Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/What-We-Know-About-Suspect-Battery-Park-City-Tribeca-Terror-454320243.html

Current report has 8 dead and 15 injured.

The 29-year-old man detained after a flatbed truck drove down a popular lower Manhattan bike path, killing at least 8 people and injuring more than a dozen more, has been identified as an Uzbek national who came to the United States in 2010.

Reports of guns are somewhat misleading. Current info says he had a bb gun and a paintball gun. No actual firearms.

"Suspect" is in custody after being shot by a policeman.

Great :(

Hope the death toll does not rise.
And I'm sure more info on suspects and motive come out in a day or two.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/23002/manhattan-attacker-identified-29-year-old-uzbek-emily-zanotti?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

"Police say that Saipov drove a rented truck over a curb and onto a bike path near the World Trade Center. After mowing over several pedestrians, Saipov crashed his truck into a school bus, injuring at least two adults and two children inside. He then jumped from the truck, screamed "Allah Akbar!" and ran toward a group of children, brandishing two items that appeared to be firearms."

Well I'm sure his preferred political ideology will have no relation at all to his actions...


On Halloween too of all days.

My condolences to the victims.

And I’ve got a horrible feeling that this is only going to be the first in another batch of attacks over the coming weeks.

 Crablezworth wrote:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/23002/manhattan-attacker-identified-29-year-old-uzbek-emily-zanotti?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

"Police say that Saipov drove a rented truck over a curb and onto a bike path near the World Trade Center. After mowing over several pedestrians, Saipov crashed his truck into a school bus, injuring at least two adults and two children inside. He then jumped from the truck, screamed "Allah Akbar!" and ran toward a group of children, brandishing two items that appeared to be firearms."

Well I'm sure his preferred political ideology will have no relation at all to his actions...


On Halloween too of all days.

I did not want to assume. But this seems pretty solid clue to motivation. It's hard to argue against that.

We need to do more to find these freaks.

To be honest, until now I didn't even know the Republic of Uzbekistan existed.

200+ nations, you don't need to know them all.

IIRC It is one of the breakaway territories of the Soviet Union that were once part of Tsarist Russia but had a non-Russian ethnic majority.
Ukbekistan gained sovereignty as part of the break up of the Soviet Union.

Literally everything I know about Uzbekistan I know from Borat.

This feels so much like the situation of those brothers who put that bomb at the finish line of the Boston marathon a few years back. Immigrant child comes to America with his parents, later becoming radicalized, and finally carrying out a lone wolf attack.

It doesn't matter if ISIS was responsible or not. There's a culture of radicals and murderous ideologues in that area of the world that nobody seems willing to deal with. Each attack like this simply emboldens others to do the same. To be honest, I'm surprised there haven't been more of these car attacks already.

EDIT: 2010 arrival puts him at 21 or 22, so not a child. Still no word yet on how early he became radicalized.

 Breotan wrote:
This feels so much like the situation of those brothers who put that bomb at the finish line of the Boston marathon a few years back. Immigrant child comes to America with his parents, later becoming radicalized, and finally carrying out a lone wolf attack.

It doesn't matter if ISIS was responsible or not. There's a culture of radicals and murderous ideologues in that area of the world that nobody seems willing to deal with. Each attack like this simply emboldens others to do the same. To be honest, I'm surprised there haven't been more of these car attacks already.

EDIT: 2010 arrival puts him at 21 or 22, so not a child. Still no word yet on how early he became radicalized.

He predates IS on arivial. It likely was when in the US not outside it.
Also. While I know about as little as everyone else, Uzbekistan is not exactly a known jihadists hot spot.

It does not come up on axis of evil etc.

If you wanted jihadists. Then chechnia, a few others known for. Not his country far as I know.

 jhe90 wrote:
Also. While I know about as little as everyone else, Uzbekistan is not exactly a known jihadists hot spot.

It does not come up on axis of evil etc.

If you wanted jihadists. Then chechnia, a few others known for. Not his country far as I know.

