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Posting link and info from that link only,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41880511

27 confirmed dead, up to the same number (on early reports) injured.

And the pile of bleeding corpses continues to grow.

Why is this news considered a tragedy anymore?

Sad, i saw this on FB ::(

No ID on shooter, why or anything like that.

Only cluse from one outlet was wearing "militry" gear, which by online and shops anyone can get there hands on and is no clue at all.

Nothing known bar the above.

Can't we have one good day :(

Who knows?

*Sigh* Here we go again.

Sutherland is pretty country and small. Likely the shooter knew the congregation. Supposedly average service is about 50 which means he effectively shot almost everyone.

Twitchy. I was head usher at our church today.

Damn crazy. What possible reason is there to attack people peacefully going to church?

I don't go to church but I don't stop anyone else from going if they want to.

Spetulhu wrote:
What possible reason is there to attack people peacefully going to church?

Wrong Religion
A Religion
Wrong Denomination
Wrong Skin Colour
Church Elder looked at the shooter funny yesterday
Someone knocked on the shooters door
Personal grudge
It's [insert day here] in America
etc.

reasons, in short. Will have to wait to find out why. My condolences to those affected.

Town population is 683 per CNN, 50 dead or wounded, think about that percentage.

Spetulhu wrote:
Damn crazy. What possible reason is there to attack people peacefully going to church?

People find reasons to do many things, and the sad truth is that if you really want to cause havoc you can likely do so. One of the things discouraging people is the risk involved, but for some it seems not even their own lives are worth anything.

We don't know the attacker's motive, it may be religious, it may be personal, it may be something else entirely. I think it changes little, as at least 25 people are dead. That's what really matters.

This time the attacker lost his life committing this heinous act. Though I would have preferred he be captured alive and prosecuted, this is at least preferable to escape.

It's sad that massacres like this are so common, in a way it was better in ages past when one person going off the rails couldn't cause so much damage. I hope Sutherland Springs can cope with this, in a small town it's pretty likely everyone knew at least some of the victims.

Spetulhu wrote:
Damn crazy. What possible reason is there to attack people peacefully going to church?

I don't go to church but I don't stop anyone else from going if they want to.

To hazard a guess?

Probably a member of the church, or someone related to a member, had some sort of falling out with the church or someone there.

It makes one wonder though...while overall violent crime and shootings are trending downward over time (you're *way* less likely to get shot, especially on the street, today, than you were in 1991 or 1984 or 1975 for instance), spree killings are up dramatically. When you could mail order a fully automatic weapon and have it delivered to your door by the USPS without any sort of background check, the idea that someone would walk into a school, church, dance hall/club, etc and just kill a dozen or two dozen or 50 people was incomprehensible. Something has changed in society. General violence has dropped, fewer people are shot in general now than in previous eras, but headline grabbing massacres that once were unheard of are now events that seem to happen a couple times a year. There has been a change of mindset, in that violence increasingly is less about survival (muggings, theft, etc) or crime related (gang territory, drug deals, etc) or heat-of-the-moment passionate emotions. These sorts of things are drawing less and less violence. However, increasingly shootings seem to be about getting noticed and making headlines, leaving a legacy of some sort and filling some sort of void, about hitting back at *something*. It is increasingly pre-planned with large bodycounts being the point.

Not sure what that says, but there has definitely been a change.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Damn crazy. What possible reason is there to attack people peacefully going to church?

I don't go to church but I don't stop anyone else from going if they want to.

To hazard a guess?

Probably a member of the church, or someone related to a member, had some sort of falling out with the church or someone there.

It makes one wonder though...while overall violent crime and shootings are trending downward over time (you're *way* less likely to get shot, especially on the street, today, than you were in 1991 or 1984 or 1975 for instance), spree killings are up dramatically.

True dat... seems mass shooting itself is on the rise though.

When you could mail order a fully automatic weapon and have it delivered to your door by the USPS without any sort of background check,

Nothing here is legal. In fact, many who facilitated this would serve hard time in club fed

the idea that someone would walk into a school, church, dance hall/club, etc and just kill a dozen or two dozen or 50 people was incomprehensible. Something has changed in society. General violence has dropped, fewer people are shot in general now than in previous eras, but headline grabbing mass
ares that once were unheard of are now events that seem to happen a couple times a year. There has been a change of mindset, in that violence increasingly is less about survival (muggings, theft, etc) or crime related (gang territory, drug deals, etc) or heat-of-the-moment passionate emotions. These sorts of things are drawing less and less violence. However, increasingly shootings seem to be about getting noticed and making headlines, leaving a legacy of some sort and filling some sort of void, about hitting back at *something*. It is increasingly pre-planned with large bodycounts being the point.

