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Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/16/the-grand-tournament-heat-1-the-roundup/


The winner had 6 tactical squads of ultramarines. 5 man with a lasscanon and a cheap sargeant (bolt pistol and chainsword)
Lord of War: Roboute Guilliman

HQ: Tigurius

HQ: Space Marine Captain with Teeth of Terra (relic)

Troops: 6 Tactical Squads (lascannon in each squad. Sergeants carrying chainsword and bolt pistol)

Dedicated Transport: 6 Razorbacks (Twin assault cannons)

Flyer: Stormraven Gunship (lascannon, multi-meltas, hurricane bolters)


And the TOP-15
1-Space Marines
2-Space Marines
3-Chaos Daemons
4-Chaos
5-Imperium
6-Astra Militarum
7-Genestealer Cults
8-Chaos
9-Craftworlds
10-Ynnari
11-Astra Militarum
12-Astra Militarum
13-Imperium
14-Astra Militarum
15-Adeptus Ministorum


If you have some lists feel free to post them there!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/16 17:17:24


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in se
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




Surprising to see that many tac squads, would love to see other lists and battle reports/video links.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

sossen wrote:
Surprising to see that many tac squads, would love to see other lists and battle reports/video links.


And here after reading Dakka Dakka I assumed Tact squads were utter garbage beyond even casual contempt by fellow dakkanauts

17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
sossen wrote:
Surprising to see that many tac squads, would love to see other lists and battle reports/video links.


And here after reading Dakka Dakka I assumed Tact squads were utter garbage beyond even casual contempt by fellow dakkanauts


Man but those Tac haters know best, just look at all their trophies

And I'll even give them that Tac, without OP buff-sticks like Guilliman are underwhelming, but so many units are like that in 40k... this is the TCG era, where you can't see a unit alone, you need to see the sinergies between them. Just like Magic, you need to form "combos", not just take units that are good by themselves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 17:35:33


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Yay, adeptus ministorum actually places in the top fifteen.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Roboute Guilliman lists have been strong since 8th dropped. This isn't news.

You don't see Grey Knights on that list (and they have a codex), you don't see Blood Angels on that list, you don't see Space Wolves on that list, you don't see anything besides Ultramarines on that list, solely because of Guilliman.

Everyone screams Guilliman is overpowered, but without him, marines are garbage. Just look at the other factions for proof.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 17:41:48


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman lists have been strong since 8th dropped. This isn't news.

You don't see Grey Knights on that list (and they have a codex), you don't see Blood Angels on that list, you don't see Space Wolves on that list, you don't see anything besides Ultramarines on that list, solely because of Guilliman.

Everyone screams Guilliman is overpowered, but without him, marines are garbage. Just look at the other factions for proof.


I don't disagree that Guilliman is really powerful, but I thought the 2nd place SM was Raven Guard? ...and Blood Angels and Space Wolves are terrible examples because they still use the Index, while Grey Knights are kind of on a branch of their own. I don't believe you are being truly objective here.


Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Yeah, it's more of the "wah wah wah marines suck, ignore all the wins we get they don't count wah" nonsense taht's been going on as long as the hobby's existed. I remember people arguing Jaws of the World Wolf wasn't overpowered when it first came out, kek...

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 generalchaos34 wrote:
sossen wrote:
Surprising to see that many tac squads, would love to see other lists and battle reports/video links.


And here after reading Dakka Dakka I assumed Tact squads were utter garbage beyond even casual contempt by fellow dakkanauts


Yeah never read the General Discussion forums for tactical advice. A cursory glance at most of the complains (especially ones with hyperboles) will show that they probably never even read the rules, much less actually faced/used the thing on the board.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Gunzhard wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman lists have been strong since 8th dropped. This isn't news.

You don't see Grey Knights on that list (and they have a codex), you don't see Blood Angels on that list, you don't see Space Wolves on that list, you don't see anything besides Ultramarines on that list, solely because of Guilliman.

Everyone screams Guilliman is overpowered, but without him, marines are garbage. Just look at the other factions for proof.


I don't disagree that Guilliman is really powerful, but I thought the 2nd place SM was Raven Guard? ...and Blood Angels and Space Wolves are terrible examples because they still use the Index, while Grey Knights are kind of on a branch of their own. I don't believe you are being truly objective here.