Newsweek would like to disagree with you.

http://www.newsweek.com/new-york-terror-attack-makes-americans-wonder-are-terrorists-coming-uzbekistan-698120

I know the area. It's near the WTC. No virgins for you slappy.

Village Halloween Parade Still On Despite Deadly Attack in Lower Manhattan

GOOD!

Earlier this year there was an attack in Stockholm, the capital of Sweden, perpetrated by an Uzbek man using a lorry to mow people down. He had reportedly expressed sympathies for Daesh, but he seemed more like a man who'd given in to despair and only used religion as an excuse, and a way to get more attention.

There are certainly religious fanatics who commit atrocities in the name of Islam, but I wouldn't assume the true motive to be religious just because the perpetrator says so. For some, admitting you're an extremist is easier than admitting you're a loser.

My condolences to those affected by this attack. Such waste of life.

 Cream Tea wrote:
There are certainly religious fanatics who commit atrocities in the name of Islam, but I wouldn't assume the true motive to be religious just because the perpetrator says so.

Yelling god is great in arabic... obviously mental illness.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Yelling god is great in arabic... obviously mental illness.

These actions seem sane to you?

Claiming a higher cause such as religion when you're really a deranged person murdering for murder's sake isn't unheard of.

Being driven to committing atrocities by extreme religiosity also isn't unheard of. I don't know which one this is, could be a mixture.

Anyway, religion bears a striking resemblance to mental illness.

If a Christian man commits an act of terror we ask what the real motive could be, or look for some other issue that could drive a man to such a murderous rampage.

If a Muslim man commits an act of terror we assume that's enough by itself, case closed.

You're right, it was probably a spur of the moment type of murderous killing spree, the kind that stretch on for a mile. Crime of passion.You know, you just rent a pickup truck one day from home depot and decide, shucks, life just ain't worth a livin, better mow down women and children while shouting the takbir.



He's obviously just a hipster or amish. Glad they got this guy alive.

 Crablezworth wrote:
You're right, it was probably a spur of the moment type of murderous killing sprees that stetch for a mile. You know, you just rent a pickup from home depot and decide, shucks, life just ain't worth a livin, better mow down women and children while shouting the takbir.

Renting a pickup and mowing down civilians armed with a BB gun and a paintball gun (in the US where real guns are quite accessible) doesn't sound like an evil master plan coming to fruition after years of planning. It sounds like the acts of a human being gone off the rails.

If you're a Muslim and decide to go on a murderous rampage, you may well decide to invoke Allah and claim connections to Daesh just because you know it gets you more publicity.

The WTC attacks in 2001 were Islamist terrorist attacks. They were planned, coordinated and mentally prepared for way in advance, all for a religious-political cause.

This is very far from that.

 sebster wrote:


If a Muslim man commits an act of terror we assume that's enough by itself, case closed.

When he's yelling the takbir while murdering women and children it's probably a good bet.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sebster wrote:
If a Christian man commits an act of terror we ask what the real motive could be, or look for some other issue that could drive a man to such a murderous rampage.

Yes, we all scratch our heads, shrug out shoulders and do some real obfuscation and magic thinking every time a christian gets arrested for murdering a doctor or bombing an abortion clinic. Gimme a break seb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
You're right, it was probably a spur of the moment type of murderous killing sprees that stetch for a mile. You know, you just rent a pickup from home depot and decide, shucks, life just ain't worth a livin, better mow down women and children while shouting the takbir.

Renting a pickup and mowing down civilians armed with a BB gun and a paintball gun (in the US where real guns are quite accessible) doesn't sound like an evil master plan coming to fruition after years of planning. It sounds like the acts of a human being gone off the rails.

If you're a Muslim and decide to go on a murderous rampage, you may well decide to invoke Allah and claim connections to Daesh just because you know it gets you more publicity.

The WTC attacks in 2001 were Islamist terrorist attacks. They were planned, coordinated and mentally prepared for way in advance, all for a religious-political cause.

