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Made in us
Using Inks and Washes






I don?t understand the love affair and adulation being heaped upon PP for WM -specifically more towards their models. It has taken me ages to get to the point where I was interest enough to start. When I look at the models in the catalogue the sculpting on almost every model seems  to be unfinished, like something is missing, and each faction seems to have its own particular faults. The painting isn?t that good either. To put it bluntly, the catalogue put me off for ages.

<?  

Cygnar ? The models are either strange (e.g Thnderhead, Darius) or very static even when is an action posing e.g trenchers, stormblades ? and  similar to problems of earlier Ral Partha models. Also, the anatomy of several of the models doesn?t quite ?gel? ? something doesn?t quite look right.

 

Khador ? aside from Karchev and most of the warcasters, this is an incredibly ordinary and very boring line lacking detail in almost every model. Khador jacks remind me of the plastic boxing robots form the 70?s.What?s with the Behemoth ? how the heack are those cannons going to work and leave it still standing on its own two feet? Also, would it hurt to highlight some of those models. Russian theme just doesn?t do it for me.

 

Menoth ? Aside from Kreoss, those warcasters are almost moving!!! Those cloaks are alive and the painting is awesome. Barring the sword (what is with the WM swords? How the heck do you stab some-one with that. They look more likely to cause blunt force trauma than penetrate anything) I love the Harbinger. The detailed heavy jacks are great, and I think the use of white is a very bold move but it makes for some very striking paint jobs. Outside of the Exemplar models, the units are very generic and just ordinary and back to having static feel to them.

 

Cryx ? this is the line I went with, and now have about 750 points (which by the way isn?t that much cheaper than GW because it is all metal). Ok, a few weird models (bloat thralls and bile thralls ? yuck), but the imagery and the feel of most of these models is what sold me ? also the paint job on Goreshade and his goth chick. The jacks are creepy and I love the sculpting of the Bane Thralls, and how cannot help but like those pirates ? yar!! I also, think the Scrap Thralls and Mechanithralls are well sculpted and quite imaginative ? love the built in engines, but what is with the golem look-alikes!!

 

It is a line of consistently average quality models that are not good but not bad either, and by and large are not overly detailed. Other companies produce better models, springing to mind immediately is Reaper/ Warlord, Rackham and yes, even GW ? say what you like about GW and their business practices, but I still maintain their line is consistantly high quality (once a certain sculptor has his tools taken away from him). Also, putting together some of these WM models is a pain ? even for someone who is more of a painter and builder than a gamer.  

 

So, having said all that, is the rule set that good that this can be ignored. All I can see myself doing is various Cryx army list using different warcasters. I just cannot bring myself to waste time painting most of these models.

 

Oh, and what is with the Jacks overall. Could they possibly have a smaller lower half ? if they existed how the bloody hell would they balance after two or three steps, let along be standing if they ever had to come to a quick stop ? momentum still exists in the IK world, right?


2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games. 
   
Made in us
Using Inks and Washes






Sorry, but couldn't resist. Please excuse my lack of will power and childishness. Picture of the next Khador Jack?


2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games. 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

Warmachine has a very distinctive style. Some like it, some may not. The 'jacks are very top heavy and seem to be designed to invoke images of hulking football players, wrestlers, etc. Very OTT. But there are some outstanding paintjobs on them. Don't like Khador? Take a look at these:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/20594
http://www.coolminiornot.com/110233
http://www.coolminiornot.com/104793
http://www.coolminiornot.com/110231

The complexity in later sculpts greatly exceeds early ones. Compare a Centurion, for example, to an Ironclad or a Devout to a Revenger. Fortunately, PP actually listens to its customers and has resculpted minis such as the Satyxis raiders.

You may also want to take a peek at the upcoming cav for WM. Worlds ahead of the GW ponies. The Hordes line also boasts some pretty nice models (though the Legion infantry seem very GW Dark Eldarsuck to me....).

-James
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bellevue, WA

You don't like their style. I do. Darius is the model that finally sold me on WM. It's a fat guy in a Walrus suit, what's not to love!?!
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Warmachine has a very distinctive animai-ish look to their jacks. You either like it or you don't. HORDES is nice because the models have a more main-stream look. Take a look at some of those models and I think you'll see the PP sculpter skill.

Also, those new cav models are pretty kick *donkey*too.

