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Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






At this point it seems like half the threads are literally just sodium overload over Imperial Guard and their codex, and although I agree they are toxic in how broken they are atm, I feel like people are just spewing hate for the sake of making themselves feel better for not winning the lottery after Eldar and Tau got shoved off the pedestal.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




I agree, threads that exist only to complain about other threads don't really belong in General.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






This kind of thing has been going on since before the coming of the Emperor.

Just watch, when the Eldar one drops, we'll either get a bunch of eldar players complaining that their balanced codex is not strong enough, AND we'll get people complaining Eldar are broken yet again this edition.

It's the nature of the internet.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Lots of threads about the latest release is sort of the point of a discussion forum...

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain




Sheep Loveland

Yeah, it will pass. Let people spew their bile, let of steam, reduce their sodium chloride levels etc. And it will soon die down.

However, I feel that the sheer number hate again the IG really makes me question if people really think the codex is broken OP or they are upset that the IG are now strong...

40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






 Trickstick wrote:
Lots of threads about the latest release is sort of the point of a discussion forum...


Then where was the mammoth amount of Admech threads, or Death Guard threads? I did not at all see as much, and as much flame warring either.
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

 vaklor4 wrote:
Then where was the mammoth amount of Admech threads, or Death Guard threads? I did not at all see as much, and as much flame warring either.


IG are probably the biggest selling army if you count different marine chapters separately. If not, then they are definitely have a higher population than admech or deathguard.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






 Trickstick wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
Then where was the mammoth amount of Admech threads, or Death Guard threads? I did not at all see as much, and as much flame warring either.


IG are probably the biggest selling army if you count different marine chapters separately. If not, then they are definitely have a higher population than admech or deathguard.


I dont know if it is just regional or not, but im inclined to disagree for Death Guard. In my area we have people left and right making secondary armies for death guard, some who arent even Chaos normally.
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

This kind of thing has been going on since before the coming of the Emperor.

Just watch, when the Eldar one drops, we'll either get a bunch of eldar players complaining that their balanced codex is not strong enough, AND we'll get people complaining Eldar are broken yet again this edition.

It's the nature of the internet.


QFT. Feel that a thread is going to be another wine n cheese fest or is heading in that direction? Dont click it.
I dont and it works wonders.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Maine



Can't we see all this salt is killing us? Can't we see it's killing mother?
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






DG sort of had their heyday months ago with the announcement of 8th edition and Dark Imperium. The release was also dragged out for so long that most of the hubub was spread thin over the months.

Plus Conscripts had been a hot button topic for quite a while, hence all the vitriol because they weren't "nerfed enough".

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Part of it too is that I think people care a lot about tournament winnings, and IG have featured heavily in those.

I am not sure why that makes people so apoplectic, but it's not really 'new'.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Yeah, it will pass. Let people spew their bile, let of steam, reduce their sodium chloride levels etc. And it will soon die down.

However, I feel that the sheer number hate again the IG really makes me question if people really think the codex is broken OP or they are upset that the IG are now strong...

This is basically what dakka looked like when I first joined dakka in the heyday of Leafblower. Whenever IG is strong it seems to attract a strong backlash thats only truly beaten by the disgust some people have for Eldar in my opinion. I chalk it up to the lore where its always stated in most other armies' codexes that they crush IG all the time. Unlike Eldar, who are at least known for being tricky geniuses always getting their way (in the lore), being beaten by IG must feel like being beaten by the weakest mooks in the game. Its kind of similar to how new space marine players will start out expecting marines to be absolutely nuts on the table only to find out their average infantry suck. "Guardsmen are just a bunch of chumps with cardboard armor and flashlights, why am I losing to this with my 50,000 year old space skeletons/Super advanced robots/legions of hell/etc.?"

This is compounded by the fact that usually when IG gets a buff like this, they go from being one of the worst to one of the best overnight. This means players who were used to a fairly easy time against guard suddenly just get their teeth kicked in, often by what appears to be the exact same army they fought last week. Add in the fact that a well built and highly competitive IG army will blow its opponent off the table in a couple turns, meaning some people dont even get to swing. And if they do, IG players are known for just shrugging as they remove models by the handful before sending in the next wave, like youre trying to throw pebbles to stop the tide coming in. Except even thats tricky to do this edition since IG infantry and vehicles are much more resilient now, at least to alpha strikes.

I cant blame people for disliking IG, especially since many IG players like to gunline and never even move until the final couple of turns. Its an easy habit to fall into and Id be lying if I said I haven't turtled up to deny deepstrikes or when facing a fast assault army like Nids. Having Cadians getting a bonus for standing still on everything isn't going to help combat this notion either. While its an excellent trait strengthwise, its a horrible one from a "fun" perspective as it rewards a very dull playstyle and is boring to fight against. Since many armies are Cadian, it will only reinforce the stereotype that IG players sit still and shoot all game, and even worse will trap new IG players into a mindset of "well I better not move or else I lose my bonus, so Ill just sit here all game."

