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Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say



UK

Why is Sanguinius so much more deader than when Fulgrim got shot in the head, Curze got flayed by the Lion and the Lion surviving Caliban blowing up and many other near death incidences of primarchs?

Just wondering,

Thanks


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Because Horus made sure he was dead. Fulgrim's skull wasnt penetrated, the Curze was only stabbed and out of action for a while and the Lion was teleported off the planet.

Always confirm the kill.
   
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Stubborn Prosecutor





GW did release a diorama of his corpse lying out before Horus. Moreover, I can't believe any reliable plot line that would explain how one of the more hotheaded and fatherly primarches just didn't get around to actually helping his chapter or fighting chaos.


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Taffy17 wrote:
Why is Sanguinius so much more deader than when Fulgrim got shot in the head, Curze got flayed by the Lion and the Lion surviving Caliban blowing up and many other near death incidences of primarchs?

Just wondering,

Thanks


Primarch can survive quite a bit of punishment so that accounts for Fulgrim and Curze. They are simply so darn resilient it takes quite an effort to take one out. Chaos god boosted Horus is capable of such a feat when he's putting effort to it and has time to do it.

And Lion got likely rescued by watchers in the dark. Outside help helps quite a bit.

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Of all the Primarchs, none of the other chapters have "spill down" effects of their Primarch dying, unlike the Blood Angels and their Red Thirst / Death Company.

Plus, it's like an origin story. If you're killed in an origin story, you stay dead. Like Batman's parents. Except, it's the Emperor's son, and it's the origin story of how the Emperor killed Horus, and then got stuck on the Golden Throne.

So... that's why he's deader than any other Primarch. He died in the origin story of 40k, and by cannon his sons have been experiencing his psychic backlash-death for 10 000 years.
   
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Yeah, Sanguinius is 100% dead. No question about it.

Of course, among anyone in 40k, he's the most likely one to come back from death.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Cause he died for your sins. He's basically 40k Jesus. If any of them should not come back, it's him, Horus, and Curze.
   
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Only a primarch can kill a primarch, so they say. Unless your Vulcan. It being GDubs means they have to hold to that tenet.
Though how Alpha and Omega manage to not kill each other growing up, ill never know.

I could see the Sanguinala praise for the day, bringing something back.
And lo, on the 10000 year of his ascension, thine warp storm did rolleth aside.
And how, thine angels did lament as thine Red Angel strode forth, with a roar.

It shouldve been Sanguinius. Its going to be.



   
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HoundsofDemos wrote:
Cause he died for your sins. He's basically 40k Jesus. If any of them should not come back, it's him, Horus, and Curze.


I wouldn't mind seeing Curze back as a daemon prince of Malal.

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Looking for the Rest of the II Legion

Won't be surprised if GW brings the golden boy back for marketing reasons, but lore-wise he was thoroughly pulverized.


 
   
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Abel





Washington State

Sanguinius is dead. Long live Sanguinius!

He'll come back. Mark my words! And he'll reward all the loyalist Blood Angels! He'll rise out of the Pumpkin Patch and give all the good little Blood Angels toys, and candy and stuff! You'll see!

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His death has narrative significance. If you survive your martyrdom, that kind of makes it meaningless.
   
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Everyones collective memory, I bet created the sanguinor, but apart from that he's dead, completely and utterly.

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 Albino Squirrel wrote:
His death has narrative significance. If you survive your martyrdom, that kind of makes it meaningless.


Don't tell that to Christianity though...

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Cause he died for your sins. He's basically 40k Jesus.


Guess who came back after 3 days?

But yeah, I agree, Sanguinius should not be brought back. It would make the whole Black Rage Angst thing the BA have going for them completely pointless.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/10 22:06:59


 
   
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Swift Swooping Hawk





Imho i think Sanguinius or the true one shall remain dead but a substitute may raise back.

I toy with the idea that some Blood Angel (Mephiston it's my personal favourite due being psychic and be able to control the black rage) inherit most of Sanguinius memories and become a kind of Reincarnation.

The resulting being should be verging among the 2 personalities trying to balance itself because the memories of the True Sanguinius bring him near to some kind of berserk Rage after his death at the hands of Horus.
   
