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Made in us
War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire




There's always a lot of talk about how some units/factions are either severely over- or under-powered, but what units has 8th hit correctly for their points costs?
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Noise Marines imo.

Perfectly costed and not useless, with decent options to make them good (not fantastic, just good) at everything.

To be fair, this has basically been them for the past 3 editions. There's two reasons people didn't field them and that was because you needed to buy an expensive upgrade kit to get their options AND because Plague Marines and plague zombies were just so much better.

But Noise Marines are pretty good for their cost.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/18 18:03:43


Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Vespids. Now they only need a good plastic model with more options.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

You can hate me but I think that a standard leman russ, Predators, and hellhounds are in the right place when it comes to a well costed unit. Not too cheap that you HAVE to take it and not too much that you doubt yourself when selecting it.

17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I feel sorry for the pred. For what was suppose to be the most iconic space marine vehicle, it seldom sees use simply because it's too "boring" and other things do what it does better.

I love the model though, and really wish they weren't 70 bucks a pop, otherwise I'd have an entire army of them (I'll even paint them Blue so I can take one in the HQ slot with Cronus).

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

TAC marines.

Troops in general like grey hunters, blood claws, necron warriors, gaunts, ork boyz, kabalite warriors, firewarriors, sisters, eldar guardians, harlequins troupe... there are some undercosted troops and some other units that are very lackluster but I think troops in general are fairly costed.

 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Sydonian Dragoons are quickly working their way into the status of being one of my favourite units. They are super versatile in their application, being great at area denial and tying enemy units up, while also being able to throw some passable weight behind their swings. They have a great combination of features behind their statline, weapons, and abilities, but nothing really sticks out in any one way as being blatantly overpowered. They're just a solid workhorse of a unit that can do a lot of things in a pinch, and are super fun to play with because of that.

The best part is that because what they do is so wide reaching in its functionality, they don't really end up competing with anything else for any one specific goal, meaning that they rarely feel outclassed in whatever you might set them to do.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I was going to say Sydonian Dragoons for one of mine as well.

Personally I'm a real fan of Dark Eldar troops and the way they mix and match into a Raider transport. Wyches, Warriors, Incubi, Wracks, and until recently Scourges and Hellions (RIP Dark Eldar flexibility 2017) can be mixed and matched for a wonderful array of applications with each having their pluses and minuses.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I was going to say Tacs as well.

So many troops in the game feel like they're within 10-15% of eachother, but are simply better at different things. For instance:

-Tacs (SM/CSM/BA/etc)
-Scouts
-Guardians
-Fire Warriors
-Harlequins
-Fire Warriors
-Ork Boyz

I feel like each of those does different things, such that they're each a tradeoff. I think some are a little better overall than the others, but it feels like - in a vacuum - they're all about on the same page.

Throw in Robout Gilleman or other gak, and it breaks down. But on their face, they each feel right.

There are some trash troops (Kroot), and balance as a whole sucks at the edges (top competitive or bottom sucks-to-be-Martel (BA have no OP gak) ), but the middle seems so much more balanced across more books than it's been.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 13:06:18


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Space Marine Dreadnaughts & Helbrutes. Every previous edition I've seen them, Dreadnaughts have been a unit brought in for the love of the game, or because they were carrying double-ranged loadouts. Any time they were taken with the "fist + weapon" loadout, they were blown up early and never really impacted the game. Even when an enemy's army couldn't blow it up, staying away from it was easy.

Now, Dreadnaughts are much faster, and their weapons are often more impactful. They're not crazy difficult to kill, but they're also not easy to kill, which is a great middle ground. As a Chaos player, I put my Helbrute into almost all my lists because it's great fire support, and packs a wallop against vehicles or low-tier characters in close combat.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I used Helbrutes in 7th after the "4 attacks Errata." I found that it took more shots to kill them than it was generally worth, and Chaos Marines were pretty flexible with Psychic buffs/debuffs. I "did" use Havocs now and then, but the problem was they were a static element in an army that wanted to swamp the midfield, and their improved firepower meant less if a unit from Reserves got the drop on them.

