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Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

A few folk on here will suspect I have a bias on this situation, and they'd be right, I firmly believe in self-determination and support the Catalan movement for independence from Spain(as I support the Kurds, and any other group who choose to peacefully self-organise and democratically demand political autonomy). But we're past the point where this can be about individual biases on semi-related political questions like Scottish independence, this is about a member of the European Union attempting to repress democracy with intimidation and violence.

Rajoy's government have used every possible method to try and prevent this referendum - arresting Catalan officials, having the Constitutional Court declare the basic idea of a referendum illegal, having other courts demand that websites be shut down and apps be removed from Google's service, suspending the finances of the Catalan parliament, even charging participants and organisers of entirely peaceful marches in support of Catalan independence with "sedition" - fething sedition for marching down a road with a sign - but they failed, the vote began this morning.

Many folk thought that would be it, that their bluff had been called, their posturing faced down, and now democracy would take its course one way or the other.

They were wrong, because the spirit of Franco is alive and well in Spain.

At some polling stations, people queuing to vote were "kettled" and then violently dispersed by the Guarda Civil(Spain's paramilitarised state police)

https://twitter.com/GissiSim/status/914406213701574656

Attempts to reach polling stations to vote have been met with GC cordons, any who did make it in before their arrival grabbed and hurled out:

https://twitter.com/lidiamroca/status/914414111198498816

At others, after forcing their way inside, they seized ballot boxes and papers to be destroyed:

https://twitter.com/GissiSim/status/914407872389435393





People gathering to march in support of the referendum were met with orders to disperse and the firing of rubber bullets and balls.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/914409076720676864

Others attempted to prevent their local polling stations from being raided by gathering at the entrances and sitting down to block them. This was the result:












This isn't about whether or not you support Catalonia seceeding from Spain, or indepenence movements in general - this is about whether or not you support fascism. I'd urge anyone in an EU member state to email your reps urging them to step in and condemn the Spanish state's behaviour, get on social media and add to the calls to the EU Commission and Parliament to do the same. A supposedly modern democracy in 2017 is using a paramilitary force to violently prevent a democratic vote - if we let this stand unremarked then words like democracy cease to have any real meaning.



I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

These photos will play to the independence movement. That an unofficial but peaceful referendum was shut down by the government using this level of force shows how much they fear Catalonia.

16% of Spain's population live in Catalonia, and it produces:

25.6% of Spain's exports
19% of Spain's GDP
20.7% of foreign investment


These figures I got from the BBC say it all. An area of the country more than pulls its weight per head of capita in investment, exports and wealth creation.

'Modern democracy' in Spain is only 40 years old, many of those in government grew up under Franco so you can see why the old ways of doing things are not that much of a stretch.
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Indeed. As evidenced yesterday in Madrid when crowds waving Spanish flags came to see off columns of Guarda Civil with chants along the lines of "go get em", the Francoist national anthem, and Nazi salutes. I think many people don't expect better from Spain, but I certainly expect better from the EU and its other constituent nations.

And a small note for anyone else who might be relying on the sterling journalism of the BBC for your news of these events:



They describe that as "clashes". As if they're talking about Black Bloc anarchists engaging in running battles with the police at a G8 protest.

EDIT: Hahaha, brilliant. Now seeing reports that the Catalan fire service has come out in full gear and are cordoning off GC forces attempting to prevent voting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/01 11:12:42


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

Shocking stuff, there are videos on the guardian pages with police throwing and dragging people around, hitting and kicking them, when all they're doing is standing or sitting around. What do they intend on escalating to if a crowd fights back?
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Yup. And not content with assaulting old ladies, they've moved on to 15 year old kids:


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

I have a live feed on ff guardian that was on my post.
Spain is going down enough hard.

Spain should have learned how UK handled Scotland.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

No surprise to see the EU fall in behind the Spanish government.

It's risible nonsense for the Spanish government to suggest that passing a law can stop somebody's right to self-determination. Follow through on the logic of that and you'll see why.

