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Hi I am new to warhammer 40k, and got into eldar with the help of some mates. I ended up getting some dire avengers in with the rest of my units. But after looking at the index properly, they seem rather useless. Compared to the standard tactical marines. the tactical marines hit on a 3+ wound on 3+ and i have a 4+ save. the other way around for me to hit them i need a 3+ wound on 4+ and to save they have to roll a 3+. now not to mention that the tactical squads can be bought cheaper, have heavy weapons, and morale bonus. while all avengers get is able to run and then shoot. but given i have less range than most other standard ranged units this acttually doesnt do much to help anything.

Given I am new to this am I missing something?
any help would be apreciated cause right now it just seems like eldar were a bad choice or at least dire avengers were a bad choice

jj5437 wrote:
Hi I am new to warhammer 40k, and got into eldar with the help of some mates. I ended up getting some dire avengers in with the rest of my units. But after looking at the index properly, they seem rather useless. Compared to the standard tactical marines. the tactical marines hit on a 3+ wound on 3+ and i have a 4+ save. the other way around for me to hit them i need a 3+ wound on 4+ and to save they have to roll a 3+. now not to mention that the tactical squads can be bought cheaper, have heavy weapons, and morale bonus. while all avengers get is able to run and then shoot. but given i have less range than most other standard ranged units this acttually doesnt do much to help anything.

Given I am new to this am I missing something?
any help would be apreciated cause right now it just seems like eldar were a bad choice or at least dire avengers were a bad choice

Dire Avengers are currently terrible. They were a bad choice but I can't comment on Eldar overall.

Dire Avengers are one of the biggest head scratchers of the Index. If you look at their Power Level, they seem about reasonably costed (Power Level is about 1PL/20pts roughly) but when it comes to points, their gun is suuuuuper expensive for some reason.

Luckily, if you wait....less than a month, the Eldar are getting a codex, and if there are any balance fixes, Dire Avengers are likely to be in there.

They're literally the next codex coming, I think something like 2 weeks/3 weeks from now?

Yeah i dont know i feel kinda cheated by buying them, but i guess its my fault for not having checked their stats first. still its disheartening to see a cool unit like them go to waste. any suggestions on what units to put in standard troops instead?

I haven't played much of 8th so others can give more up to date advice but I think Guardians in Wave Serpents are the competitive choice.

This can change literally in a month when the codex comes out, so dont worry yet.

Yes, the codex will presumably change a whole lot, and that should be very soon.

As-is, most Eldar units are pretty badly overpriced, especially the Aspects. Dire Avengers in particular are among the worst units in the game. The army pretty much gets by on the strength of Wave Serpents, Hemlock Wraithfighters, Wraithguard, and Dark Reapers. Guardian Defenders are the only halfway-respectable Troops choice.

jj5437 wrote:
Yeah i dont know i feel kinda cheated by buying them, but i guess its my fault for not having checked their stats first. still its disheartening to see a cool unit like them go to waste. any suggestions on what units to put in standard troops instead?

Well, you could either play Power Level games (in which case they're costed just fine) or you could, as others have said, wait less than a month and see how they change in the new codex.

One thing I will tell you for the future though is that rules change. Particularly if you buy the best, optimal thing, odds are you're going to have a very un-optimal thing one edition later as new rules are created to balance them out. Everyone who had a super-competitive eldar army in 7th now has a very, very uncompetitive one now.

My general phiosophy over the years is, with few exceptions, never buy things for rules. There are general principles that usually hold true (i.e., a squad that is specialized to do one thing generally is better than a squad with like, all anti infantry weapons and one heavy weapon, or all short ranged weapons and one long ranged weapon) but when it comes to individual units being better or worse...it all varies. Stuff that was OP 6 months ago is garbage now, and stuff that was terrible is now great.

the_scotsman wrote:
My general phiosophy over the years is, with few exceptions, never buy things for rules. There are general principles that usually hold true (i.e., a squad that is specialized to do one thing generally is better than a squad with like, all anti infantry weapons and one heavy weapon, or all short ranged weapons and one long ranged weapon) but when it comes to individual units being better or worse...it all varies. Stuff that was OP 6 months ago is garbage now, and stuff that was terrible is now great.

Very true. I very rarely buy multiple units, preferring variety. This allows me to field interesting and varied armies. It also allows me to rotate units in and out as things rise and fall with different editions. About the only units I have multiple of are Avengers, Guardians (both Troops so valid), Serpents (our only dedicated transport), Wraithguard and Wraithlords (I play Iyanden so it is fluffy).

Dire Avengers cost something like 4 points per model more than tactical marines, and are worse across the board. I dont think they have a single stat that is better, except for 1" of movement. Their weapon is also worse, or at best equal to a marines, and yet costs 7 points instead of 0. It's really baffling.

Guardians are also awful, but they're better than Avengers. Or rather, they're only ever so slightly worse, but half the price.

It's really odd how Avengers points costs dont even nearly match their power level. I can only assume it's a typo, but GW never corrected it in an FAQ, so it must be intentional somehow. Hopefully it gets changed next week though.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something ridiculous like give them an added 5++ save and bump their points up by one thinking it makes sense.

On the other hand, they could change their range to 24" and down their cost to 11pts and make us scratch our heads the other way. GW has been doing some pretty odd things since this edition release.

Niiru wrote:
Dire Avengers cost something like 4 points per model more than tactical marines, and are worse across the board. I dont think they have a single stat that is better, except for 1" of movement. Their weapon is also worse, or at best equal to a marines, and yet costs 7 points instead of 0. It's really baffling.

Guardians are also awful, but they're better than Avengers. Or rather, they're only ever so slightly worse, but half the price.

It's really odd how Avengers points costs dont even nearly match their power level. I can only assume it's a typo, but GW never corrected it in an FAQ, so it must be intentional somehow. Hopefully it gets changed next week though.

I feel the index were rushed and they didn't bothered to check the balance, Heck even the *weapons cost* built in philosophy of this Edition it's a wrecking mess just looking at the Eldar tanks.

Nightspinner and Fire prism point cost diference for the Very same chassis stats, weapons cost 0 for main gun.

Falcon wich takes another main gun for 0 points, but the cost increases in like 20 points because is capable to transport 6 models.

Finally enter the Wave serpent, 50 points cheaper (even buying 3x shuricanons it's cheaper than other 3 tanks chassis alone) with 12 model transport and nifty ability that reduces wounds and can cause mortal wounds.....


I just hope the codex balances it properly all units, but i'm having a very very bad vibe about just hoping i'm wrong at all.

Lord Perversor wrote:

I just hope the codex balances it properly all units, but i'm having a very very bad vibe about just hoping i'm wrong at all.

I must admit that the Index has a lot of bugs to fix but the IG Codex gives me hope that GW will do something decent for those of us who do not wear power armour.

Of course, hope is just the beginning of disappointment......