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Say I have a unit of Khorne Bezerkers and there is 3 units, two in the front and one behind the other two. I charge with my Bezerkers, ONLY targeting one of the front units, and keeping at least some models relatively close to the other front line enemy unit.

I kill the entire first unit. I then move 3 inches as consolidation, so I wrap my guys into the second frontline unit. Blood for the blood god triggers, I pile in to get even closer. Fight phase, kill the second unit. Consolidate towards the third unit that was previously hiding in the back, and then I activate the Fury of Khorne Stratagem to fight a third time.

My question is, with that example: can I fight units that I did not target with a charge? Obviously it does not come up often, but the Bezerkers are not just making multiple attacks, they are very clearly resolving their first fight, and fighting a second and third time overall. So can I just keep wrapping around enemies between fights?

 vaklor4 wrote:
can I fight units that I did not target with a charge?

No. Rules are clear on this point.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
can I fight units that I did not target with a charge?

No. Rules are clear on this point.

So if I declare charges against all 3, that's legal?

 vaklor4 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
can I fight units that I did not target with a charge?

No. Rules are clear on this point.

So if I declare charges against all 3, that's legal?

Yes, but you'll suffer overwatch from all 3

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
can I fight units that I did not target with a charge?

No. Rules are clear on this point.

So if I declare charges against all 3, that's legal?

Yes, but you'll suffer overwatch from all 3

Suffer? The only thing I will be suffering is the salt baths of my enemies!

Oh and don't forget that all units have to be within 12" to declare a charge.

Also since they are charging, even if you can't fight the enemy you're locked with or there are no enemies left to fight (happens when you're swinging Berzerkers around) then they still get to pile-in and consolidate a second or third time because chargers always get to activate even if they're not near an enemy.

Though remember that pile-in and consolidate can only happen towards the closest model. So wrapping is actually not as easy as it sounds in some situations and you cannot dig your way through an entrenched formation to get to the character sitting in the back unless you murdered everything close by.

Sometimes I like to screw with my enemy's plans by flying a flyer next to his troops while they're locked in combat. This prevents them from piling in forward or consolidating into more of my units because the closest model to them is the flyer, even though it's not part of the combat and even though they aren't legally allowed to engage it because of Airborne. This can have hilarious effects where units are stuck staring at a plane and proving unable to do anything of value that turn.

 Arkaine wrote:
Also since they are charging, even if you can't fight the enemy you're locked with or there are no enemies left to fight (happens when you're swinging Berzerkers around) then they still get to pile-in and consolidate a second or third time because chargers always get to activate even if they're not near an enemy.

Though remember that pile-in and consolidate can only happen towards the closest model. So wrapping is actually not as easy as it sounds in some situations and you cannot dig your way through an entrenched formation to get to the character sitting in the back unless you murdered everything close by.

Sometimes I like to screw with my enemy's plans by flying a flyer next to his troops while they're locked in combat. This prevents them from piling in forward or consolidating into more of my units because the closest model to them is the flyer, even though it's not part of the combat and even though they aren't legally allowed to engage it because of Airborne. This can have hilarious effects where units are stuck staring at a plane and proving unable to do anything of value that turn.

How does consolidate move occur after the target of charge gets wiped out? Doesn't the rule stipulate that consolidation is towards the nearest enemy model of the target charge?

 skchsan wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
Also since they are charging, even if you can't fight the enemy you're locked with or there are no enemies left to fight (happens when you're swinging Berzerkers around) then they still get to pile-in and consolidate a second or third time because chargers always get to activate even if they're not near an enemy.

Though remember that pile-in and consolidate can only happen towards the closest model. So wrapping is actually not as easy as it sounds in some situations and you cannot dig your way through an entrenched formation to get to the character sitting in the back unless you murdered everything close by.

Sometimes I like to screw with my enemy's plans by flying a flyer next to his troops while they're locked in combat. This prevents them from piling in forward or consolidating into more of my units because the closest model to them is the flyer, even though it's not part of the combat and even though they aren't legally allowed to engage it because of Airborne. This can have hilarious effects where units are stuck staring at a plane and proving unable to do anything of value that turn.

How does consolidate move occur after the target of charge gets wiped out? Doesn't the rule stipulate that consolidation is towards the nearest enemy model of the target charge?

No, it just has to be towards the nearest enemy model. It's in the rulebook.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
Also since they are charging, even if you can't fight the enemy you're locked with or there are no enemies left to fight (happens when you're swinging Berzerkers around) then they still get to pile-in and consolidate a second or third time because chargers always get to activate even if they're not near an enemy.