The UN and international law also rejects it.

The tragedy here is that the Spanish government have just told Catalonia not to bother going down the democratic route...

The irony is that if they had granted a legal referendum, they probably would have won it...

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Coming from a country that seceded from Yugoslavia in my lifetime, I am currently experiencing incoherent rage. This is full blown fascism.

Posters on ignore list: 36

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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Now even they allowed a legal one. They stoked up the anger furnaces to full power.

If they had allowed it yes. Good chance of winning.
Now. They instead have a Spanish government sending in riot police to beat up civilians, attacking polling stations and least one person has maybe lost a eye.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RAF_IFA/status/914423016708243456/video/1

Fire fighters video. They peacefully defending the local people

.thr UK allowed Scotland to vote. We have allowed Falklands to vote.
We allowed a EU vote.

The"bad guys" of EU least respect our people more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 11:39:57


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

Spain should have learned how UK handled Scotland.

Yea that's what I thought as well, I don't agree with what the Catalonians are doing but the Castilians must realise this is adding fuel to the fire.
Sometimes you have to let the referendum happen and just make the arguments that we are better off united that splintering into little states.

Then again, the Castilians seem to have repressed the Basque revolt without giving any ground, so maybe they know better than us how to deal with separatists in their own country!
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Kroem wrote:
Spain should have learned how UK handled Scotland.

Yea that's what I thought as well, I don't agree with what the Catalonians are doing but the Castilians must realise this is adding fuel to the fire.
Sometimes you have to let the referendum happen and just make the arguments that we are better off united that splintering into little states.

Then again, the Castilians seem to have repressed the Basque revolt without giving any ground, so maybe they know better than us how to deal with separatists in their own country!


Yeah. Now the image of Spain is Jack booted riot police, wounded kids and old people, smashed in polling stations and black clad ranks of police.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Is anyone really surprised that this level of violence and suppression is occurring? And from within an EU member state?

Shocking as the individual acts of brutality are they have been telegraphed for months. It was always going to happen this way.










Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jhe90 wrote:
 Kroem wrote:
Spain should have learned how UK handled Scotland.

Yea that's what I thought as well, I don't agree with what the Catalonians are doing but the Castilians must realise this is adding fuel to the fire.
Sometimes you have to let the referendum happen and just make the arguments that we are better off united that splintering into little states.

Then again, the Castilians seem to have repressed the Basque revolt without giving any ground, so maybe they know better than us how to deal with separatists in their own country!


Yeah. Now the image of Spain is Jack booted riot police, wounded kids and old people, smashed in polling stations and black clad ranks of police.


That has been an image since Franco. Spain hasnt really changed that much.

Portugal and Greece still have issues with their past.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 11:44:35


 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

I love how our world class British media are portraying this as 'clashes' when it's clear that only one side is doing the fighting.

So glad I don't pay the TV licence anymore. BBC news is an utter disgrace.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I love how our world class British media are portraying this as 'clashes' when it's clear that only one side is doing the fighting.

So glad I don't pay the TV licence anymore. BBC news is an utter disgrace.


You mean the biased broadcasting corporation.

Course they toe the EU line...

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





The problem Spain has is that if it went ahead (even if the vote was to stay) is that it would be quickly followed by at least two other regions. I don't think they handled it well, but I also can see why they fear the political instability and the breakdown of Spain as a functioning country if this went ahead.

 insaniak wrote:
Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 Steve steveson wrote:
The problem Spain has is that if it went ahead (even if the vote was to stay) is that it would be quickly followed by at least two other regions. I don't think they handled it well, but I also can see why they fear the political instability and the breakdown of Spain as a functioning country if this went ahead.


I look forward to the EU taking special measures against Spain. After all, they were quick to act against Hungary and Poland.