 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

It sounds like the figures that upset you the most are the warjacks. Indeed, your chosen faction is the one that is more horde (as opposed to Hordes) oriented and tends not to be 'jack heavy. There's no reason you couldn't go with an infantry heavy list, and either skip jacks entirely (though I think you'll suffer somewhat tactically from that choice) or use alternative models; reaper has an iron golem that would work, and I'm sure that you could find robots or steampunk materials to make your own 'jacks, if that's what you really wanted. As long as the figs make you happy and your opponents don't care, play what you want. I'm probably going to get Foundry or Perry Miniature historicals for some of my cygnar (though maybe not) and I'm trying to figure out how to use beastmen to proxy a hordes trollblood list until I can decide to buy a box or not...

I like the look of Warmachine, but I like steampunk, and I like the OTT quality of the figs. I like GW figs too, but they often feel like the sculptors are trying to fight against the cartoonishness inherent to 28mm and the GW line; PP's sculptors embrace that cartoonishness whole hog, and I appreciate that. Some figs are certainly pretty unattractive (anything that says 'nyss' on it, the WM official Alexia C., the first Haley figure, etc.), but many of them fit my taste, and you really can't account for taste.

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Do people actually type kick*donkey* nowadays? Or do they let the filter handle it?

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bellevue, WA

Also to answer your question - yes the rules are quite tight.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Start in Seattle then hike across the sound.

It sounds like you collected 750 points without even playing a single game. That strkes me as quite the oposite of the PP motto. "Buy a starter set, use the stater rules out of the box, or hey just down load them off the site and proxy with your GW dreadnaughts. It's Okay!" For someone so greatly opposed to the WM line I am suprised you went for it anways.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is maybe WM isn't for you. However I recomend playing a game or two before you decide. I agree the rules are well constructed.

Support your local Kroot. Buy Kroot mercs today! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The Warmachine look isn't for everyone. I myself am not enamoured of every figure they have sculpted (gah! the machine wraith! gak!) and the inverted-triangle, football player look of most of the heavies is nonsensical. Still, as many people point out, it's a FANTASY game. How does that 12-ton 'jack keep from sinking knee-deep into the soil at every step? Magic!

Other companies are not without their faults in scale or realism. Tell me you have never wondered how a human, even a 7' genetically enhanced 'roid-monkey, can fit into a suit of terminator armor. He'd be standing on his tiptoes (because the armor legs are too long for his flesh legs, and the calf of the suit is not wide enough for his foot) and straddling his legs out as though he were riding a really fat horse; his arms would be twisted up and back in order to fit into the suit's arms, (which if you'll notice start up above the level of his ears never mind his shoulders) which means they can't reach all the way to the elbows of the suit. And there are the weapons of three-inch-thick metal, with shafts too thick to be held, even by a figure with the cartoonishly out-of-proportion hands most GW sculpts have. A dreadnaught would fall on its face the first time it tried to lift a leg!

Such things really bother me, when I think about them. So I don't think about them, except to occasionally make fun of them over a beer.  And I still think Terminators look cool.

He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Privateer Press got the rules idea just right. I'm not saying their game system is the best, or the easiest, or the ultimate be-all and end-all; what I'm saying is, they know how to keep everything meshing smoothly. Their basic game mechanics are fairly simple. Every time we've had a question, we have eventually found the answer in the rulebook. The rulebook has a glossary in the back, in alphabetical order, that summarizes each game term or rule, and gives you the page number where it can be found.

Special rules are always the same. A model with stealth cannot be targeted by ranged attacks from more than 5" away. The model's stat card will list stealth, and the rule will be reprinted, verbatim, on the back. And it doesn't matter if the model is Cryx or Menoth, warjack or unit; stealth is stealth.  None of this 'almost-identical rule with a totally cool name' for each race or army. 

Special abilities tell you what the model can do, and also what sorts of things are not affected. It is obvious, they have playtested, and argued, and sat up over beer & pizza playing Theory-Machine until the wrinkles are well and truly ironed out. Nowhere are you told to settle a dispute by 'd6 it'.

The more I play this game, the greater my respect for Privateer Press grows. They have put out core rules and two expansions, and a whole new game that is backwards-compatible with Warmachine, and there are few if any rules conflicts.  Games Workshop needs to take a hard look at what PP is doing, and compare it to what GW is doing, and learn. (First off, warning bells should sound when a company needs to dedicate employees to the function of answering rules questions about its game system. Secondly, when said employees can't answer a question the same way twice, heads need to roll. Stuff the Roolzboyz.)