Though remember that pile-in and consolidate can only happen towards the closest model. So wrapping is actually not as easy as it sounds in some situations and you cannot dig your way through an entrenched formation to get to the character sitting in the back unless you murdered everything close by.

Sometimes I like to screw with my enemy's plans by flying a flyer next to his troops while they're locked in combat. This prevents them from piling in forward or consolidating into more of my units because the closest model to them is the flyer, even though it's not part of the combat and even though they aren't legally allowed to engage it because of Airborne. This can have hilarious effects where units are stuck staring at a plane and proving unable to do anything of value that turn.

How does consolidate move occur after the target of charge gets wiped out? Doesn't the rule stipulate that consolidation is towards the nearest enemy model of the target charge?

No, it just has to be towards the nearest enemy model. It's in the rulebook.

Slightly off topic, but I think I may have played assault all wrong - does this mean that as long as 1 model in the unit made the charge distance, all of the models effectively have 2d6+3 range to get into fight?

AND

You can consolidate within 1" of non-charge target?

 skchsan wrote:

Slightly off topic, but I think I may have played assault all wrong - does this mean that as long as 1 model in the unit made the charge distance, all of the models effectively have 2d6+3 range to get into fight?

AND

You can consolidate within 1" of non-charge target?

1. Yes, only one model needs to "get there" with the charge move. The rest can pile in to get in range.

2. Yes.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

Slightly off topic, but I think I may have played assault all wrong - does this mean that as long as 1 model in the unit made the charge distance, all of the models effectively have 2d6+3 range to get into fight?

AND

You can consolidate within 1" of non-charge target?

1. Yes, only one model needs to "get there" with the charge move. The rest can pile in to get in range.

2. Yes.

Wew. We played out the "choose unit to fight with" phase with units that made the charge to within 1" of enemy model, resolved attacks from both sides, then piled in so that rest of the models that didn't make it to 1" get to fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now, taking the OP's original question, say consolidating puts the charger (the current turn's player) at a more disadvantageous position by coming into 1" range of units he/she did not charge.

Can the charger elect not to consolidate?

Yes, consolidation is always optional. Also, you don't need to move within 1" or even move directly towards the model you are consolidating towards. You just have to end the move closer than before. This means you can consolidate three inches to the LEFT of the target or PAST the target as long as the distance you end up away from the target model is less than the distance you started at.

 Arkaine wrote:
Yes, consolidation is always optional. Also, you don't need to move within 1" or even move directly towards the model you are consolidating towards. You just have to end the move closer than before. This means you can consolidate three inches to the LEFT of the target or PAST the target as long as the distance you end up away from the target model is less than the distance you started at.

True and sneaky, or full of tactics.

You have to end your move closer to the closest model, but there is no stipulation that all or most of your consolidate has to be towards the closest model. If the closest model is A but you want to engage model B, you can move so that you are .1 inches closer to A but 2.9 closer to B for example.

Also to the OP you can't declare charges at units more than 12", so if that other unit behind the first unit is further than 12" it cannot also be a target of a charge.

Back to the original question, of he only declared on the first unit, moves on to kill that, consolidates towards the next, does something to trigger a new fight sequence (I am unfamiliar with the khorne rules) - he then gets to pile in towards the next unit, but not fight it since he didn't declare, and then consolidate at end of sequence?

blaktoof wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
You have to end your move closer to the closest model, but there is no stipulation that all or most of your consolidate has to be towards the closest model. If the closest model is A but you want to engage model B, you can move so that you are .1 inches closer to A but 2.9 closer to B for example.

How so?

6. Consolidate = You may move each model in the unit up to 3" – this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

The consolidation isn't really something you get too much say in. It is model by model. Each model only has 1 closest enemy model so only 1 direction it can move. You can determine distance, but not direction. (I know there could be 2 models 2" away... Let's not get out the micrometer.)

Because nothing requires you to use all of the movement towards the closest model, nor does anything require you to move the shortest distance possible towards the closest model, and lastly nothing in the rule prevents you from also moving towards other models, or requires that no other model is closer at the end of a pile in or consolidate than the model which was closest before you moved.

The result is moving so that your consolidated mod is .1 inches closer to the closest model before the consolidate, and 2.9 closer to another model is a valid result because you have fulfilled the raw of ending closer to the nearest model.

Eg if nearest model A is 1 inch east, and model B is 2" north, you could consolidate so A is .75 inches away and B is .75 inches away, as you ended your move closer to A you are within the rules as written but have put B in a state where it is within 1" of an enemy model.

All that being said, to get back to the OP's question of whether or not he could fight the unit he consolidated into, despite not having declared them as a target, BaconCatBug is correct in saying that no, he could not. While, as the OP points out, you are initiating a new fight, you're still going to get snagged on Step 3 of that fight and "units that charged this turn can only target enemy units that the charged in the previous phase".

