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So since whole chapters of Primaris are being created, do they still fundamentally use scouts as their initiatives? I didn't see any mention of scouts during the Dark Imperium novel, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Do Primaris marines start out as full primaris when they "come out of the can" as it were, or do they still go through a scout phase as they adapt to their geneseed?

They start out in power armour - Blood Claw style.

But then there's the question of Reivers. Are they 'scouts' or just a different flavour of Marine?

Primaris Marines are super special lab grown. I would assume that any "new" ones created after the fact might go though the whole scout thing, we don't know yet.

Knowing how Gulliman hates how the Codex literally ruined the Imperium and how Cawl is super snobby, I would think they don't anymore.

 anyname121 wrote:
But then there's the question of Reivers. Are they 'scouts' or just a different flavour of Marine?

They're a different flavor of Marine.

Effectively Reivers are a mixture of Wolf Scouts and Assault/Vanguard Squads. They want to get in close for their aura to modify enemy casualty effects and their weapons are short ranged.
Aggressors are a bizarre mixture of Terminators, Centurions, and Devastators. They can hold a spot but they're basically made to deal with infantry.
Inceptors and are filling a role like the Sternguard and Bikers. They move, they shoot, and boop.
Hellblasters are basically a Sternguard Combi-Plasma Squad without the Boltguns.

My hope (and head Canon) is that Primaris Marines are the last step in a Space Marines career path. Scout - Devastator - assault - tactical - veteran - terminator - Primaris.

That would be logical - something along the lines once a marines progenoid glands are mature he can be upgraded to primaries?

nocliper101 wrote:
My hope (and head Canon) is that Primaris Marines are the last step in a Space Marines career path. Scout - Devastator - assault - tactical - veteran - terminator - Primaris.

Sadly that isn't the case. The Newly formed Primaris marine chapters still recruit from worlds, which means they train Initiates to become Scouts. Then the scouts get the full body treatment and become a Primaris Marine instead of a Marine.

nocliper101 wrote:
My hope (and head Canon) is that Primaris Marines are the last step in a Space Marines career path. Scout - Devastator - assault - tactical - veteran - terminator - Primaris.

"Well done Brother Gustaf. You have at last completed all your training. You've learned the art of stealth and ambush, the value of heavy firepower, the bloody glory of close assault, the strategic value of mediocrity, the advantage of actually using the weapons in the armory, and the strength of our greatest armor.

Now here, put on this new suit of Cawl brand armor, wield your Cawl brand bolter and get back out there to secure objectives. No, I'm sorry you can't take your plasma rifle with you. No, you can't keep the terminator armor. NO, you can't take that melta bomb, put it back. PUT IT BACK Brother Gustaf!

And if I see you stealthing in with the scouts, you'll be getting a severe talking to. And don't even THINK about riding in a Rhino! Intercessors walk or ride in Repulsors.

No damn it, stay out of the storm raven. I don't care if it can carry a dreadnought, you're not allowed inside."

To be a Primaris marine, you need to be a marine, first of all.
So the obvious (and correct) answer is that Primaris marines still start off as scouts and progress normally, adding the three primaris enhancements around the final stages of transformation. Primaris marines don't just skip being scouts unless maybe they were the ones grown in vats.

Oh, and reivers are not scout equivalents. I don't really understand how people can think reivers are anything close to scouts. In very simple terms ,scouts are noobs and reivers are experts


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nocliper101 wrote:
My hope (and head Canon) is that Primaris Marines are the last step in a Space Marines career path. Scout - Devastator - assault - tactical - veteran - terminator - Primaris.

Primaris isn't a rank. Primaris are just the evolutionary descendants of 41st millennium space marines.

In my mind primaris marines have all the regular roles of classics, like Tacticals and terminators, with the added unit types like you see on the tabletop

Well the Primaris still have all the same organs as a Space Marine, with three extra that make them into Primaris.

Cawl has demonstrated that you can vat grow them like the Emperor did. However, Primaris tech has also been disseminated to the individual chapters.
I can't believe that the chapters would completely change the process of preparation, training, contemplation, induction into chapter rites etc. that the 'scouting' process represents unless under the most extreme of pressures.

I expect that scouts still exist for the major chapters with the extra Primaris organs being implanted at the end of this process.

 Kroem wrote:
Well the Primaris still have all the same organs as a Space Marine, with three extra that make them into Primaris.

Cawl has demonstrated that you can vat grow them like the Emperor did. However, Primaris tech has also been disseminated to the individual chapters.
I can't believe that the chapters would completely change the process of preparation, training, contemplation, induction into chapter rites etc. that the 'scouting' process represents unless under the most extreme of pressures.

I expect that scouts still exist for the major chapters with the extra Primaris organs being implanted at the end of this process.

But would they be normal space marine scouts, or some sort of new Primaris scout?

Well they are normal scouts for the time that they are undergoing implantation of the original 19 Space marine organs, this happens over the course of a long time accompanied by intensive training.

Once one or more of the three new Priamris organs are implanted (see recent White Dwarf article) they effectively become a sort of 'Primaris scout'.
I've assumed that the implantation of Primaris organs would come at the end of the process.
The article talks about the new organs interacting with or enhancing the existing space marine organs, so you would imagine the scouts body would have to be used to the normal function of these organs first before they were turned up to 11!

