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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

So i've been thinking about it and there are some tactics i never got to try before Fantasy died. You see nobody i know really liked swarms but i think they had a very practical use and were actually pretty good. In the case for Skaven i can put rat swarms in front of my Large Targets like monsters and cannons and it won't block line of sight for the cannons. The reason for doing this is that enemy cannons were the bane of all monsters in Fantasy but if you put some swarms in front of your monsters it could suck up the cannonballs and possibly even prevent one from going through to the monster due to having 5 wounds per guy. In the case of spirit hosts i'm unsure if the cannonball would just be stopped by hitting an ethereal unit it can't damage and if it's magical it still has to go through 4 wounds at least so about 50% chance and if you can maybe you could force a cannonball to have to go through multiple swarms.

Now if the enemy doesn't have cannons you can still use swarms for other things possibly like march blocking the enemy (or at least rat swarms can with leadership 10). Basically just march them to an enemy's flank and prevent em going anywhere.

The last use i can think of is to block off an enemy you're shooting at and forcing them to charge in weird directions possibly while still being able to shoot the enemy you're blocking. Also unlike most skaven they're unbreakable.

-----

Far as other tactics go i'm curious if 5 wide 20-25 model slave units would've been good in the flank to kill enemy chaff. You see with 25 they'd still get their additional 3 ranks for combat resolution and the musician may or may not help as well for tie breaking. Considering chaff combat resolution is low and high initiative matters for it that could be a good thing. Of course the low leadership means without a basic 15 pts naked warlock you are probably going to be unable to re-direct when you flee though i'm unsure if that's a good idea because slaves with non-slave models in them panic non-slave models but a purely slaves unit only panic other slaves.

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Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

IIRC cannon shot go through swarms, the bouncing cannonball doesnt need to kill a swarm base to travel onward. Monsterous infantry stop cannonballs if they dont die though.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Yeah, only monsters and monsterous infantry/cavalry stopped bounding cannonballs.

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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Oh i'm sorry it's been a while since i looked at 8th. I'd maybe be up for a game some time though but i really need to re-read that rulebook.

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






My buddy used to use the old Orc n' Goblin "charge the fanatics" trick on me.

He would hide a unit of 20 goblin archers with 3 fanatics behind a large unit of boys or big uns. When you declared a charge on the unit of orcs, as per the rules your charging unit would have to stop 8" away from the night goblin unit behind the orcs and wait for him to release his fanatics. He would send them forward through his own orc unit taking 3 d6 hits but then they would stop 1" away on the front side of his orc unit just in time for your charge to complete. Then as you completed the charge on the orcs you had to sit on the 3 fanatics and take 6 D6 hits.

This tactic is especially useful if the enemy has an elite army like elves or chaos. Nobody cares about loosing a few 6 point orc boys when you're loosing twice as many heavy cavalry or elite swordmasters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/11 23:27:40


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Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

You can do this with fewer models. A lone goblin hero (normally mounted on a wolf or giant spdier) can be charge bait. The charge stops where he is, for now at least. The fanatics can be aimed on release to miss him and hit the chargers.

Set the goblin just over four and a half inches ahead of the fanatics, this way unless you roll a 4 or less, or a high number and the charger has few ranks the fanatics will remain in the chargers after the charge for double damage.

Then issue a challenge to maximise survival.

Tip: Give the goblins bows, with only a gobbo hero in the way they have a good field of fire.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Eh if you have 15 pts warlocks for skaven you can just skitterleap one of them near a bunch of night goblins if you think they have fanatics. Sure that warlock will die but it's 15 pts and if it gets the enemy to release fanatics into their own lines that's all the better.

There are a couple reasons to take 15 pts warlocks i suppose. Maybe use em in the slaves units to boost leadership. Of course then they could panic other units. I've heard people using them to stop other units as cheap chaff too.

The build i had towards the end of my skaven games was 5 chieftains in a decent sized unit of clanrats going 5 wide. Take them bare and give them halberds so they are only 47 pts each. Then when they hit a combat death frenzy them. They should get to hit first unless they're facing elves but then the elves won't re-roll to hit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/12 04:14:17


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Orcs and Goblins are funny due to having the only multimodel unit in the game with Random Movement, via Squig Hoppers. As written, you can gain a lot of additional movement with them by pivoting the unit against its center (a free action), rolling 3d6 to "clip" an enemy unit, then "closing the door" in order to maximize the number of models in contact.

