The point is the best daemon killing model in the game stands no realistic chance at killing a daemon primarch. As intended? Who knows. Probably. If you think Grey Knights are a hard-counter to daemons, guess again.

His planet needs him...

How much more does Morty cost, and what can you get with those points to back up Draigo?

Hmm, I have three theories:

1) Draigo should be FAQed to be better against daemons and psychic powers. It's obvious that his rules are currently unfluffy.

2) Then again, Draigo didn't actually kill Mortarion in the fluff. He merely humiliated him. In game terms, this would probably be akin to using a bunch of Command Points to: a) merely tie Mortarion to melee, b) surviving it and c) ultimately winning by scenario because a) & b) limit Mortarion's influence to the battle.

3) It's Mortarion who has unfluffy rules and they are heralding an age of power creep. I recently read an old White Dwarf where they released Angron's rules. Man... he was a total push over when compared to 8th edition's Magnus and Mortarion.

RedCommander wrote:
Hmm, I have three theories:

1) Draigo should be FAQed to be better against daemons and psychic powers. It's obvious that his rules are currently unfluffy.

2) Then again, Draigo didn't actually kill Mortarion in the fluff. He merely humiliated him. In game terms, this would probably be akin to using a bunch of Command Points to: a) merely tie Mortarion to melee, b) surviving it and c) ultimately winning by scenario because a) & b) limit Mortarion's influence to the battle.

3) It's Mortarion who has unfluffy rules and they are heralding an age of power creep. I recently read an old White Dwarf where they released Angron's rules. Man... he was a total push over when compared to 8th edition's Magnus and Mortarion.

But Draigo and papa smurf are not power creep, amirite?

Killing a Daemon Primarch of 450+ points in actual game? I think you need Draigo and a Grand Master in Dreadknight wielding great daemon hammer to barely do it. Want more reliability? Need to get Voldus in there as well!

hobojebus wrote:
Well Morty is a 14 year old boy so he's not much of a challenge but grandpa rick will wreck his day.

Actually, morty almost choked out tiny rick, so if they were evenly sized it'd be a fair fight.