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Im not certain as to which forum this question belongs in, but here goes:

I have 30 Kasrkin stormtroopers, with 2 meltas, 1 Plasma gun, 2 flamers, 3 grenade launchers, 5 converted HSVGs and 3 Sgts w/ powerswords.

I've been going back and forth on to go with 3 units of 10 or 6 units (10 in one and 5 units of 5). I'd be making up the Sgts with Cadian bits as well as 2 Commanders(Tempestor Primes).

Going from the Codex, If my army is battle forged, all my troops have Obsec. Grav chute and hold objectives seems like a very viable tactic, just whether going in with 10 wounds per unit or 5.

Constructive thoughts/ideas

Thank you.

sirparthos wrote:
Im not certain as to which forum this question belongs in, but here goes:

I have 30 Kasrkin stormtroopers, with 2 meltas, 1 Plasma gun, 2 flamers, 3 grenade launchers, 5 converted HSVGs and 3 Sgts w/ powerswords.

I've been going back and forth on to go with 3 units of 10 or 6 units (10 in one and 5 units of 5). I'd be making up the Sgts with Cadian bits as well as 2 Commanders(Tempestor Primes).

Going from the Codex, If my army is battle forged, all my troops have Obsec. Grav chute and hold objectives seems like a very viable tactic, just whether going in with 10 wounds per unit or 5.

Constructive thoughts/ideas

Thank you.

I've been playing scions in 8th edition in a mixed guard force. I like them in units of 10 for the troops. I generally prefer HSVGs for these large units. I will typically deploy them in pairs with a tempestor prime to give them orders. I have been skipping vox units, since GW was a dork and said I have to give up a HSLG to get a vox again in the codex instead of using their FAQed option for the index. I don't always grav chute these guys, they also can deploy effectively as a battle line unit, especially if you give them cover and an astropath guide. 16 shots of HSVG (s4, ap-2, rerolling 1s, exploding 6s) is a lot of pain against targets, and if you're in cover you've got a nice 3+ save.

I put my plasma gunners into command squads (which is beardy, so I don't spam them much). These guys generally deploy somewhere to rapid fire overcharged shots at something nasty and then die. Even at 22 points each they're still worth it for their potential damage, but they need appropriate targets. Don't waste them. Don't be afraid to keep them in reserve until turn 2, or even 3. I don't usually send the tempestor prime with them, because I don't expect them to live to fire a second volley anyway.

While this isn't the most brutal way to play scions, its the way I like to play them.

True enough, not the most brutal but I like the ideas.

As a reconfiguration, heres what I think I can put to together:
Squad 1
10 man w/ 3 GL, 1 HSVG 1 SGT wth powersword

Squad 2
10 man w/ 4 HSVG, 1 Sgt with powersword

Squad 3
8 man w/ 2 Flamers,1 Sgt with powersword

Command Sqaud
4 man w/ 2 Meltaguns, 1 Plasmagun

And build 2 Tempestor Primes

Honestly I would seek to scatch-build or buy more Plasma guns.

HSVG can work but consider;
- loose out on exploding 6's
- Wound on 4's rather than 2's
- hit on 4's rather than 3's (when using optimal deployment).
- Double the number of shots at twice the range.
- Less than 1/2 the points.

I would really consider them if the exploding 6's worked on a natural 6 not a 6+ to hit. Otherwise they just loose out too much, I'd also suggest you find the points if you want to field storm troopers as a platform.

Otherwise use cheaper options like guardsmen or SWS.

sirparthos wrote:
True enough, not the most brutal but I like the ideas.

As a reconfiguration, heres what I think I can put to together:
Squad 1
10 man w/ 3 GL, 1 HSVG 1 SGT wth powersword

Squad 2
10 man w/ 4 HSVG, 1 Sgt with powersword

Squad 3
8 man w/ 2 Flamers,1 Sgt with powersword

Command Sqaud
4 man w/ 2 Meltaguns, 1 Plasmagun

And build 2 Tempestor Primes

Nah man, don't take grenade launchers, they're pretty much a trap. I mean if you already made them ok, but really you should clip them off and throw them away. You're mathematically better off with your normal HSLG in most every situation. Flamers are also bad for scions. You're wasting that BS3+, and you can't drop into flamer range. They're also expensive, have no ap, and low s.