Not sure what that says, but there has definitely been a change.

Not sure if I agree here...

I mean... sure, there's a rise of riotings due to Antifa/BLM/etc... it's amazeballs no one brought some serious firepower.

 Frazzled wrote:
Town population is 683 per CNN, 50 dead or wounded, think about that percentage.

That's got to be some kind of achievement unlocked.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Damn crazy. What possible reason is there to attack people peacefully going to church?

I don't go to church but I don't stop anyone else from going if they want to.

To hazard a guess?

Probably a member of the church, or someone related to a member, had some sort of falling out with the church or someone there.

It makes one wonder though...while overall violent crime and shootings are trending downward over time (you're *way* less likely to get shot, especially on the street, today, than you were in 1991 or 1984 or 1975 for instance), spree killings are up dramatically. When you could mail order a fully automatic weapon and have it delivered to your door by the USPS without any sort of background check, the idea that someone would walk into a school, church, dance hall/club, etc and just kill a dozen or two dozen or 50 people was incomprehensible. Something has changed in society. General violence has dropped, fewer people are shot in general now than in previous eras, but headline grabbing massacres that once were unheard of are now events that seem to happen a couple times a year. There has been a change of mindset, in that violence increasingly is less about survival (muggings, theft, etc) or crime related (gang territory, drug deals, etc) or heat-of-the-moment passionate emotions. These sorts of things are drawing less and less violence. However, increasingly shootings seem to be about getting noticed and making headlines, leaving a legacy of some sort and filling some sort of void, about hitting back at *something*. It is increasingly pre-planned with large bodycounts being the point.

Not sure what that says, but there has definitely been a change.

Well to start there's the fact that such shootings make headlines encouraging others who want to go out with a bang. So just the fact that they are on the rise can cause them to rise further in a sort of perverse popularity spiral. Also, we have a lot more people in the US now that are simply disillusioned with society and the establishment -- wealth is focused at the top more now than since the 1920s and you can't go two metaphorical steps without someone talking hatred about something. Whites hating blacks, men hating women, democrats hating republicans, labor hating immigrants, etc. The media chases negativity to get more views, but then gets stuck in a cycle where anything that isn't high enough on the 'disaster is imminent' scale doesn't seem newsworthy. Further, with the internet and social media people are inundated in that toxicity all the time. The current political situation has only made this all much, much worse.

In the US the idea of the 'American Dream' where anyone can make something of themselves is very pervasive, to the point where if someone doesn't make something of themselves it's considered a failure (regardless of how numerous or legitimate the reasons may be). Now the American dream hasn't ever been true (yet), but for many it's further away now than it has been in anyone's lifetime. Going out with a mass shooting is a way to be someone important, if only for a moment, and I think that makes it an attractive option to people who have simply given up.

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
When you could mail order a fully automatic weapon and have it delivered to your door by the USPS without any sort of background check,

Nothing here is legal. In fact, many who facilitated this would serve hard time in club fed

I think you totally misunderstood what Vaktathi was saying here and should re-read that.

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Town population is 683 per CNN, 50 dead or wounded, think about that percentage.

That's got to be some kind of achievement unlocked.

Congratulations, you have exceeded 5% lethality!

Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Town population is 683 per CNN, 50 dead or wounded, think about that percentage.

That's got to be some kind of achievement unlocked.

Dang, that's like 1 in 14 plus most churches people go as family or extended family :(

Sad days indeed in that town.

Mario wrote:
Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Honestly it doesn't even matter anymore, the right and the NRA are so entrenched in their ideals that any change no matter how small won't happen no matter the body count or its victims

Devin Patrick Kelley named as the perp.

Apparently a local.

Mario wrote:Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Ustrello wrote:

Mario wrote:
Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Honestly it doesn't even matter anymore, the right and the NRA are so entrenched in their ideals that any change no matter how small won't happen no matter the body count or its victims

.......Aaaaaaand we're off!


I predict that this thread will get locked withing five pages, with several warnings, a couple of time-outs, and a possible ban from OT for a couple of weeks.



Anyway, my condolences to the victims and their families. But if the shooter an heroes, or decides to go out in a blaze of glory (if he or she hadn't already), we may never know the motive or rationale.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Devin Patrick Kelley named as the perp.

Apparently a local.

Arrested or killed?

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

Mario wrote:Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Ustrello wrote:

Mario wrote:
Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Honestly it doesn't even matter anymore, the right and the NRA are so entrenched in their ideals that any change no matter how small won't happen no matter the body count or its victims

.......Aaaaaaand we're off!