I won't hold my breathe.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Jesus Christ. Some of this footage is revolting. Wherever you sit on Catalonian independence, this is full on violent repression by the state. I'm sitting here watching videos of police with truncheons laying into civilians with their hands up. If this had happened here over the Scottish referendum, I'd have been in the street. I mean seriously, this is a disgusting affront against democracy, against peaceful governance, and every level of human rights and dignity. The Spanish Government very clearly deserves to be removed and replaced after this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 12:10:29



 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Glasgow, Scotland

 jhe90 wrote:


Spain should have learned how UK handled Scotland.


Not to be OT, but how they "handled" Scotland was to allow for voting, but for the government and the media to spread disinformation. Besides the false figures the BBC was broadcasting fake and heavily edited news during the run up to the vote.

Just goes to show how scared countries are of secession. Though its hardly like we're past military responses.

Though yeah, we're right to criticise the BBC. People look to them as being one of the better news sources, though that's hardly the case. They downplay and don't report on many things, and their agenda's fairly clear most of the time. Not as bad as many other outlets (RT), but the outright lies that they broadcast at times make me avoid them as a source as I can't trust what they're saying.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 12:21:12


 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Wyrmalla wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:


Spain should have learned how UK handled Scotland.


Not to be OT, but how they "handled" Scotland was to allow for voting, but for the government and the media to spread disinformation. Besides the false figures the BBC was broadcasting fake and heavily edited news during the run up to the vote.

Just goes to show how scared countries are of secession. Though its hardly like we're past military responses.

Disinformation went two ways, the SNP were hardly above muckracking and putting out distorted figures. Regardless of which, the fact remains that a free vote was held, and the result would have been adhered to. For a country to engage in active violent repression of their population for trying to express the right to self determination is abhorrent on every level.

If the EU does not issue admonitions of the strongest type to the Spanish Government, it will speak volumes about their actual commitments to their founding principles.


 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Spain should have allowed the referendum. It is not like the Catalans who want independence were an overwhelming majority. The population is split pretty evenly afaik. With some good arguments and lots of propaganda, they could have probably swung it in their favour, silencing the independence movement for a good while.
But behaviour like this only makes the situation worse for Spain. It turns people who would otherwise have supported Spain away and towards the independence movement. Repression may help for a short while, it may be able to prevent this referendum, but in the long term it massively increases sympathy and support for Catalan independence. This will come back to bite them later.

Worst thing about this is that if they close off peaceful, democratic ways of gaining independence, then the only possible outcome is going to be civil war.


Also, this little gem is from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live
Belgium PM condemns referendum violence

Belgium prime minister Charles Michel has spoken out against the violence and called for political violence.

He is the first world leader to do so.

Yeah, I can imagine he is the first leader to do that

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 12:39:50


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

If UDI is declared, then the gak really will hit the fan, and the UN and the EU would have to get involved.


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41453955

Lesser non PM level has spoken too, but National level leadership none the less.

Spoiler:

Nicola Sturgeon has said she is "increasingly concerned" about images from Catalonia as Spanish police try to halt an independence referendum.
Police have seized ballot papers at polling stations and there are reports of rubber bullets fired in Barcelona.
In a tweet the first minister said all should condemn the scenes "regardless of views on independence".
She urged Spain's government to allow the poll, which was declared illegal by the country's constitutional court.
And she called on the Spanish authorities to "change course before someone is seriously hurt".
Clashes as voters defy independence vote ban
Why these are uncharted waters for Spain
Spain's move to halt Catalan vote
Thousands of Catalan independence supporters have occupied schools and other buildings designated as polling stations in order to keep them open.
In Girona, riot police smashed their way into a polling station where Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont was due to vote.
However, Mr Puigdemont was still able to cast his ballot at another polling station.
Skip Twitter post by @NicolaSturgeon
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Nicola Sturgeon ✔@NicolaSturgeon
1/2 Increasingly concerned by images from #Catalonia. Regardless of views on independence, we should all condemn the scenes being witnessed
11:19 AM - Oct 1, 2017
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2/2 and call on Spain to change course before someone is seriously hurt. Let people vote peacefully.
11:20 AM - Oct 1, 2017
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Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson also commented on events in Catalonia, urging dialogue to avoid violence.
She said: "Everyone will be shocked by the disturbing scenes coming from Catalonia. It is clear that this is a fast-moving situation, but we would urge the authorities to exercise restraint. Nobody wants to see people hurt.
"If the situation in Catalonia is to be resolved, the answer will come through dialogue and diplomacy, and not through violence."