But if he kills the unit he charged, in his first activation, then reactivates again, he still gets that nice bonus movement of 3" pile in and consolidation (6 total) and although he doesn't get to swing if he gets there because didn't declare? It'd still be a nice way to dart around

torblind wrote:
But if he kills the unit he charged, in his first activation, then reactivates again, he still gets that nice bonus movement of 3" pile in and consolidation (6 total) and although he doesn't get to swing if he gets there because didn't declare? It'd still be a nice way to dart around

ehhhhhhhh. It could be useful, under the right circumstances, for a unit that has the ability to lock other models in combat, against a unit with mediocre combat ability. But more often then not, I imagine it would just end with the unit consolidated into falling back when their turn comes around, and either running off, or attacking if they have the ability.

Right, but your unit got to move another 6" , is what I'm getting at, that possibility certainly could be useful

torblind wrote:
Right, but your unit got to move another 6" , is what I'm getting at, that possibility certainly could be useful

Locking tanks into combat was heavily used during tournaments. Berzerkers have the ability to murder the things guarding the tanks then consolidate into them to lock them into combat. Denying your enemy an entire turn of using his tanks is fairly potent.

And if I read the rules correctly, consolidating Berzerkers into another unit only prevents fighting in a turn where the Berzerkers charged. Once you get stuck in, and manage to consolidate/pile in into new units without having to charge, you can fight them all if you have multiple activations in the round, right?

Well a charging unit cab only fight a unit it charged, reactivation the same turn doesn't change that, unless specified.

I had a situation in a recent game where I charged 3 units of berzerkers into an enemy terminator squad. The first 2 berzerker squads killed the terminators fairly easily.

Because the third unit charged, it was allowed to activate even though there were no enemies within 1". And because they were berzerkers, they could activate twice. The nearest enemy unit was about 12" away, so between the two activations, the berzerkers were able to pile in and consolidate a total of 12" to lock that unit in place.

The berzerkers obviously couldn't attack, and in hindsight it probably would have been more beneficial to not do this, but it's worth keeping in mind in case you use or face berzerkers.

Malachon wrote:
And if I read the rules correctly, consolidating Berzerkers into another unit only prevents fighting in a turn where the Berzerkers charged. Once you get stuck in, and manage to consolidate/pile in into new units without having to charge, you can fight them all if you have multiple activations in the round, right?

It's if a unit charged "this turn", that it has to (and can only) target units that it charged in the previous phase. This would apply all the way through to the end of your Morale Phase (even though we obviously know there is no actual fighting going on in this phase), which would be after all activations of the charging Berserker unit. Thus, regardless of how dead you killed that unit you declared a charge against, any subsequent activations of the Berserkers through BFTBG or FoK couldn't be used to swing against a unit you hadn't declared a charge against (and suffered the overwatch from) previously this turn.

Think of it as overkilling a unit during shooting phase. Just because you have some wounds left in the pool doesn't mean you get to allocate them onto the unit next to the dead unit.

It would be a risk and reward situation - if you think youre going to overkill your target and would like to spread out your attacks you need to declare charges at both targets. It would be nice if there were some sort of 'sweeping advance' that allowed you to make a second 'charge' via pile in, but the current rule set is clear on who you (the charging unit) are allowed to allocate the attacks onto.

Something I havn't seen covered here is you can pile in to units you didn't declare an assault against but you can't fight them. This is a very common tactic for assault armies - because it allows you to tie up a shooting unit without taking it's over-watch. You can also do this with a consolidation move but the enemy can prevent this by making base contact with you during his pile in - because the rules state that you must move closer to the enemy model.

If you want to tie up things without suffering their overwatch, charge from around a corner. Charges do not require line of sight this edition. You can initiate your charge from behind blocking terrain and the enemy has to make his Overwatch shots against your current position. Which he can't because he can't see you. Big change from past editions.

I love cityscapes because my melee guys can get into combat without overwatch casualties fairly often.

 Arkaine wrote:
If you want to tie up things without suffering their overwatch, charge from around a corner. Charges do not require line of sight this edition. You can initiate your charge from behind blocking terrain and the enemy has to make his Overwatch shots against your current position. Which he can't because he can't see you. Big change from past editions.

I love cityscapes because my melee guys can get into combat without overwatch casualties fairly often.

Yeah I had a jetbike army absolutely destroy my tau with this. Saw it coming but nothing I can do about it. Hunkering down in buildings was to my downfall in this situation - here I am with 7 or more squads ready to cover each other with tau overwatch and I don't even get to overwatch once because of a few lone jetbikes charging from out of LOS.