Bring HSVGs, plasma, or in a rare case melta. Melta guns aren't bad. But they're worse than plasma guns unless you're under 6" range, which is hard to accomplish as a scion.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razerous wrote:
Honestly I would seek to scatch-build or buy more Plasma guns.

HSVG can work but consider;
- loose out on exploding 6's
- Wound on 4's rather than 2's
- hit on 4's rather than 3's (when using optimal deployment).
- Double the number of shots at twice the range.
- Less than 1/2 the points.

I would really consider them if the exploding 6's worked on a natural 6 not a 6+ to hit. Otherwise they just loose out too much, I'd also suggest you find the points if you want to field storm troopers as a platform.

Otherwise use cheaper options like guardsmen or SWS.

HSVG still get exploding 6s if you deploy them normally, which you should be doing with HSVG in most circumstances. They're not meant to drop in at 9", that's wasting their strengths, they're meant to form a 24" range threat firebase and hold the battleline. HSVGs are great for presenting a credible threat to MEQ at range. A unit with 4 HSVG dug into cover is getting at least 12 hits, wounding on 4s, saving on 5s. It makes MEQ players think twice about coming into bolter range.

I need to turn that conversation vipid and I had into an article or something.

There's pros and cons to 1x10 vs 2x5. I don't know if I'll hit them all, but I'll try to go through them:

Pros:
1x10:
Can weather more damage before losing special weapons
Fewer drops
Requires fewer Primes for orders

2x5:
Opportunity to take two plasma pistols
Requires effort at split fire to wipe them out
Less overall chance to lose models from morale

I think there were a few others also. We went back and forth somewhere in the middle of the AM tactica thread, but I think we figured out almost all of them.

As far as weapons go, top tier is typically considered plasma guns (and plasma pistols if you're into that) or go home. Even now after the point increase. There's a reasonable argument for some meltas. I have a melta command squad. I wouldn't do anything more than maybe a squad or so though, because, as was previously said, getting close enough to be worth it is an issue.

Obviously, you're using kasrkin, which means that what you have is basically what you're going to have, since they're almost impossible to get your hands on nowadays. If you don't feel like converting anything else from what few you have left, the Forgeworld Cadian Hostile Environment guys are about the closest stand-in you can find: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Cadian-Hostile-Environment-Troops-Plasma-Squad

They're out of stock, and the aesthetic isn't perfect, but you sculpt some knee pads onto Cadian legs and they don't look too bad standing by each other.

 daedalus wrote:
Obviously, you're using kasrkin, which means that what you have is basically what you're going to have, since they're almost impossible to get your hands on nowadays. If you don't feel like converting anything else from what few you have left, the Forgeworld Cadian Hostile Environment guys are about the closest stand-in you can find: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Cadian-Hostile-Environment-Troops-Plasma-Squad

They're out of stock, and the aesthetic isn't perfect, but you sculpt some knee pads onto Cadian legs and they don't look too bad standing by each other.

I've been running 4x5 Scions each with plasma/plasma/plasma pistol, plus 2x Tempestors for orders as a Battalion at just under 400 points. They are pretty satisfactory as I can split them to different parts of the battlefield or overload one drop zone. The number of drops is tedious and I rarely go first, but I do get a good look at my opponent's deployment by the time I place my first model after 6 placements.

In regards to the above FW recommendation:

For mine I took the end of the scion hot-shot gun. It's longer than is really passable, but it looks pretty good.

I dig your sarge. Well played on those. I should like to get pictures of mine up at some point to brag, should I ever get around to finishing them.

At the mercy of the thread, I'll post a WIP stormtrooper picture I took a few months ago. I'm further along than this now, but I need to do basing and detail work:



That's basically just made from Cadian bits, but with the head and the coat, it does a really good job of fitting in between the Scion aesthetic, the Kasrkin aesthetic, and the cadian one.

Indeed daedalus, them metal figures are hard to come by, and I was able to convert some into my HSVG. Very fortunate I was able to get some from another guard player in my play group who wasnt using them anymore.

I am going to have to build up some Tempestor Primes, just to give them command rods, and now at the least I only have to make 2 Tempestors with plasma pistols.

I like the kitbash and I may have to borrow the idea with using the helmets from the numerous vox casters I never made