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




At least my expectations were tempered by 2nd ed, lol. It's amusing for me to see the other power lists cast down to BA level, despite BA remaining truly awful.
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

I think the dislike for IG may also be due to the overwhelming nature of them during a game. Armies that are small can be scary, but it is easier to imagine how to deal with them. "I pop that Landraider/Huge daemon and I can mop the rest up easily" sort of thing. When an IG list has like 100+ infantry and half a dozen tanks then it is really easy to slip into a "wtf can I do against that" mindset.

Another reason is that gunlines rule in low terrain games, and plenty of people use far too little terrain. If you run at a gunline across what is effectively an open field then you are going to get mowed down without really killing anything. That is going to really sour you against them, as it makes the gunline army seem really easy to use and OP.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

One other thing I think that IG do really well is they sort of "break the normal rules."

Wanna charge my superheavy? Sure, but I get to overwatch with a thousand guns and there's little you can do to stop it. (this one upsets people the most against my SHV company)

Wanna leverage morale to wipe out my hordes? Good luck.

Wanna use LOS blocking terrain to hide from my guns? Well, nice try I guess.

Wanna get stuck into melee with me? I hope you brought enough attacks to dent my army.

Wanna target our characters with snipers? Nah, they're regular humans on a 25mm base.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 17:37:23


 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 vaklor4 wrote:
At this point it seems like half the threads are literally just sodium overload over Imperial Guard and their codex, and although I agree they are toxic in how broken they are atm, I feel like people are just spewing hate for the sake of making themselves feel better for not winning the lottery after Eldar and Tau got shoved off the pedestal.
Just like how a movie-star gets talked about much more than me!
Getting press time.
IG/AM won a NOVA, some would look at that as making 8th edition worth while all on it's own.
Now words like "toxic" I am unsure of, depends on whom is receiving a high enough dose to be toxic.
Broken, is dependent on what you are talking about, I am sure if they were to have another NOVA a whole new direction of "broken": would be found: that is what competitive gamers do.

In perspective, we all like our occasional smack-talk but this is our chosen hobby so "hate" is a rather unreasonable description.
I think the actual people who played there have been largely sportsmanlike about it (point me to any quotes otherwise but they all seemed happy about the rumble).
If people are accustomed to some kind of "auto-win" due to their preferred army, well that is a whole different kind of "hurt".

I find the IG/AM talks are looking for other configurations that could be similarly useful in the Codex just as others are trying to look for something in theirs.
A winning strategy is always exciting to dissect.
Finding out why it worked and what else could be useable is the thought.

You can hear folk talk forever on various plays or selections that should have been done for any manner of sports games, why should tabletop be any different?
Watch Moneyball for an entire movie of strategy and getting the most value out of an army... er, "team" for the points... er, money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 17:42:50


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 vaklor4 wrote:
 Trickstick wrote:
Lots of threads about the latest release is sort of the point of a discussion forum...


Then where was the mammoth amount of Admech threads, or Death Guard threads? I did not at all see as much, and as much flame warring either.


Admech has very few players and Death Guard as a faction unto itself is new as far as getting any support. Everyone is looking at the books but very few of us are seeing any games against those armies. I would say the reaction is proportional to the frequency of play.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Its the same with Eldar, they were already a very powerful army then they got there 7th book and people assumed they would be toned down, then they got buffed across the field.

Guard are the same at the moment.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Formosa wrote:
Its the same with Eldar, they were already a very powerful army then they got there 7th book and people assumed they would be toned down, then they got buffed across the field.

Guard are the same at the moment.


And this is exactly why people are concerned. Quite a few people have invested and returned to the game under the promise of a balanced edition.

And let me make this abundantly clear: I am an "imperium" player so i can very easily abuse soup, and in a competitive setting i absolutely do, and I generally do well. But i don't LIKE that. It's not fair to Xenos (i don't play Xenos) and it's not fair to everyone who isn't willing to convert half+ of their list to Guard.

Of course all of the soup nonsense doesn't change the fact that an almost 100% imperial guard / astra militarum list is optimal. If you want to win, and you aren't tied to an army/race/faction, you should be playing AM. Isn't that problematic? If you want your best chance to win tournaments, you should be playing IG. No question.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 20:22:05


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





There should be a thread for whining in.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Dionysodorus wrote:
I agree, threads that exist only to complain about other threads don't really belong in General.
agreed.

   
 
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