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Wrexham, North Wales

Channel 4's reporting on the subject:

https://www.channel4.com/news/snps-douglas-chapman-in-catalan-to-ensure-unhindered-independence-vote
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

I dread to think what Trump's reaction to this will be...

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I dread to think what Trump's reaction to this will be...


does car crash of septic tanker and manure truck head on cover it?

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







You know the part I don't get?

I can understand the central government not wanting this to go through and take measures against it. But I don't understand the zeal of the police, the eagerness to take every opportunity to beat up on old ladies. Who are these people? Are they grown in vats, programmed from youth to be brainless robots?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 13:21:24


Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You know the part I don't get?

I can understand the central government not wanting this to go through and take measures against it. But I don't understand the zeal of the police, the eagerness to take every opportunity to beat up on old ladies. Who are these people? Are they grown in vats, programmed from youth to be brainless robots?

it
Also even if they voted and all, it aint legal refarendom. it had no Legal value in Spanish law and they could of maybe trhown some tax powers or somthing, had some BS talks or such, kinda made them think they got somthing when they got all of the sum total of nil to low.

Beat them with brains not batons.,

But spain just loves smashing in there own citizens skulls every now and again to sate the anger of there seeming profeshinal thug department.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/01 13:26:08


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I dread to think what Trump's reaction to this will be...



4 iron drive from the 5th, goes off course and winds up in a bunker.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 lord_blackfang wrote:
You know the part I don't get?

I can understand the central government not wanting this to go through and take measures against it. But I don't understand the zeal of the police, the eagerness to take every opportunity to beat up on old ladies. Who are these people? Are they grown in vats, programmed from youth to be brainless robots?


Aren't the Police who are being tasked with shutting down the referendum drawn from the national/Federal police forces (Guarda Civil?)? The local Police forces in Catelonia are not involved as I understand it. If this was America, it'd be like the FBI and other Feds being sent in to shut down an illegal Vote being carried out by one of the States and the local Police forces being ordered to stand down. If that is indeed the case, and these Police officers originate from outside Catelonia, then their personal loyalties and sympathies are probably with the wider nation of Spain, and not Catelonia. Like the rest of the Spanish population outside Catelonia, they too don't want Catelonian independence. Its personal bias.


This whole thing is despicable. I didn't want Scotland to break away from the UK and become independent, but I fully respected their democratic right to hold a referendum and follow through with Independence. Spain should do the same.


Independent American journalist and Youtuber Tim Pool is on the ground covering the events and interviewing people. Check out his channel, he's great for this sort of thing (he covered UC Berkely, Charlottesville, G20, etc).

CATALONIA, INDEPENDENCE, AND THE COMING REFERENDUM
CRACKDOWN ON CATALONIA AS POLICE MOVE TO BLOCK THE VOTE
LIVE: Outside an occupied school in Barcelona, independence vote hours away
LIVE NOW: Police in #Barcelona blocking the vote # CatalanReferendum
LIVE NOW: LARGE ANTI REFERENDUM PROTEST GETS VIOLENT
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

While I agree that the central government is going eerily fascist, you can't just declare referenda because you want to. It's not like the Catalan independence side is respecting democratic principles either. They didn't get a 2/3rd majority in the Catalan parliament that the referendum requires according to the Catalan (note Catalan, not Spanish) constitution. You don't get to ignore your own constitution just because it's inconvenient.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
 
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