I predict that this thread will get locked withing five pages, with several warnings, a couple of time-outs, and a possible ban from OT for a couple of weeks.



Anyway, my condolences to the victims and their families. But if the shooter an heroes, or decides to go out in a blaze of glory (if he or she hadn't already), we may never know the motive or rationale.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Devin Patrick Kelley named as the perp.

Apparently a local.

Arrested or killed?

Not all of us can care about people getting killed or trying to fix an obviously broken system

http://www.smobserved.com/story/2017/11/05/news/texas-church-shooter-is-in-southerland-springs-tx-is-identified-as-devon-patrick-kelly/3188.html

Not sure how reliable.

Former Marine.
Muslim convert.

Do not know how or if ever accurate.
Information taken with a mountain of salt.

 Ustrello wrote:

Mario wrote:
Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Honestly it doesn't even matter anymore, the right and the NRA are so entrenched in their ideals that any change no matter how small won't happen no matter the body count or its victims

The number of people that die in mass shootings is absolutely tiny. Further, if we really wanted to look into curbing the rate of gun death's we would look into upgrading our law enforcement practices. Gun rights are just an easy way for politicians to score points with their respective constituencies. It's either "restrict guns to protect you!" or "keep guns available to protect you!" which are very simple positions to take and publicize.

 Ustrello wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

Mario wrote:Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Ustrello wrote:

Mario wrote:
Anybody have an idea when between the last shooting and this one would the appropriate time have been to discuss this "without politicising it"? And will politicians dare to throw out the usual offhanded "thoughts and prayers" comment? A church is probably the place of peak prayer.

Honestly it doesn't even matter anymore, the right and the NRA are so entrenched in their ideals that any change no matter how small won't happen no matter the body count or its victims

.......Aaaaaaand we're off!


I predict that this thread will get locked withing five pages, with several warnings, a couple of time-outs, and a possible ban from OT for a couple of weeks.



Anyway, my condolences to the victims and their families. But if the shooter an heroes, or decides to go out in a blaze of glory (if he or she hadn't already), we may never know the motive or rationale.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Devin Patrick Kelley named as the perp.

Apparently a local.

Arrested or killed?

Not all of us can care about people getting killed or trying to fix an obviously broken system

Killed. Chase. Cops brought him down shortly after. No active shooter.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
.......Aaaaaaand we're off!


I predict that this thread will get locked withing five pages, with several warnings, a couple of time-outs, and a possible ban from OT for a couple of weeks.

Much like groundhog day, we can do this all again in 2 weeks, so it really doesn't matter in what manner we choose to discuss this, does it?

 jhe90 wrote:
http://www.smobserved.com/story/2017/11/05/news/texas-church-shooter-is-in-southerland-springs-tx-is-identified-as-devon-patrick-kelly/3188.html

Not sure how reliable.

Former Marine.
Muslim convert.

Do not know how or if ever accurate.
Information taken with a mountain of salt.

Fake news I believe. That same muslim name was floating around the less legit sites after the vegas shooting as well.

 Ouze wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
.......Aaaaaaand we're off!


I predict that this thread will get locked withing five pages, with several warnings, a couple of time-outs, and a possible ban from OT for a couple of weeks.

Much like groundhog day, we can do this all again in 2 weeks, so it really doesn't matter in what manner we choose to discuss this, does it?

We should have one person martyr themselves by posting the whole back-and-forth all at once, complete with escalation to rule violations. That way the rest of us will feel no need to express our views since they will have been covered already!

 nels1031 wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
http://www.smobserved.com/story/2017/11/05/news/texas-church-shooter-is-in-southerland-springs-tx-is-identified-as-devon-patrick-kelly/3188.html

Not sure how reliable.

Former Marine.
Muslim convert.

Do not know how or if ever accurate.
Information taken with a mountain of salt.

Fake news I believe. That same muslim name was floating around the less legit sites after the vegas shooting as well.

As I said. Mountain of salt.

First reports rarely accurate outside big news media.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
.......Aaaaaaand we're off!


I predict that this thread will get locked withing five pages, with several warnings, a couple of time-outs, and a possible ban from OT for a couple of weeks.

Much like groundhog day, we can do this all again in 2 weeks, so it really doesn't matter in what manner we choose to discuss this, does it?

We should have one person martyr themselves by posting the whole back-and-forth all at once, complete with escalation to rule violations. That way the rest of us will feel no need to express our views since they will have been covered already!

I wonder how hard it would be to make an automated template for this kind of thread, complete with a botted account getting warnings from a botted mod. It would save Motyak a lot of hassle.