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Made in ch
Fresh-Faced New User




I posted this on FB Necrons group but actually it's about general rules. So I want to copy this here for you guys also.

"Gauss Pylon.
"All friendly NECRONS models receive a 5+ invulnerable save whilst they remain within 6" of this model."
I notice one important think. In this edition every "aura" abilities that changing save value and terrains that giving bonuses from cover always suppose to work on UNITS.
Becouse we always shooting to UNIT not to MODEL. No templates and blasts anymore to resolve with models in unit are hit and with one are not. So if I have 10 Warriors unit where 5 models are in range of this ability and 5 are not. I can use roll for invulnerable save in this situation becouse opponent is shooting to whole UNIT of warriors and 5 of them are within 6" from Pylon. But I can allocate wounds to models that are outside of Phase Shift Generator according to Allocate Wound rule. So in general even if in this description is MODELS word it's still working to whole UNIT. The same situation was with Craters and Barricades in rulebook. And in Official Update 1.1 GW change words from MODELS to UNITS to also skip crazy situations when only one Warrior was 1" from Barricade and only he has +1 bonus save but enemy was still only able to shoot to whole UNIT so actually this one warrior save was counting during save rolls even if rest of the unit was standing faraway from Barricade.
Or am I missing something?
Thoughts?

EDIT: I think the same will happen with every protection aura ability that giving nearby models - 1 to hit rolls."
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

No. Because you allocate a wound before rolling the save. If you choose to allocate to one in range, he gets an invul, but will take the damage if he fails.
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






You would have to wait for clarification on your particular rule but the Malanthropes aura in the index was also worded to effect models but was errata/faqed to be units since it's a -1 to hit and to hit is done to units not models.

Perhaps yours is the same, but can't say without FW weighing in.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in ch
Fresh-Faced New User




Chrysis wrote:
No. Because you allocate a wound before rolling the save. If you choose to allocate to one in range, he gets an invul, but will take the damage if he fails.

OK, sounds logic but I have one doubt...
"Allocate Wound: If an attack
SUCCESSFULLY WOUNDS the target,
the player commanding the
target unit allocates the wound to
any model in the unit (the chosen
model does not have to be within
range or visible to the attacking
unit). If a model in the target
unit has already lost any wounds,
the damage must be allocated to
that model."
Is it " successfully wounds" means it's happening after failed save rolls and then we're allocate wounds to any models? So still we're wounding whole UNIT, then throwing save rolls and if an attack successfully wounds the target, then we're allocate wounds to models.
This is how me and everybody with who I played did all the time. If it was wrong I understand. Just want to be sure.

Lance845
Yeah, that's why I posted this one. Becouse I notice they're changing wording everywhere from MODELS to UNITS and necrons Pylon still has MODEL word.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




JohnnyW85 wrote:
Chrysis wrote:
No. Because you allocate a wound before rolling the save. If you choose to allocate to one in range, he gets an invul, but will take the damage if he fails.

OK, sounds logic but I have one doubt...
"Allocate Wound: If an attack
SUCCESSFULLY WOUNDS the target,
the player commanding the
target unit allocates the wound to
any model in the unit (the chosen
model does not have to be within
range or visible to the attacking
unit). If a model in the target
unit has already lost any wounds,
the damage must be allocated to
that model."
Is it " successfully wounds" means it's happening after failed save rolls and then we're allocate wounds to any models? So still we're wounding whole UNIT, then throwing save rolls and if an attack successfully wounds the target, then we're allocate wounds to models.
This is how me and everybody with who I played did all the time. If it was wrong I understand. Just want to be sure.

Lance845
Yeah, that's why I posted this one. Becouse I notice they're changing wording everywhere from MODELS to UNITS and necrons Pylon still has MODEL word.

I mean, you'll note that this is Step 3 of resolving an attack. Step 4 is "Saving Throw". So I'm going to say that you allocate the wound before you take the saving throw.
   
Made in gb
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





West Yorkshire

it would generally make sense to choose a model to take the wound in the first place to know what saves you are eligible to make. Take a group of assault terminators for example, 1 with storm shield and hammer, rest with lightning claws. does it really make sense that I should be allowed to take 3+ invulnerable saves and apply the wounds to a model that doesn't have a storm shield.

5000pts W4/ D0/ L5
5000pts W10/ D2/ L7
 
   
Made in ch
Fresh-Faced New User




Dionysodorus wrote:
JohnnyW85 wrote:
Chrysis wrote:
No. Because you allocate a wound before rolling the save. If you choose to allocate to one in range, he gets an invul, but will take the damage if he fails.