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I've always took it to be any primarch could come back except horus as in the final battle the emp killed him and destroyed his soul so it follows the primarchs souls are out their with the possibility of resurrection or why else would the emp destroy horus's soul
   
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Except for that one time when Fabious Bile created a clone of Horus.
   
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Mallich wrote:
Except for that one time when Fabious Bile created a clone of Horus.


The clone did not have a soul though so was 'incapable', which to me means it was probably a shell of what it should have been.

If the Ynarri can momentarily resurrect thousand sons, they can put flesh back up on Sagnuinius' skeleton. Not saying they will or should, but it is possible.

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He copied the physical but considering how easily abbadon dispatched it, I'd say he didn't truly revive him. Soz fabius emps is stil better at this game than you are.




 
   
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Because Horus totally obliterated Sanguinius' soul in addition to his body.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





The guy is the angel Primarch of a chapter/legion of vampire themed SM after all. But If GW were to bring back Sanguinius the devastation of Baal plotline would have been the way to do it IMO. With so many of his sons dying close to his tomb and the warp shenanigans from the great rift. Resurrection through blood sacrifice is an old vampire trope.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/12 22:33:44


 
   
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HoundsofDemos wrote:
Cause he died for your sins. He's basically 40k Jesus. If any of them should not come back, it's him, Horus, and Curze.


This. Let Sanguinius be dead. Or go the route of Dante going black rage and becomming the terrifying warrior with both his own 1400years and Sanguinius 400years worth of memories. With the powers granted by the rage I'd honestly like to see any 40k character try to take him on then, primarchs included.

Although tbh I wouldn't be surprised if they bring Sanguinius back to drive model sales.

His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
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Any dead primarch can be resurrected by the psychich abilities GWs marketing department.
   
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Damsel of the Lady




A fun twist would be to have Sanguinus return as a mad Daemon Primarch (his soul thrown to the Warp Gods after defeating him). GW could then have Horus return as a loyalist one by saying the Emperor actually made him something like Celestine instead of 'erasing' him.

It's just tacky and oddball enough to fit!
   
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Aqshy, realm of Fire

Sangy is dead. During the Heresy he knew he was going to die as he suffered from visions, sorta like Curze. While he wanted to change the outcome of not dying to Horus, he accepted the fact that he had to die for the Imperium to live.

I'd recommend getting the newest HH novel: Ruinstorm, as it goes into this quite a bit and explains why the Ultras were delayed, the Dark Angels are a bunch of filthy trai...I mean...weren't also present despite being ENTIRELY and UTTERLY LOYAL.
Spoiler:
It also cements that fact that Sangy, for better or worse is going to die, leaving his sons with a second flaw :(



IF GW were going to bring Sangunius back, at least tie it into the near-destruction of Baal and that the sheer number of blood angels dying created a Black Rage version of Sanguinius as
Spoiler:
It's revealed that Sanguinius can 'feel' the Black Rage as an unwoken warp entity/thing, kinda like the slumbering Ynnead. He realises that his death is set in stone, given that the ONE and ONE only future where he kills Horus and not dies ends up with the Imperium being even worse than the 40k state.Plus it was Tzeentch induced too, so blue bird of happiness shenanigans.

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he is primarch jesus and jesus big deal, other than the cross stuff, was him coming back from the dead.
But lorewise he is better dead.

Plus if they bring him back, that would mean loyalist have more primarchs than heretics and to correct the balance they would have to follow with Horus. And no one wants that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 10:10:39


 
   
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Worf effect. You know how star trek TNG fighter-type bad guys steamroll Worf despite him being some master warrior from a warrior race? It's a writing ploy to quickly convince the audience that the bad guy in question is a severe threat.

Sangy is made out to be the best overall primarch, with even Horus saying that he would've been the better choice for warmaster and Bobby wanting him to be the next emperor.

It's all set up that way so that when Chaos-Horus fights and easily beats him, you KNOW that he's insanely strong.

