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Made in ca
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






So why are they elite?
If I wanted a dedicated melee unit I can take a Vanguard Vet squad with lightning claws for 50 pts more for 5 extra attacks, 6 more inches of movement, -2 so on all attacks and rerolling all wounds.

If I wanted a more shooty elite choice I'd take sternguard, granted they don't have a cheap means of deepstriking.

So in my opinion, i think reivers would shine in fast attack. They have grav chutes and grapple guns. Even if they are an elite rapid deploying unit I think they'd be more at home there.

Frankly I like reivers I just don't think they fit in the elite slot

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/10 16:18:59


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 fraser1191 wrote:
So why are they elite?
If I wanted a dedicated melee unit I can take a Vanguard Vet squad with lightning claws for 50 pts more for 5 extra attacks, 6 more inches of movement, -2 so on all attacks and rerolling all wounds.

If I wanted a more shooty elite choice I'd take sternguard, granted they don't have a cheap means of deepstriking.

So in my opinion, i think reivers would shine in fast attack. They have grav chutes and grapple guns. Even if they are an elite rapid deploying unit I think they'd be more at home there.

Frankly I like reivers I just don't think they fit in the elite slot


I mean, space wolf scouts, mandrakes, striking scorpions, tau stealth suits, lictors, ork kommandos, and a bunch of other "sneaky guys" are all elites, so it's not like reavers are the first stealthy unit to fill an elite slot. You could move them to fast attack, and that would be just fine too. Tau pathfinders are FA, after all. But it's no bizarre thing for them to be elites.

As for how they stack up against units that fill similar niches, well... I guess that's the "downside" to playing the army that GW pumps out a new unit for every other week. Centurions made devastators and terminators redundant last edition. Now reavers are the new sneaky guys. My dark eldar have about half a dozen variations on "fast stabby guys."


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






Wyldhunt wrote:

As for how they stack up against units that fill similar niches, well... I guess that's the "downside" to playing the army that GW pumps out a new unit for every other week. Centurions made devastators and terminators redundant last edition. Now reavers are the new sneaky guys. My dark eldar have about half a dozen variations on "fast stabby guys."


Haha my friend plays DE Everything is fast, pointy and hes the clumsiest guy I know. Bad combo.

But yeah as a whole i doubt the'll change it, I'll have to fit them into my list and try them. Hoping they earned that elite slot lol
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

I think Reivers are elite because GW thought up Inceptors first, which clearly need to be fast attack. Since Primaris needed an elite unit, Reivers were pushed into that slot, even though they don't really fit from a fluff perspective.

This way you can (technically) build a whole detachment with just primaris.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




Vegas

Reivers aren’t fast. They have a deepstrike capability, but without transport, they are still footsloggers.

Autocorrect is for light slapping nun shoes! 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

The real question should be: why are intercessors troops? Primaris of any kind shouldn't be troops but elites or heavy/fast attack choices.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:
The real question should be: why are intercessors troops? Primaris of any kind shouldn't be troops but elites or heavy/fast attack choices.

What about Intercessors screams Elite?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The real question should be: why are intercessors troops? Primaris of any kind shouldn't be troops but elites or heavy/fast attack choices.

What about Intercessors screams Elite?


I gotta agree, they are fresh recruits and they have basic wargear
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

They have super bolters, not basic wargear. Two wounds a piece and they're also quite big. They look 100% elites.

 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






They're basically nob-o-marines.
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:
They have super bolters, not basic wargear. Two wounds a piece and they're also quite big. They look 100% elites.

Or troops in an elite army.
If you take the primaris line as a whole, the basic guys are definitely troops compared to the rest.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

fresus wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
They have super bolters, not basic wargear. Two wounds a piece and they're also quite big. They look 100% elites.

Or troops in an elite army.
If you take the primaris line as a whole, the basic guys are definitely troops compared to the rest.


If they were an independent army with no acces to other imperial stuff, but only primaris units, their tanks and dread I could agree. But currently they're a SM elite choice that is sold as a troop one because otherwise no one would play (and buy) intercessors.

 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




In the fluff, there are primaris-only chapters. A full primaris army makes perfect sense as an independent army, especially given the extensive model line.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Of course. Assault squad without jetpacks.

Maybe one day Primaris will get their own codex. Until then they are regular space marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/12 10:01:39


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






p5freak wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Of course. Assault squad without jetpacks.

Maybe one day Primaris will get their own codex. Until then they are regular space marines.


That's one of very few exceptions. And they still have an option to take a jumppack. I think the only other exception are tau pathfinders. That are only FA because they needed to be FA back in the day to be taken in armies where elite slots are so crowded. Now that you can take as many slots as you want, you can as well put everything in elites - wouldn't matter so much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/12 10:27:34


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Reivers should be troops IMO. lol

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






p5freak wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Of course. Assault squad without jetpacks.

Maybe one day Primaris will get their own codex. Until then they are regular space marines.
Maybe one day Primaris will be the only marines with rules you mean.

No way GW is going to leave old marines in the next iteration of a SM codex. They will be given the Index treatment like all the rest.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Warp Spiders are Fast Attack with 7" (same as regular Craftworld Eldar).
Mucolid Spores and Spore Mines are both 3"

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Wyldhunt wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
So why are they elite?
If I wanted a dedicated melee unit I can take a Vanguard Vet squad with lightning claws for 50 pts more for 5 extra attacks, 6 more inches of movement, -2 so on all attacks and rerolling all wounds.