This is very far from that.

An uzbek national (96% muslim) stateside on a visa lottery plans and executes a terror attack killing 8 and injuring more while yelling "allahu akbar" (the takbir) and you're still waiting for which facts exactly? I bet the boston bombers were just a couple a good kids who lost their way.... just misunderstood.. ya .. ya know? Nothing to do with a certain political ideology that rhymes with fizzz-lamb.

No one in here committed the attack, no one in here is excusing the attack.

Respond to other users politely, in line with Rule 1, or the topic goes away

"Note About ISIS Found in Truck Used in NYC Terrorist Attack, Sources Say"

"Police have found a note inside that truck that was used Tuesday to run down people on a bike path in lower Manhattan that indicates the suspect claimed to have carried out the attack for the Islamic State terrorist group, law enforcement sources said."


https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/nyc-terrorist-attack/note-about-isis-found-truck-used-nyc-terrorist-attack-sources-n816276



The note seems rather conclusive.

So, it was a Truck of Peace attack, huh? Good thing he didn't use a semi like the jihadis in Europe have done. The body count may have been higher.


I'm just waiting for the Western World's Terrorism Response Guide to come into play.


Step 1: Sad, tearful cartoons

Step 2: Facebook flag filters

Step 3: Tearful candlelight vigils in the media

Step 4: Light up some buildings

Step 5: Worry about a "backlash" that never happens

Step 6: Wash, Rinse, Repeat.


My condolences to the victims and their families. But I know nothing will be done to cut back on the chances of it happening again.

 Ouze wrote:
Literally everything I know about Uzbekistan I know from Borat.

Ummm, thats Kazakhstan.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Literally everything I know about Uzbekistan I know from Borat.

Ummm, thats Kazakhstan.

Borat was always speaking ill of uzbekistani's on the show and in the movie.

I don't doubt the attacker wants it to be known as an Islamist terror attack, I just doubt that's what's really behind it. It may be, but the fact remains that if you want your attack to be more pulicised, swearing allegiance to Daesh and yelling Allahu akbar will help a lot.

His actions are inexcusable in either case, and it's not unreasonable to believe that Islamism was the main motivating factor here. However, I believe it's at least as reasonable to believe he's a man unhappy with life who decided to commit this horrendous act and added Islam for extra attention.

I don't think his motivations are of any real importance compared to the damage he's done though, and focussing on them isn't very meaningful. You commit an act like this to be noticed, and the more we focus on the perpetrator, the more we do what he wants. I'm glad they got him alive, now let justice have its course. Don't give him the fame he craves. Don't fear him. He's not worth that.

 Cream Tea wrote:


it's not unreasonable to believe that Islamism was the main motivating factor here. However, I believe it's at least as reasonable to believe he's a man unhappy with life who decided to commit this horrendous act and added Islam for extra attention.

Would you say the same of the uzbeki national who murdered 15 innocent people in april of this year in Sweden? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/truck-crashes-crowd-people-stockholm/

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:


it's not unreasonable to believe that Islamism was the main motivating factor here. However, I believe it's at least as reasonable to believe he's a man unhappy with life who decided to commit this horrendous act and added Islam for extra attention.

Would you say the same of the uzbeki national who murdered 15 innocent people in april of this year in sweden? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/truck-crashes-crowd-people-stockholm/

The total number of dead was five. And indeed, as I commented on that attack in my first post in this thread, I don't think he did it because of Islam. He didn't even seem to know the difference between Shia and Sunni Islam, as he expressed sympathies for Islamist organisations from both branches. His life was in shambles, his wife seems to have left him, he had no job, he faced deportation and he appeared to be spending his time mostly smoking and sleeping.

His actions are still inexcusable.

Two points I'd like to add:

Why, in a world where we have SO many Islamic extremists committing these atrocities, do we need to suddenly disregard Islamic extremism as a motive? Seems pretty cut and dry.



Also, does this mean we need stricter vehicle laws in the US?