Alternately, by combining Squig Hoppers with Pump Wagons, you can force the enemy to close the door for you, letting you set up flanks or other traps.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I think that is rather naughty.

The entire night goblin subfaction exists to provide the game with whimsy, they don't take themselves seriously as a faction and have random rules to enforce the playstyle. It is possible to play 'serious' greenskins without them.

Using their whimsical random rules for gamesmanship is not fair really. Everything night goblin is supposed to be unreliable with a win big or lose big feel.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Back in 7th, I remember a particularly infamous maneuver being the "Reform Launch." Since Reforming didn't have a restriction that a model could not move more than its max movement, a fairly underhanded maneuver was to take dense Night Goblin blocj, then Reform it into a straight line facing the enemy, like a giant slinky or a coiled-up serpent striking.

With 8th, a more common trick is to use Hand of Gork (or throaway Wolves) to position your units in between the enemy. Losing some Goblins is worth a Fanatic running through two units of Chaos Warriors.

It's a bit of a shame that Stabbas require at least 2 ranks to use, and are only D3 hits. They do benefit from Choppas and are your only S6 Core option. A more pragmatic option would probably be comboing Sneaky Stabbin with Nasty Skulkers.
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

The one that I saw in 6th was what we referred to as the Fanatic Slingshot. The Goblin player forms their units into single ranks 20 wide, and on their first turn spends a quarter of his movement turning the figures 90 degrees. They they execute a 3" wheel towards their own deployment zone as the rules explicitly state that the rear rank may need to move more than the max move to stay in formation. The rear of the formation then arcs towards the opponent's deployment zone, usually close enough to release Fanatics. The Goblin player then repeats with a few more units. It's especially vicious when aimed at a Knight unit on the flank.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Lone rocks and bushes were the answer. Have small stone on the battlefield a good distance apart, generally about the size of a 20mm base. When someone tries wheeling shenanigans the wide arc is likely to hit one tiny piece of terrain.
Rules lawyer that back without mercy.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

That's hilarious, the one time casual players WANT to rules lawyer lol

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Eh if you have 15 pts warlocks for skaven you can just skitterleap one of them near a bunch of night goblins if you think they have fanatics. Sure that warlock will die but it's 15 pts and if it gets the enemy to release fanatics into their own lines that's all the better.

There are a couple reasons to take 15 pts warlocks i suppose. Maybe use em in the slaves units to boost leadership. Of course then they could panic other units. I've heard people using them to stop other units as cheap chaff too.

The build i had towards the end of my skaven games was 5 chieftains in a decent sized unit of clanrats going 5 wide. Take them bare and give them halberds so they are only 47 pts each. Then when they hit a combat death frenzy them. They should get to hit first unless they're facing elves but then the elves won't re-roll to hit.



Back when I played o&g I loved having multiple small units of night goblins with _no_ fanatics. People were so used for fanatics that unit without one made sure enemy did all sorts of things to avoid them Could make elite cavalry run away delaying their entry to combat by having couple such unit head toward them. Mwahaha.

"Borrowed" this from 5th ed battle reports I read from all-NG army who had this tiny 17 goblin unit(17 rather than 16 to force you to kill 5 rather than 4 to cause panic test). Figured principle is good enough to use

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Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Just Tony wrote:
That's hilarious, the one time casual players WANT to rules lawyer lol


Only to stop schnannigans. Want to move that rock for convenience in fair play, sure, put a counter down where it is. Want to cheat-wheel, sorry bud, that's against the letter of the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:


Back when I played o&g I loved having multiple small units of night goblins with _no_ fanatics. People were so used for fanatics that unit without one made sure enemy did all sorts of things to avoid them Could make elite cavalry run away delaying their entry to combat by having couple such unit head toward them. Mwahaha.

"Borrowed" this from 5th ed battle reports I read from all-NG army who had this tiny 17 goblin unit(17 rather than 16 to force you to kill 5 rather than 4 to cause panic test). Figured principle is good enough to use


If running night goblins always do this. Minimum gobbos costs 60pts, for that you get twenty S3 bow shots, its very nice output. Giving them a command group pushes price to 90pts, I normally play the fluff tax, but whether you do or don't 60-90pts buys an effective unit. Three fanatics cost 75pts. So if I take multiple blocks of night goblins, can I afford this for each one? No. Also do I want it? Again, no, fanatics can be turned against me and it pays not to add them to every night goblin unit, even if you have the points spare.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/26 23:52:45


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
 
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