If I wanted a more shooty elite choice I'd take sternguard, granted they don't have a cheap means of deepstriking.

So in my opinion, i think reivers would shine in fast attack. They have grav chutes and grapple guns. Even if they are an elite rapid deploying unit I think they'd be more at home there.

Frankly I like reivers I just don't think they fit in the elite slot


I mean, space wolf scouts, mandrakes, striking scorpions, tau stealth suits, lictors, ork kommandos, and a bunch of other "sneaky guys" are all elites, so it's not like reavers are the first stealthy unit to fill an elite slot. You could move them to fast attack, and that would be just fine too. Tau pathfinders are FA, after all. But it's no bizarre thing for them to be elites.

As for how they stack up against units that fill similar niches, well... I guess that's the "downside" to playing the army that GW pumps out a new unit for every other week. Centurions made devastators and terminators redundant last edition. Now reavers are the new sneaky guys. My dark eldar have about half a dozen variations on "fast stabby guys."



Arent those sneaky guys also often elite because they are also elite? like space wolve scouts not being new initiates.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine




Oz

 Desubot wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
So why are they elite?
If I wanted a dedicated melee unit I can take a Vanguard Vet squad with lightning claws for 50 pts more for 5 extra attacks, 6 more inches of movement, -2 so on all attacks and rerolling all wounds.

If I wanted a more shooty elite choice I'd take sternguard, granted they don't have a cheap means of deepstriking.

So in my opinion, i think reivers would shine in fast attack. They have grav chutes and grapple guns. Even if they are an elite rapid deploying unit I think they'd be more at home there.

Frankly I like reivers I just don't think they fit in the elite slot


I mean, space wolf scouts, mandrakes, striking scorpions, tau stealth suits, lictors, ork kommandos, and a bunch of other "sneaky guys" are all elites, so it's not like reavers are the first stealthy unit to fill an elite slot. You could move them to fast attack, and that would be just fine too. Tau pathfinders are FA, after all. But it's no bizarre thing for them to be elites.

As for how they stack up against units that fill similar niches, well... I guess that's the "downside" to playing the army that GW pumps out a new unit for every other week. Centurions made devastators and terminators redundant last edition. Now reavers are the new sneaky guys. My dark eldar have about half a dozen variations on "fast stabby guys."



Arent those sneaky guys also often elite because they are also elite? like space wolve scouts not being new initiates.



Elite is a relative term, wolf scouts were pretty much 'standard' marines + loner fluff in scout armour + more weapon options/outflank. I think the problem here is that they're adding new units with dubious justifications for existing, and trying to shoe-horn them in to the FOC without making any changes. Perhaps the FOC needs updating? But otherwise, my impression of them is that they could pretty much fit in troops. One version of them is basically just cheaper intercessors iirc.

 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Happyjew wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Warp Spiders are Fast Attack with 7" (same as regular Craftworld Eldar).
Mucolid Spores and Spore Mines are both 3"


I thought warp spiders get some move shenanigans.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 koooaei wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Warp Spiders are Fast Attack with 7" (same as regular Craftworld Eldar).
Mucolid Spores and Spore Mines are both 3"


I thought warp spiders get some move shenanigans.


They can move an additional 4D6" but cannot Advance or charge in the same turn.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Happyjew wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Is there any fast attack choice with a 6" movement?


Warp Spiders are Fast Attack with 7" (same as regular Craftworld Eldar).
Mucolid Spores and Spore Mines are both 3"


I thought warp spiders get some move shenanigans.


They can move an additional 4D6" but cannot Advance or charge in the same turn.


that's statistically a 21" move.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Blackie wrote:
They have super bolters, not basic wargear. Two wounds a piece and they're also quite big. They look 100% elites.


Not even close to "elite".
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Martel732 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
They have super bolters, not basic wargear. Two wounds a piece and they're also quite big. They look 100% elites.


Not even close to "elite".


They have pretty basic wargear

the only thing that makes them "special" is the grenade and movement options

otherwise they are literally the same as intercessor with assault bolters.

the gear they get makes them look far more like fast attack chainsword bonuses and pistols and movement stuff.

If they had access to special melee weapons then yeah elite might of been fine in comparison to VV

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






 fraser1191 wrote:
So why are they elite?
If I wanted a dedicated melee unit I can take a Vanguard Vet squad with lightning claws for 50 pts more for 5 extra attacks, 6 more inches of movement, -2 so on all attacks and rerolling all wounds.

If I wanted a more shooty elite choice I'd take sternguard, granted they don't have a cheap means of deepstriking.

So in my opinion, i think reivers would shine in fast attack. They have grav chutes and grapple guns. Even if they are an elite rapid deploying unit I think they'd be more at home there.

Frankly I like reivers I just don't think they fit in the elite slot


Because they wear skull helmets and look totally scary.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




Vegas

Maybe they are Elite because of their Deep Strike capability. Maybe GW didn’t want a deep strike unit to have Defenders of Humanity objective secured capability.

Personally, I agree that Reivers should be Troops

Autocorrect is for light slapping nun shoes! 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






And their grapple gun makes them like batman. And batman is very 1337.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Id take them in FA so i can actually run a primarus only brigade.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
 
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