Objective about what?

Things I stated are objective facts:

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and other successor chapters are very underrepresented in all leaderboards, for this tournament and in a much larger, and more meaningful sample. That's not bias, that's a fact.

Guilliman is powerful. This is a pretty clear and objective fact.

And stop this "they don't have a codex yet" argument. It's invalid. Until an army gets a codex, you have to evaluate it on its current merits.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Galas wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/16/the-grand-tournament-heat-1-the-roundup/


The winner had 6 tactical squads of ultramarines. 5 man with a lasscanon and a cheap sargeant (bolt pistol and chainsword)
Lord of War: Roboute Guilliman

HQ: Tigurius

HQ: Space Marine Captain with Teeth of Terra (relic)

Troops: 6 Tactical Squads (lascannon in each squad. Sergeants carrying chainsword and bolt pistol)

Dedicated Transport: 6 Razorbacks (Twin assault cannons)

Flyer: Stormraven Gunship (lascannon, multi-meltas, hurricane bolters)



Literally (I mean literally as in literal definition, not this stupid figuratively crap) told my SM friends to do this(besides Tigurius but literally everything else), if i didnt find sm boring to play compare to Aeldari

Spelling.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/16 18:28:53


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Well glad to see the winning list was less boring than a 3 Baneblade list.

Oops.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Tactical squads OP, should boycott playing Marines until GW fix this mess. Game Ruined Forever again.

(Joking of course).

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

 Marmatag wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman lists have been strong since 8th dropped. This isn't news.

You don't see Grey Knights on that list (and they have a codex), you don't see Blood Angels on that list, you don't see Space Wolves on that list, you don't see anything besides Ultramarines on that list, solely because of Guilliman.

Everyone screams Guilliman is overpowered, but without him, marines are garbage. Just look at the other factions for proof.


I don't disagree that Guilliman is really powerful, but I thought the 2nd place SM was Raven Guard? ...and Blood Angels and Space Wolves are terrible examples because they still use the Index, while Grey Knights are kind of on a branch of their own. I don't believe you are being truly objective here.



Objective about what?

Things I stated are objective facts:

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and other successor chapters are very underrepresented in all leaderboards, for this tournament and in a much larger, and more meaningful sample. That's not bias, that's a fact.

Guilliman is powerful. This is a pretty clear and objective fact.

And stop this "they don't have a codex yet" argument. It's invalid. Until an army gets a codex, you have to evaluate it on its current merits.


Invalid? ...that's like your opinion man, and frankly, it's wrong. The Index in 8th were a "stop-gap", everyone should know that by now. It's really kind of silly to ignore this FACT. We are getting Codex at an unprecedented rate but not everything is updated yet (should also be obvious).

Your argument is that SM are gak without Guilliman, but you list the only two SM chapters without a codex and then GK... nobody argued that those particular armies aren't represented in the "leaderboards", but that still has nothing to do with the point you're trying to make.

You need to do a much better job getting your flimsy point across, trying to bully folks into ignoring common sense regarding the Index is not working.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire




Craftworlds got 9th, ahead of Ynnari...? What black magic is this?
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Kinda makes me wonder if a list similar to that might work decently enough for BA.

Spoiler:
HQ: 299 points
Mephiston
Captain w/TH, MCBG
Chaplain

Elites: 135 points
5-man Death Company w/TH, 4x boltguns, 2xPAxe, 2xChainswords

Troops: 540 points
6 5-Brother Tactical Squads w/Lascannon (personally, I'd favor plasmaguns or flamers, but the list DOES need more heavy anti-tank)

Flyer: 326 points
Stormraven w/LC, Twin MMs, Twin Hurricanes

Transport: 700 points
7 Razorbacks w/Twin AC


Could work; wouldn't be as top tier as this list because of the lack of stratagems and chapter tactics of course, but I bet it'd surprise people. To make up for lack of robooty, it has an additional razorback, with a chaplain and death company riding in it smashing face, and mephiston can make any nearby BA squad hit harder or be more durable, so he'd certainly pull his weight (especially with his brutal 4 s10 ap-3 1d3 damage attacks).