That being said the writing of overall-40k isn't exactly masterpiece writing. Some of the individual novelists are pro but the overarching plot could have been done by a high schooler. And the choice to resurrect a very relevant character and give him a model is most likely in the hands of those responsible for the macro-story, (and sales simultaneously,) not the ones who make some very good micro-stories.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 10:40:04


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 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:

IF GW were going to bring Sangunius back, at least tie it into the near-destruction of Baal and that the sheer number of blood angels dying created a Black Rage version of Sanguinius as
Spoiler:
It's revealed that Sanguinius can 'feel' the Black Rage as an unwoken warp entity/thing, kinda like the slumbering Ynnead. He realises that his death is set in stone, given that the ONE and ONE only future where he kills Horus and not dies ends up with the Imperium being even worse than the 40k state.Plus it was Tzeentch induced too, so blue bird of happiness shenanigans.

Is it explained why it would out that way?
   
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 niv-mizzet wrote:
Worf effect. You know how star trek TNG fighter-type bad guys steamroll Worf despite him being some master warrior from a warrior race? It's a writing ploy to quickly convince the audience that the bad guy in question is a severe threat.

Sangy is made out to be the best overall primarch, with even Horus saying that he would've been the better choice for warmaster and Bobby wanting him to be the next emperor.

It's all set up that way so that when Chaos-Horus fights and easily beats him, you KNOW that he's insanely strong.

That being said the writing of overall-40k isn't exactly masterpiece writing. Some of the individual novelists are pro but the overarching plot could have been done by a high schooler. And the choice to resurrect a very relevant character and give him a model is most likely in the hands of those responsible for the macro-story, (and sales simultaneously,) not the ones who make some very good micro-stories.


Even then, Sanguinius is sometimes said to have damaged Horus' armor, which provided the necessary weakness when Horus was most vulnerable that allowed the Emperor to extinguish the existence of Horus.

Edit: Beyond that, there are a few competing factors to consider when determining if Sanguinius is truly dead and GONE (i.e. as utterly annihilated as Horus after Big E stopped holding back) or just...

We know for a fact that the Emperor is capable of sheperding his son's souls after their deaths, as demonstrated in Master of Mankind. Dying, even by a daemon weapon (inhabited by, IIRC, a Greater Daemon capable of possessing a Primarch), wasn't enough to prevent the Emperor from keeping that Soulstuff protected from Chaos depredations.

We also know that, at minimum, Chaos-infused Horus was nothing less than a powerhouse of physical and warp might. The quality and nature of his attacks are likely at least a tier above the Laer blade in terms of the damage they could potentially do to body AND soul. Of course, Sanguinius isn't just any old Primarch (as if that could be said with a straight face... like comparing hanzo swords, or at least it should be), his resilience, stamina, fortitude, and paradoxical purity (pure in faith and spirit, impure by nature of a very visible mutation) seems like it would give him an edge in terms of "being drawn into the Emperor's protection" afterlife.

But that has to be reasonably discounted by the comparably different contexts of the EMPEROR HIMSELF at the times of their respective deaths. Ferrus perished while the Emperor was occupied with the Golden Throne and the access point to the Webway, certainly, and that could be a distracted Emperor. Nevertheless, I don't think that level of distraction comes anything close to that of an Emperor battling chaos daemons, mutated monstrosities, and god-knows-what-else in the process of storming his most trusted, most beloved son/tool in the act of his betrayal.

Frankly, I think there are strong arguments on each side, but the weight of the narrative is best served if Big E, Sanguinius, and Horus all stay as much on the sidelines as possible. Big E is fine as he exists currently (as a semi- or wholy-divine force of nature), but a balance is best maintained, and the return of either Horus OR Sanguinius makes either's sacrifice/death far less meaningful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/14 03:54:27


 
   
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greatbigtree wrote:Of all the Primarchs, none of the other chapters have "spill down" effects of their Primarch dying, unlike the Blood Angels and their Red Thirst / Death Company.


Some Night Lords experience crippling visions inherited from their primarch. Not directly from his death, but from his lifelong ability to foresee his death.

BaconCatBug wrote:Because Horus totally obliterated Sanguinius' soul in addition to his body.


You're thinking of the Emperor and Horus here. Big Sang was sprawled at Horus' feet when the Emperor arrived on the bridge.
   
 
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