He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I love the models - the factions are so different that even if you don't care for the style of one one of the others is bound to appeal to you.
It is a line of consistently average quality models
I find them to be refreshingly original and well sculpted. They may not have a skull or scroll attached to every flat surface, but I think most GW players were getting tired of that.

The game background is great as well. It's nice to have a rpg version for those of us who like the fluff aspect (and rpg players of course).
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

The more I play this game, the greater my respect for Privateer Press grows. They have put out core rules and two expansions, and a whole new game that is backwards-compatible with Warmachine, and there are few if any rules conflicts. Games Workshop needs to take a hard look at what PP is doing, and compare it to what GW is doing, and learn.


I feel exactly the same. The rules are so solid it is very scary. Games are refreshingly argument free. I've played in several leagues now, and we've needed no house rules or any kinds of clarifications.

Another brilliant PP strategy: Instead of releasing suplements on a per army basis, PP releases a game supplement for ALL factions at once. This is a brilliant tactic, as ALL players will want to buy the new book, and there will be new releases for every faction at about the same time. A very clever business model, and keeps fans of all factions excited.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





That method of releases is also nice in that they advance the story with each expansion. It gives the characters a lot more depth than they would have otherwise. Just to use the poster boys as examples, Stryker has grown to be a much more interesting character than Marneus Calgar could hope to be. It also allows them to release counters to units which seem to be overused. Trenchers giving Khador problems? Out comes the Spriggan.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




South of Philadelphia

To me PP has just enough detail to make the model believable and fun to paint.  plus the vaiety of what i have to paint keeps me going (when i actually get the time TO paint).  Most of the GW stuff i used to pain was either deviod of most datail (I'm talking to you marines. ) or are way too busy. 

Granted many of thier early sculpts were a bit lacking but they are more then making up for it with their newer lines.  Esspecially with getting names like Werner Klock to sculpt for them.


See that? That thing just stuffed two other things into that bigger thing! What in Morrow's name is going on?"
Whats your pirate name?
http://www.fidius.org/quiz/pirate/
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

The new Cav models coming out look Very nice indeed.

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







It's getting pricey, though.

But what I really find expensive is the "gotta have it all" mentality
that Warmachine fosters. Warhammer does this because, well, your
army HAS no updates for years and years and years, so you start
buying other armies. With each Warmachine expansion they're
releasing stuff that you fight against and want to play with.

Totally, totally evil.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Posted By malfred 08/04/2006 11:45 AM
It's getting pricey, though.

But what I really find expensive is the "gotta have it all" mentality
that Warmachine fosters. Warhammer does this because, well, your
army HAS no updates for years and years and years, so you start
buying other armies. With each Warmachine expansion they're
releasing stuff that you fight against and want to play with.

Totally, totally evil.

It is important to point out though that the Prime models are still as good, maybe even superiour, to the models from the expansions.  Sorcha, Eiryss, and Destroyers - a list that has been winning and winning since '03.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







And supposedly there's a prime Denny army running around PP's
office league spanking everybody.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Warmachine and Hordes has replaced my crack addiction....which was 40K.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







GW will be getting dollars from me real soon. I've already been paying them
a little here and a little there for my Wood Elves. But it looks like I'll be buying
Eldar for the next year or so.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I feel exactly the same. The rules are so solid it is very scary. Games are refreshingly argument free. I've played in several leagues now, and we've needed no house rules or any kinds of clarifications.

Another brilliant PP strategy: Instead of releasing suplements on a per army basis, PP releases a game supplement for ALL factions at once. This is a brilliant tactic, as ALL players will want to buy the new book, and there will be new releases for every faction at about the same time. A very clever business model, and keeps fans of all factions excited.


Not only are the rules are tight, and not only are the releases keeping everyone in the game, but they run with a trick from L5R, which is they have a story that EVOLVES. Not static story for 20 years. I mean, there's a reason behind say, Epic Magnus and what he's doing. There is a reason there is an Epic Caine, and WHY there are new mercenary contracts....

Keeps you thinking what if X happens....or wondering what happens next.

Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...  
   
 
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