Though going through this exercise makes me think "BA really need their book." more than anything. BA are codex-compliant with some variations-- certainly far more so than the space wolves or grey knights. They should be able to do a list like this (though not necessarily exactly like this) and have it stand up competitively.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 19:05:01


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






tactical squads are pretty good for their points costs as well as having 6 lascannons and 6 razorbacks they can be pretty powerful. Telling that Orks aren't on that list though!
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain




Sheep Loveland

Would you look at all that pure Astra Militarum! Anyone would think with their new OP PLZ NERF! Codex, that they would be in the positions 1 to 5.

Guess Imperium soup really was the OP force, rather than a pure Astra Militarum army. But hey, that's just my opinion.

40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





China

The real crime is that Ad Mech sucks
   
Made in kr
Stalwart Space Marine






I am surprised to see a list with plenty of tactical squads taking the first place.
More so because I always thought Intercessor Squads were more solid troop choices, compared to tactical squads.

That said, the post from Warhammer Community mentioned primaris marines doing well on the scene.
I wonder if the Space Marines list on the second place featured considerable number of primaris marines.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Marmatag wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman lists have been strong since 8th dropped. This isn't news.

You don't see Grey Knights on that list (and they have a codex), you don't see Blood Angels on that list, you don't see Space Wolves on that list, you don't see anything besides Ultramarines on that list, solely because of Guilliman.

Everyone screams Guilliman is overpowered, but without him, marines are garbage. Just look at the other factions for proof.


I don't disagree that Guilliman is really powerful, but I thought the 2nd place SM was Raven Guard? ...and Blood Angels and Space Wolves are terrible examples because they still use the Index, while Grey Knights are kind of on a branch of their own. I don't believe you are being truly objective here.



Objective about what?

Things I stated are objective facts:

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and other successor chapters are very underrepresented in all leaderboards, for this tournament and in a much larger, and more meaningful sample. That's not bias, that's a fact.

Guilliman is powerful. This is a pretty clear and objective fact.

And stop this "they don't have a codex yet" argument. It's invalid. Until an army gets a codex, you have to evaluate it on its current merits.


The "marines are just garbage" bit = not an objective fact.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

> "Marines are just garbage"
> They score 1st and second place.
> They probably also have spots in the fifth and thirteenth place lists.

The cognitive dissonance is real.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
I am surprised to see a list with plenty of tactical squads taking the first place.
More so because I always thought Intercessor Squads were more solid troop choices, compared to tactical squads.



Damage output from Tacticals tends to be better because you can arm them for the task. Intercessors are tougher vs small arms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 19:37:37


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

But I keep hearing marine players complaining that tactical marines are the worst unit in the game!

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Right. For example, flamer/combiflamer tacticals out-damage intercessors at rapid fire range against guardsmen or orks, while plasma/combiplasma tacticals outdamage intercessors against power armor, and so on.

Intercessors' big benefit is their survivability. But if you're playing a mechanized list anyway or making good use of cover, tacticals are still pretty durable.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




My poor Grey Knights. How long must we serve penance for Matt Ward?
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Blacksails wrote:
But I keep hearing marine players complaining that tactical marines are the worst unit in the game!


In their defense, I think Tacticals are easy to mis-use.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm not very surprised at the top list. Tactical squads aren't very good by themselves. Guilliman is pretty overpowered, and his main impact on your army is to hugely buff the offensive capabilities of your units. Tactical squads start off very durable (if they can sit in cover) but not at all shooty, and Guilliman makes them reasonably shooty. They're also a fairly cheap way to unlock CP and slots for Razorbacks. With Guilliman or Salamanders I think they're competitive with Devastator squads since the Dev squads are much softer targets. I think the idea here is that there's enough long-range firepower on sufficiently durable platforms that the enemy generally has to come to you, and then you have assault cannons. Also, basically nobody thinks that tactical Marines should cost less than 11 points each, and if they did cost 11 points this list would only have had 60 more points to play with. It's really very hard to draw conclusions about unit balance from results like this since even a significant under- or over-costing is rarely going to amount to more than a few percent of the army's point total.

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
I am surprised to see a list with plenty of tactical squads taking the first place.
More so because I always thought Intercessor Squads were more solid troop choices, compared to tactical squads.

