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So, back before Nikaea, the Thousand Sons had the biggest and baddest Librarius.

Sanguinius and the Khan were pretty big on psykers and helped Magnus found the Librarius... presumably, they're rank 2 and 3 (or 3 and 2) in the list.

Where do the other Legions fall compared to them? I remember reading that the Emperor's Children didn't use them (hating mutations). I know a lot of Legions hated psykers but still had some (Angron) while others hated them and presumably didn't (Mortarion?). Russ, of course, was more than happy to use his rebranded psykers by telling himself it wasn't really the warp, even though its totally still the warp they're using. Which Primarchs had literally no psykers, other than the Children?

1. Thousand Sons
2-3. Blood Angels and White Scars
4-something. Dark Angels, Night Lords, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Ultramarines, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Space Wolves (whether they admit it or not)
Next to last. World Eaters
Last. Emperor's Children, Death Guard. Iron Hands, Iron Warriors

No idea/not sure. Sons of Horus, Imperial Fists

Not counted- II and XI

The Death guard were pretty superstitious when it came to psykers, so their numbers would be near the bottom as well.

Death Guard, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children all did not have a Librarius, though not all for the same reason.

Mortarion and Ferrus Manus hated them on principle. Perturabo felt they were too wild to control efficiently and reminded him too much of the Eye of Terror.

Fulgrim had no problem with them in other legions, but felt that if someone was a psyker, than they were considered permanently flawed and so would never find a place in the Emperor's Children.

Wolves were probably up there, though they kinda decided that theirs didn't count.

jareddm wrote:
Death Guard, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children all did not have a Librarius, though not all for the same reason.

Mortarion and Ferrus Manus hated them on principle. Perturabo felt they were too wild to control efficiently and reminded him too much of the Eye of Terror.

Fulgrim had no problem with them in other legions, but felt that if someone was a psyker, than they were considered permanently flawed and so would never find a place in the Emperor's Children.

What's great in the new chaos space marine codex the emperor's children are now trying to find MORE psykers. It's pretty much a "guys those sorcerers can actually make us feel stuff! We need more!"

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Wolves were probably up there, though they kinda decided that theirs didn't count.

fething hypocrites...

Given how the Imperial Fists treated their Libarians after the council I really can't say I feel they where partiuclarly valued by Dorn

 EmpNortonII wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Wolves were probably up there, though they kinda decided that theirs didn't count.

fething hypocrites...

Yes and no.

Wrath of Magnus showed that while Rune Priests do channel the warp, it gets filtered through the World Spirit of Fenris, an entity that at least superficially, appears hostile to Chaos. So it's both different and the same as a normal librarian.

I wouldnt think the Raven Guard had many, If at all.
The ship captain that had dreams about saving Corax on Istvaan. Just a regular guy, not a marine. Corax sent his rescue fleet on a suicide mission after he found out about his dreams.

BrianDavion wrote:
Given how the Imperial Fists treated their Libarians after the council I really can't say I feel they where partiuclarly valued by Dorn

Yeah it was harsh but he did that to keep them in ready for when they would be needed least they get wasted. Dorn knew they would be essential so he did kind of radical locking up them to keep them safe&ready for the end game.

It only just occurred to me I don't remember any mention of Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus librarians. Have there been any? I'm pretty sure in the Black Legion series there are no former SoH librarians either

I wonder if psykers could have saved Horus. I suppose Magnus tried but didn't succeed

They better have seeing I have kitbashed and painted one

jareddm wrote:
Death Guard, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children all did not have a Librarius, though not all for the same reason.

Mortarion and Ferrus Manus hated them on principle. Perturabo felt they were too wild to control efficiently and reminded him too much of the Eye of Terror.

Fulgrim had no problem with them in other legions, but felt that if someone was a psyker, than they were considered permanently flawed and so would never find a place in the Emperor's Children.

Is this official, or just fanon? I seem to have heard this claimed before, but cannot actually recall reading it.

And wasn’t Typhon formerly a Librarian Of The Death Guard before Nikea?

Typhon was 1st cap, that just happened to be a bit pskyerish.

 Lord Fishface wrote:

jareddm wrote:
Death Guard, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children all did not have a Librarius, though not all for the same reason.

Mortarion and Ferrus Manus hated them on principle. Perturabo felt they were too wild to control efficiently and reminded him too much of the Eye of Terror.