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Primaris Marines are super special lab grown. I would assume that any "new" ones created after the fact might go though the whole scout thing, we don't know yet.

Knowing how Gulliman hates how the Codex literally ruined the Imperium and how Cawl is super snobby, I would think they don't anymore.

This is what I’m thinking of at the moment. We don’t have enough information about this subject.

 argonak wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Well the Primaris still have all the same organs as a Space Marine, with three extra that make them into Primaris.

Cawl has demonstrated that you can vat grow them like the Emperor did. However, Primaris tech has also been disseminated to the individual chapters.
I can't believe that the chapters would completely change the process of preparation, training, contemplation, induction into chapter rites etc. that the 'scouting' process represents unless under the most extreme of pressures.

I expect that scouts still exist for the major chapters with the extra Primaris organs being implanted at the end of this process.

But would they be normal space marine scouts, or some sort of new Primaris scout?

It depends on what stage you implant the new organs at. If it's subsequent to the previous set, then the initiation for a Scout would be the same. If anything, a Scout's training period would be extended to compensate for the additional period of adaptation time.

Alternatively, you might find that the new modifications to make them grow larger are implemented midway in the previous process, in which case you'd have 'Primaris Scouts' which are bigger and better.

What it really comes down to is whether or not GW want to invalidate their older Scout kit. So I'm going to go with the former.

 Ketara wrote:

 argonak wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
Well the Primaris still have all the same organs as a Space Marine, with three extra that make them into Primaris.

Cawl has demonstrated that you can vat grow them like the Emperor did. However, Primaris tech has also been disseminated to the individual chapters.
I can't believe that the chapters would completely change the process of preparation, training, contemplation, induction into chapter rites etc. that the 'scouting' process represents unless under the most extreme of pressures.

I expect that scouts still exist for the major chapters with the extra Primaris organs being implanted at the end of this process.

But would they be normal space marine scouts, or some sort of new Primaris scout?

It depends on what stage you implant the new organs at. If it's subsequent to the previous set, then the initiation for a Scout would be the same. If anything, a Scout's training period would be extended to compensate for the additional period of adaptation time.

Alternatively, you might find that the new modifications to make them grow larger are implemented midway in the previous process, in which case you'd have 'Primaris Scouts' which are bigger and better.

What it really comes down to is whether or not GW want to invalidate their older Scout kit. So I'm going to go with the former.

And that's really what I'm getting at, does it make sense that a Primaris chapter would have a bunch of scouts deploying with it?

 argonak wrote:
And that's really what I'm getting at, does it make sense that a Primaris chapter would have a bunch of scouts deploying with it?

At this point it's unknown how they organise their First or Tenth companies, and we can only really guess at the rest.

Animus wrote:

 argonak wrote:
And that's really what I'm getting at, does it make sense that a Primaris chapter would have a bunch of scouts deploying with it?

At this point it's unknown how they organise their First or Tenth companies, and we can only really guess at the rest.

I'd not be too suprised to see a "primaris phase 2" in 2018 rolled out with space wolves and death watch

I was really disappointed how there was basically nothing about the organisation of the Primaris only chapters in the codex.

Question.

Just looking at getting back into the game so I'm unsure of the recent fluff.

How do the existing Marines feel about the Primus marines. Surely a batch of vat grown warriors is heresy?

Also won't they be a bunch of newbies with all the toys but no combat experience?

 Crimson wrote:
I was really disappointed how there was basically nothing about the organisation of the Primaris only chapters in the codex.

Me too, I'm hoping we'll see this addressed in the future. as it is though it almost feels like GW ius moving away from "THIS is how X is orginized"

DaHedd wrote:
Question.

Just looking at getting back into the game so I'm unsure of the recent fluff.

How do the existing Marines feel about the Primus marines. Surely a batch of vat grown warriors is heresy?

Also won't they be a bunch of newbies with all the toys but no combat experience?

They have never been vat grown, they're made just like old marines.

I would think that they'd be scouts then become primaris, or the normal progression through "space marine hood" depending on the needs and views of the chapter.

I really wish there was an option the codex to upgrade the scout sergeant to have Primaris stats.

I wish they'd give us more fluff on how Primaris are integrating into regular chapters, how they are made beyond the initial batch, and (importantly) if a regular marine can be upgraded to Primaris.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I wish they'd give us more fluff on how Primaris are integrating into regular chapters, how they are made beyond the initial batch, and (importantly) if a regular marine can be upgraded to Primaris.

they did tell us how they made the inital batch. they did NOT grow them in a tube. those tubes we saw in the inital videos where statis tubes.

 Crimson wrote:
I was really disappointed how there was basically nothing about the organisation of the Primaris only chapters in the codex.

Just wait for the Primaris Codex

Mmmmmmmm Ya know there could be primarus wolf scouts since they go backwards.

usmcmidn wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I was really disappointed how there was basically nothing about the organisation of the Primaris only chapters in the codex.

Just wait for the Primaris Codex

Yep its pretty much a given at this point.

Primaris are grown as "all-up" marines. In Dark Imperium it's made clear that they are grown then equipped as full marines.

They are trained heavily, but arent ever deployed as scouts initially. They don't get fielded until they're "fully qualified"

(any more than grey knights are).

Dark imperium does make clear that they suffered more casualties due to a lack of actual battlefield experience, star wars clone trooper fashion.

I don't know if reivers are veterans or trained from day one as infiltration specialists.