That said, the post from Warhammer Community mentioned primaris marines doing well on the scene.
I wonder if the Space Marines list on the second place featured considerable number of primaris marines.

It's the lascannons. Primaris Marines don't present the same kind of long-range threat that you need to force people to get closer to your assault cannons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 19:43:15


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Unit1126PLL wrote:Well glad to see the winning list was less boring than a 3 Baneblade list.

Oops.


Actually; it is less boring than a 3 Baneblade list - let me be clear, I'm not talking about which list is more powerful here.

With a 3 Baneblade list, if I didn't bring enough anti-tank firepower, I flat out lose. With a TacSquad/Razorback list, at least all my guns have some sort of target, and I can hope that I get lucky enough to wipe out enough TacSquads before they wipe out my vehicles - at which point, perhaps my tanks can fight the remaining Razorbacks (Gulliman is still impossible to deal with however).

Again, its not about power; it's about whether or not my guns have applicable targets, and I believe I can have a chance based on my TAC list. [That said, the Gulliman list might as well be an auto-lose just like triple baneblades; but at least I can pretend to play it out - with the baneblades; I can't shoot them, I can't charge them, I can't lock them in CC - all I can do is hope I destroy them before they destroy me. There's no tactics or fun there.]

Melissia wrote:Kinda makes me wonder if a list similar to that might work decently enough for BA.

Spoiler:
HQ: 299 points
Mephiston
Captain w/TH, MCBG
Chaplain

Elites: 135 points
5-man Death Company w/TH, 4x boltguns, 2xPAxe, 2xChainswords

Troops: 540 points
6 5-Brother Tactical Squads w/Lascannon (personally, I'd favor plasmaguns or flamers, but the list DOES need more heavy anti-tank)

Flyer: 326 points
Stormraven w/LC, Twin MMs, Twin Hurricanes

Transport: 700 points
7 Razorbacks w/Twin AC


Could work; wouldn't be as top tier as this list because of the lack of stratagems and chapter tactics of course, but I bet it'd surprise people. To make up for lack of robooty, it has an additional razorback, with a chaplain and death company riding in it smashing face, and mephiston can make any nearby BA squad hit harder or be more durable, so he'd certainly pull his weight (especially with his brutal 4 s10 ap-3 1d3 damage attacks).

Though going through this exercise makes me think "BA really need their book." more than anything. BA are codex-compliant with some variations-- certainly far more so than the space wolves or grey knights. They should be able to do a list like this (though not necessarily exactly like this) and have it stand up competitively.


It looks similar; but Gulliman (as always) is the thing that makes the other list actually work - his aura is a Salamanders trait on steroids. Every Lascannon WILL hit, and every hit WILL wound (for the most part). He's got 6 reliable lascannons in the marines alone, versus the 6/4/2 that you've got (6 shots, 4 hits, 2 wounds; ish).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lolman1c wrote:
tactical squads are pretty good for their points costs as well as having 6 lascannons and 6 razorbacks they can be pretty powerful. Telling that Orks aren't on that list though!


Doesn't matter - WAAAGH!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/16 19:45:36


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

fe40k wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:Well glad to see the winning list was less boring than a 3 Baneblade list.

Oops.


Actually; it is less boring than a 3 Baneblade list - let me be clear, I'm not talking about which list is more powerful here.

With a 3 Baneblade list, if I didn't bring enough anti-tank firepower, I flat out lose. With a TacSquad/Razorback list, at least all my guns have some sort of target, and I can hope that I get lucky enough to wipe out enough TacSquads before they wipe out my vehicles - at which point, perhaps my tanks can fight the remaining Razorbacks (Gulliman is still impossible to deal with however).

Again, its not about power; it's about whether or not my guns have applicable targets, and I believe I can have a chance based on my TAC list. [That said, the Gulliman list might as well be an auto-lose just like triple baneblades; but at least I can pretend to play it out - with the baneblades; I can't shoot them, I can't charge them, I can't lock them in CC - all I can do is hope I destroy them before they destroy me. There's no tactics or fun there.


Damn, I almost fell asleep reading the army list and it's less boring than Baneblades.

Oh well.
   
 
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