Fulgrim had no problem with them in other legions, but felt that if someone was a psyker, than they were considered permanently flawed and so would never find a place in the Emperor's Children.

Is this official, or just fanon? I seem to have heard this claimed before, but cannot actually recall reading it.

And wasn’t Typhon formerly a Librarian Of The Death Guard before Nikea?

Mortarion never had a Librarius as his hatred of psykers stems from his father and the other warlords of Barbarus.
Ferrus Manus states as such in the story Feat of Iron.
Pertuabo makes his stance known in HH7: Inferno
Fulgrim makes his stance known in HH1: Betrayal.

Mortarion had no Librarius, but Typhon was a psyker. He had to hide his psychic abilities and repress them from his own Primarch. However, his abilities as a warrior stemmed from his own strength, not his psychic strength.

This little snippit about the Council of Nikaea offers some good info.

Those actually in the Council and their stance on Psykers;

Magnus: in favor
Russ: against
Fulgrim, Sanguinius: proponents of their use
Morty: vehemently against
Corax: Favored the censure of Magnus
Dorn: Known not to favor their use.

Not personally present:

Lion: Openly favored neither side (ha!)
Perturabo: Against
Kahn, Kurze, Lorgar, Vulcan, Alpharius: supported
Guilliman: less vocal proponent of their use
Horus: favored neither side

I remember seeing that, and its cool, but it doesn't provide a basis for judging the Legions against each other... or even proving if the Sons of Horus actually had a Librarius themselves.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I remember seeing that, and its cool, but it doesn't provide a basis for judging the Legions against each other... or even proving if the Sons of Horus actually had a Librarius themselves.

I dunno, the Legions that are strongest in support of the Librarius proably have the most developed ones.

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I remember seeing that, and its cool, but it doesn't provide a basis for judging the Legions against each other... or even proving if the Sons of Horus actually had a Librarius themselves.

I dunno, the Legions that are strongest in support of the Librarius proably have the most developed ones.

I dunno. Curze is on the list as in favor, but his right-hand man actively repressed his psyker skills... until Curze got put into a coma.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I remember seeing that, and its cool, but it doesn't provide a basis for judging the Legions against each other... or even proving if the Sons of Horus actually had a Librarius themselves.

I dunno, the Legions that are strongest in support of the Librarius proably have the most developed ones.

I dunno. Curze is on the list as in favor, but his right-hand man actively repressed his psyker skills... until Curze got put into a coma.

no, it's simply a piece of the puzzle, in addition we can look at how they handled their psykers after the edict, as a sign. for example Gulliman putting them back into the rank and file of the UMs to me suggests that Ultimately Gulliman saw the Librarians as just another skill set. Dorn basicly shoved them in a room somewhere, on the off chance that maybe they'll be needed again but otherwise they where out of the way. the 1K sons, basicly just ignored it. etc

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


This little snippit about the Council of Nikaea offers some good info.

Those actually in the Council and their stance on Psykers;

Magnus: in favor
Russ: against
Fulgrim, Sanguinius: proponents of their use
Morty: vehemently against
Corax: Favored the censure of Magnus
Dorn: Known not to favor their use.

Not personally present:

Lion: Openly favored neither side (ha!)
Perturabo: Against
Kahn, Kurze, Lorgar, Vulcan, Alpharius: supported
Guilliman: less vocal proponent of their use
Horus: favored neither side

That's the part people get a bit wrong, Russ's beef wasn't with Psykers themselves, his issue was with the Librarius schooling/Librarius discipline being headed by Magnus because he was convinced both the Rubric Marines and the Wulfen were a direct result of Magnus stuffing with the Warp like a plaything.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


This little snippit about the Council of Nikaea offers some good info.

Those actually in the Council and their stance on Psykers;

Magnus: in favor
Russ: against
Fulgrim, Sanguinius: proponents of their use
Morty: vehemently against
Corax: Favored the censure of Magnus
Dorn: Known not to favor their use.

Not personally present:

Lion: Openly favored neither side (ha!)
Perturabo: Against
Kahn, Kurze, Lorgar, Vulcan, Alpharius: supported
Guilliman: less vocal proponent of their use
Horus: favored neither side

That's the part people get a bit wrong, Russ's beef wasn't with Psykers themselves, his issue was with the Librarius schooling/Librarius discipline being headed by Magnus because he was convinced both the Rubric Marines and the Wulfen were a direct result of Magnus stuffing with the Warp like a plaything.

