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Given that the Codices are only including units and options that have current GW models, how long after all Codices for a given codex are released will the "index only" options become invalid?

For example, Dreadnoughts with dual twin autocannons exist in the Marine Index, but not in the Space Marine codex.
GW has ruled that the option is still perfectly available and since Blood Angels, Dark Angles, Wolves and Deathwatch are yet to get Codices, the Index will remain for sale.
But what happens when all those armies do have have a Codex? Surely GW will stop selling the Index once all the rules have been updated.
At that point, those models/options will not only not have model support, but they will have no rules support either. Do you thing GW will then reverse its ruling that allows these options?

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Maybe.

Until all models are covered in a Codex or some kind of FAQ, the Index is supposed to apply to anything else.
I think GW will not reverse their ruling because models that have applicable rules will sell better, why shoot yourself in the foot?

Yea, they made it clear that you use the index untill the model/unit/upgrade has been covered by a codex/general supplement book.

So my guess is that after we get all the 8th editio codexes, we will get a new index that will contain the units/gear/models that was left out of the codex.

uz majority of thouse kits/options that did not make it to the codex are failcast, forgeworld or metal models.
Gw only wants to sell and ship plastic kits.

When 9th edition comes out.

As it stands, Index entries are only valid if the codex doesn't update them. Once they update, you're locked into Codex versions. It HAS to work this way, otherwise you could ignore any codex nerfs (like Conscripts), which is not how anyone with common sense can see the game is intended to work.

Basically, GW are telling you if you have old models with now illegal options, sucks to be you buy new models or use it as "counts as".

In other words, everyone with Index-only armies is now a Squat player. I see that going over well...

If you mean whether or not you can still play your index-only models (like the dual AC Dread) then they will still be there indefinitely.

If you mean you'll see updated rules for them other than maybe the odd points adjustment, nope. At least not for a long time. I don't think Tomb Kings or Bretonnia got an update at all until the General's Competitum.

I suspect that the options will remain valid throughout 8th edition, but there will simply not be a (legal) way to get the rules unless you already had them, similarly to the models. Then in 9th, they will be banned and forgotten entirely. That way GW can get rid of these old options while softening the blow for players who like them.

They might just post them online for free but with locked points and datasheets, generally making them worse and less desirable than current, in-print models.

GW may also update them somewhere down the line and then include the rules in the boxes. SM Commanders on Bikes are so ubiquitous that, short of nerfing them into oblivion, I doubt they will ever not be used if the option is available.

I really just don't see GW supporting any options that are not in the Codices once all of them are out for 8th. Particularly once they stop selling the Indexes (which will happen as soon as all the Codices are updated).

So while certain options are legal at the moment (Autocannon Dreads, Bike Librarians, Reaper launcher and/or Warp Jump Generator Autarchs, etc), I have a feeling that as soon as the Index with those rules stops being for sale, GW will update the FAQs in a way the no longer addresses these options and just ignores that they ever existed.
We as a community will have to decide it the options are legal, which will lead to inevitable disagreement, especially if players cannot produce the rules for them or if once produced, those rules come into question since they are no longer sold by GW.

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If GW stops selling the Indexes, does that mean the community can no longer use them?

Surely there would still be ways to get it.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
In other words, everyone with Index-only armies is now a Squat player. I see that going over well...

It's happened before and with the huge amount of goodwill and profits brought about by 8th I can see them doing it again with zero impact.

Honestly, how many players actually have an all Veteran Biker army anymore? A fraction of a fraction of 1%.

Following the AoS route and example, on 9th they will be still usable, but for 10th I doubt that Index will be still a thing.

Index-rules for models that didn't get updated for Codex are still valid... for now.

I wouldn't be surprised if the days for my Demolition Charge-guys will be numbered. Luckily, I estimate that the number of days will be well in several hundreds, ie. several years.

Wouldn't be surprised if Demo Charges (etc.) would be illegal in 9e. I would be positively surprised if the reverse will be true.

Edit: If you want to use your old models, I'd recommend picking the right Index sooner than later.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
In other words, everyone with Index-only armies is now a Squat player. I see that going over well...

My friend who has a full Squat army would be very offended by your statement.
At least they have some kind of rules to play unlike Squats.
We were just dusting off the old original rules to try to fit them into 8th now.
Sisters of Battle are the ones which has not seen any love for a long time other than the recent Saint model and the one special release model.
The index is the "best" update they have seen in ages (last one was some White Dwarf update I believe).

I guess my concern is less about whether or not I can use option X, but how long after GW no longer supports the Indexes (which WILL be in this edition once ALL Codices are updated) will the community be ok with using outdated books that contain option X.

I am not concerned so much if opponent A, B or C are ok with it in a casual game. Technically you can do what you want in casual games, even play older editions.
My issue is with the community as a whole which, for example, has moved on from 7th edition and generally does not play it. Therefore investing anything into any prior edition is not very advisable unless you have a select group that consistently still play it (which, again, most do not).

I don't have anything specific in mind, just discussing.