OK, sounds logic but I have one doubt...
"Allocate Wound: If an attack
SUCCESSFULLY WOUNDS the target,
the player commanding the
target unit allocates the wound to
any model in the unit (the chosen
model does not have to be within
range or visible to the attacking
unit). If a model in the target
unit has already lost any wounds,
the damage must be allocated to
that model."
Is it " successfully wounds" means it's happening after failed save rolls and then we're allocate wounds to any models? So still we're wounding whole UNIT, then throwing save rolls and if an attack successfully wounds the target, then we're allocate wounds to models.
This is how me and everybody with who I played did all the time. If it was wrong I understand. Just want to be sure.

Lance845
Yeah, that's why I posted this one. Becouse I notice they're changing wording everywhere from MODELS to UNITS and necrons Pylon still has MODEL word.

I mean, you'll note that this is Step 3 of resolving an attack. Step 4 is "Saving Throw". So I'm going to say that you allocate the wound before you take the saving throw.

Holly... Bro! Thanks! I completely miss this one in rulebook
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Anacortes

WELL THE PYLON (oops) says models. So every model within the 6 inches get the save, the ones outside of 6 do not. Its one way of writing it. So Forge world wrote it that way. So the models within 6 have it, those out do not.

In a dog eat dog be a cat. 
   
Made in us
Irradiated Baal Scavanger





Lungpickle wrote:
WELL THE PYLON (oops) says models. So every model within the 6 inches get the save, the ones outside of 6 do not. Its one way of writing it. So Forge world wrote it that way. So the models within 6 have it, those out do not.


Right so if you had 4 models within the 6 inch range only 4 wounds could be allocated to those 4 bodies with 5+ invulnerable saves.
As for the Storm Shield Thunder Hammer example, I think you'd only get the 3++ no more than twice as you can allocate 2 single damage wounds or 1 multi damage wound, Since the Terminator has 2 wounds and cannot tank More wounds than can be allocated to the said model.
Than again if any of those saves were successful you could continue rolling the said invulnerables one at a time or few at time until these special save models are slain.
Right?!


“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche  
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Blood_Drunk wrote:
Lungpickle wrote:
WELL THE PYLON (oops) says models. So every model within the 6 inches get the save, the ones outside of 6 do not. Its one way of writing it. So Forge world wrote it that way. So the models within 6 have it, those out do not.


Right so if you had 4 models within the 6 inch range only 4 wounds could be allocated to those 4 bodies with 5+ invulnerable saves.
As for the Storm Shield Thunder Hammer example, I think you'd only get the 3++ no more than twice as you can allocate 2 single damage wounds or 1 multi damage wound, Since the Terminator has 2 wounds and cannot tank More wounds than can be allocated to the said model.
Than again if any of those saves were successful you could continue rolling the said invulnerables one at a time or few at time until these special save models are slain.
Right?!

Wounds are allocated one-at-a-time, and a save is rolled before allocating the second wound, so you can absolutely allocate the second wound to the same model. The mechanic you're thinking of was from 5th I think.
   
Made in us
Irradiated Baal Scavanger





Okay, I was just trying to wrap my head around fast rolling these type of unique to the same unit saves. So I would need to slow things down a bit.
Example: 4 Necrons in range of the pylon but as a whole the unit suffers 8 AP -3 wounds and I attempt to Save.
Rolling 4 dice at a time for the Pylon Necrons I decided to allocate wounds to. *Roll Result* 5-2-6-1. So I saved 2 but lost 2 inside the pylons range.
Now I allocate 2 of the remaining wounds back onto the remaining 2 Necrons within the Pylons range. *Roll Result* 5--5 Both Saved and now finally I allocate the last 2 AP-3 wounds onto the ones who just saved and they fail their save rolls.
Which is what you said allocate wounds and save 1 at time (more or less) that way you can't roll 8 invulnerable saves and gain an unfair advantage. Correct?

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche  
   
Made in de
Witch Hunter in the Shadows



Aachen

 Blood_Drunk wrote:
Okay, I was just trying to wrap my head around fast rolling these type of unique to the same unit saves. So I would need to slow things down a bit.
Example: 4 Necrons in range of the pylon but as a whole the unit suffers 8 AP -3 wounds and I attempt to Save.
Rolling 4 dice at a time for the Pylon Necrons I decided to allocate wounds to. *Roll Result* 5-2-6-1. So I saved 2 but lost 2 inside the pylons range.
Now I allocate 2 of the remaining wounds back onto the remaining 2 Necrons within the Pylons range. *Roll Result* 5--5 Both Saved and now finally I allocate the last 2 AP-3 wounds onto the ones who just saved and they fail their save rolls.
Which is what you said allocate wounds and save 1 at time (more or less) that way you can't roll 8 invulnerable saves and gain an unfair advantage. Correct?

Thats exactly how you should do it, yes.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

@BloodDrunk = Yes.
   
 
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