There was a fringe build of Purifiers and BA Librarian Dreads (via the Chapter Ancients formation) I wanted to experiment with for comedic value but that build isn't a thing.

As for most balanced unit for 8th...hmm. Ork Weirdboyz, probably. They are quite amusing as a mobile smite battery in a mob, while not being as crazy-underpriced as Malefic Lords.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 15:55:38


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Tacs are overcosted for the current meta for sure. Fire warriors are too cheap at 8 pts. If tacs were as good as people say, ba wouldn't need op stuff.

Was gonna say predators.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/19 15:53:05


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I'm going to go with Terminators. They don't work in comp because they're aren't enough of them to benefit from Raven Guard or Gillyflower bullcaca but in a gack-less game they're a solid, survivable ground pounder. Especially now that they can jump back to their teleport beacon.

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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Too much overcharged plasma for terminators to be fairly priced.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Just means Storm shields are better than ever.
In addition while there is alot of plasma jumping around, the price of drop pods makes it far less likely to show up out of nowhere. Just teleport strike to dodge it and you're good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:05:10


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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




No, because you still lose entire models on a 1 or 2.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





And the shooter loses the model with the expensive gun on a 1.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Come now. You know there will be mass rerolls or guardsmen who don't matter if they die. Yes, it sucks for meqs w/o rerolls. As if that's a thing in 8th. Terminators are just as useless as ever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:08:46


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






If you run wolf termies at minimum cost it's 37 pts per model, for that you get a deep striking 2+/5++ that fires 4 times, and has 2 wounds. For barely over twice the cost of a vanilla marine you get twice the wounds, twice the shooting, deep strike, better armor, an invuln and a power weapon to boot. And like I said, Plasma is easy to spot and easy to dodge.

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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




You didn't say space cheese terminators, you just said terminators. BA terminators are a dumpster fire.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:12:45


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

If you are deepstriking your terminators in Plasma range you are playing them wrong.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




You may not have a choice depending on enemy list composition or objective considerations.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Regular terminators run at a measly 40 ppm and that extra 3 points nets you a freekin power fist.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:16:28


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Made in se
Swift Swooping Hawk





I was expecting more of "the best units in my faction/s are balanced" and less of "these basic things from across many armies".

Anyway, the best balanced units will obviously not be the OP standout units, so saying a unit isn't balanced because it struggles in the current meta is missing the point.

Overcharged Plasma is clearly OP by the way. As in, the abbreviation for it is literally OP.

Craftworld Sciatháin 4180 pts  
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




40 pp is a fortune in a game about 4-8 ppm bubblewrap.

Also, try playing vs double exocrine w/bubblewrap with terminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's the balance point then? Some theoretical generic list, or the ljsts i actually have to face?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:19:02


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Forget bubble wrap you're playing terminators. Just smash stuff then teleport back to the objectves at the last second.

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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




You don't live past step 1 in my experience. The local terminator fan lost 22 terminators vs nids in two turns. The harpy gun does 2 damage, exocrines are brutal and they have mass mortal wounds. Good luck.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Cream - in that case Shining Spears.

Can do some funky things. Scary shooting. Hard hitting first round of CC. Not a lot of attacks. Large footprint. Lots of points for 2W T4 3+.

May even start dipping into the OP end, but I don't think so.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Well don't play ALL terminators. Playing ALL of anything should get you punished. You've got to be flexible.

I stand by that it's a balanced unit for it's cost. That doesn't mean they should be played exclusively.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:24:37


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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 MattKing wrote:
Well don't play ALL terminators. Playing ALL of anything should get you punished. You've got to be flexible.


He had 25. Plenty of other stuff in the list. But those 25 terminators did nothing but kill gaunts and die. He was not given a choice by the tyranid player. I stand by then being significany overcosted given how the game plays. Screening units ruin them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:26:01


 
   
 
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