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It completely depends on when it suits GW's business model to obsolete given models.

 Talizvar wrote:
It completely depends on when it suits GW's business model to obsolete given models.

None of the Index-only options have currently supported models, which is why they don't have entries in their Codex.
Once all the Codices are updated, GW has zero incentive to continue printing Indexes since EVERY single model they currently produce will have rules in a Codex.
Why would they print rules for models they no longer make and therefore cannot make money on?
I think they have been burned in the past for not having models for a given unit or option in their own ruleset (Chapter House?)

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Keeping the Index in print and invalidating Index entries completely are two VERY different ideas.

Will the Indexes stop printing? More than likely once all the codices are released.

Will the Indexes become obsolete and invalid as a unit reference? I highly doubt it for the entirety of 8th. There are some units that are not in the Codex and are needed for some compositions - I'm looking at you White Scars and Moondraken.

They might just reprint the Index's after all codex's are out into 1 book and change some points/rules in those to make sure players have an "official updated datasheet" for every unit in the game and to sell more books.

Or throw it up for free online and forget about it like they did with Brets and Tomb Kings.

Honestly I'm just preparing the phased out stuff for eventually just being display pieces. Shame too cuz I really like my Lord on Juggernaut, even if he is the goofy Champion on Juggernaut from....3rd edition? Or was it 2nd?

With the new Eldar Start Collecting box, I looked into what's in each kit. It's weird to me that they made a big thing about only really allowing options that are in the box for some kits, yet some kits can't even supply the basic loadouts given in the rules.

My Terminator Ancient in the Blood Angels Assault Terminators box can only use one of the weapons options in that box, but the basic War Walker has 2 Shuriken Cannons, when there's only one in the box.

It seems particularly strange with Space Marines since it's so easy to customise them that we can't just stick any character on a bike. Hell, if nothing else, it'd encourage extra sales for them.

craggy wrote:
With the new Eldar Start Collecting box, I looked into what's in each kit. It's weird to me that they made a big thing about only really allowing options that are in the box for some kits, yet some kits can't even supply the basic loadouts given in the rules.

My Terminator Ancient in the Blood Angels Assault Terminators box can only use one of the weapons options in that box, but the basic War Walker has 2 Shuriken Cannons, when there's only one in the box.

I don't have a War Walker, does it really come with only one Shuriken Cannon? They really should give you the basic wargear for a model in the box, but I know the Hornet is subject to this as well. It comes with only one heavy weapon sprue, but you need two to kit it out with its basic weapons. You get two Hornet Pulse Lasers though.

That's more of a product of the time, since that was one of the 4th edition kits (where they still expected you to use bitz order to get all the parts you needed).

Just ask any Chaos Terminator Player who wants the same combi-weapon in the squad, or lightning claws. And Don't even get me started on people wanting combi-plasmas.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
They might just reprint the Index's after all codex's are out into 1 book and change some points/rules in those to make sure players have an "official updated datasheet" for every unit in the game and to sell more books.

I would agree with this statement. GW will condense all those individual data sheets into one book. At which point they may or may not update that book, depending on what they want to see in the future.

Likely in a couple years time or by the time 9ed rolls around they will have dropped all support for these legacy models.

However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some of these units and models may be reborn as new kits either, and return to their codex.

SpookyRuben wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
They might just reprint the Index's after all codex's are out into 1 book and change some points/rules in those to make sure players have an "official updated datasheet" for every unit in the game and to sell more books.

I would agree with this statement. GW will condense all those individual data sheets into one book. At which point they may or may not update that book, depending on what they want to see in the future.

Likely in a couple years time or by the time 9ed rolls around they will have dropped all support for these legacy models.

However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some of these units and models may be reborn as new kits either, and return to their codex.

Yeah i'm sure we will get some new kits for old models also.

I'm sure the Indexes will be available for years to come, probably through the entire life of 8th edition, since there will always be players that want to play certain Index-only units.

Will things like the Dual-Autocannon Dread and the Rough Riders get updates in subsequent Chapter Approved releases? Likely not. They'll keep their point values and weapon options even as better, more efficient options come out in Codexes.

GW did the Indexes to appease all of the older players, to say "Look, see? We didn't invalidate your armies!" But then they turn around and push the new stuff that they do still support into the new players hands saying "Oh, you don't need that extra Index as long as you've got the Codex! See all the shiny new models you can get?"

And that's just the way that it will be.

our gw no longer allows index if there is a codex for that force. Not sure thats the normal anywhere else.

 thekingofkings wrote:
our gw no longer allows index if there is a codex for that force. Not sure thats the normal anywhere else.

No.. thats the opposite of everyone, some units are ONLY int he index's. And GW has said the newest datasheet is legal rules either via Codex or Index.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:
our gw no longer allows index if there is a codex for that force. Not sure thats the normal anywhere else.

No.. thats the opposite of everyone, some units are ONLY int he index's. And GW has said the newest datasheet is legal rules either via Codex or Index.

obviously its not the opposite of everyone or it wouldnt be that way here.