Didn't Rubric Marines come after the battle of Prospero?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


This little snippit about the Council of Nikaea offers some good info.

Those actually in the Council and their stance on Psykers;

Magnus: in favor
Russ: against
Fulgrim, Sanguinius: proponents of their use
Morty: vehemently against
Corax: Favored the censure of Magnus
Dorn: Known not to favor their use.

Not personally present:

Lion: Openly favored neither side (ha!)
Perturabo: Against
Kahn, Kurze, Lorgar, Vulcan, Alpharius: supported
Guilliman: less vocal proponent of their use
Horus: favored neither side

That's the part people get a bit wrong, Russ's beef wasn't with Psykers themselves, his issue was with the Librarius schooling/Librarius discipline being headed by Magnus because he was convinced both the Rubric Marines and the Wulfen were a direct result of Magnus stuffing with the Warp like a plaything.

Didn't Rubric Marines come after the battle of Prospero?

They did, presumably he means the flesh change.

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


This little snippit about the Council of Nikaea offers some good info.

Those actually in the Council and their stance on Psykers;

Magnus: in favor
Russ: against
Fulgrim, Sanguinius: proponents of their use
Morty: vehemently against
Corax: Favored the censure of Magnus
Dorn: Known not to favor their use.

Not personally present:

Lion: Openly favored neither side (ha!)
Perturabo: Against
Kahn, Kurze, Lorgar, Vulcan, Alpharius: supported
Guilliman: less vocal proponent of their use
Horus: favored neither side

That's the part people get a bit wrong, Russ's beef wasn't with Psykers themselves, his issue was with the Librarius schooling/Librarius discipline being headed by Magnus because he was convinced both the Rubric Marines and the Wulfen were a direct result of Magnus stuffing with the Warp like a plaything.

Didn't Rubric Marines come after the battle of Prospero?

They did, presumably he means the flesh change.

And the Curse of the Wulfen has been present for way too long a time to be the cause of Magnus "stuffing with the warp"

Engrenages wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


This little snippit about the Council of Nikaea offers some good info.

Those actually in the Council and their stance on Psykers;

Magnus: in favor
Russ: against
Fulgrim, Sanguinius: proponents of their use
Morty: vehemently against
Corax: Favored the censure of Magnus
Dorn: Known not to favor their use.

Not personally present:

Lion: Openly favored neither side (ha!)
Perturabo: Against
Kahn, Kurze, Lorgar, Vulcan, Alpharius: supported
Guilliman: less vocal proponent of their use
Horus: favored neither side

That's the part people get a bit wrong, Russ's beef wasn't with Psykers themselves, his issue was with the Librarius schooling/Librarius discipline being headed by Magnus because he was convinced both the Rubric Marines and the Wulfen were a direct result of Magnus stuffing with the Warp like a plaything.

Didn't Rubric Marines come after the battle of Prospero?

They did, presumably he means the flesh change.

And the Curse of the Wulfen has been present for way too long a time to be the cause of Magnus "stuffing with the warp"

I know 40k history is bad but in the "Leman Russ" novel he blames the Wulfen and one of the TSons issues on Magnus.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I know 40k history is bad but in the "Leman Russ" novel he blames the Wulfen and one of the TSons issues on Magnus.

If Leman Russ's steak was overcooked at lunch he'd blame it on Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I know 40k history is bad but in the "Leman Russ" novel he blames the Wulfen and one of the TSons issues on Magnus.

If Leman Russ's steak was overcooked at lunch he'd blame it on Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

"THIS STEAK IS MEDIUM WELL?! I ASKED FOR MEDIUM RARE! WHAT SOURCERY IS THIS? MAAAAAAAAANGUS!"

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


I know 40k history is bad but in the "Leman Russ" novel he blames the Wulfen and one of the TSons issues on Magnus.

If Leman Russ's steak was overcooked at lunch he'd blame it on Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

"THIS STEAK IS MEDIUM WELL?! I ASKED FOR MEDIUM RARE! WHAT SOURCERY IS THIS? MAAAAAAAAANGUS!"

I can see a Bruva Alfabusa, super best friends tube of that.
Sun comes up, Maaaagnuss.
Sun goes down, Maaagnuss.
Starts raining, Maaaagnuss.
It would be full of facepalming and kitten saying, was he always like this.