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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

I haven't seen much discussion on Tau here.

I used to play against a Tau army semi-regularly in 3e/4e - with Guard, they were kind of a tough army. They could out-range me with almost every unit, and their weapons seemed perfectly devised to easily wound and completely ignore my armor (infantry AND vehicle, for the most part).

I spotted what looks like new Tau plastics at the FLGS - at least, the helmet looks different - and found myself wondering how they've held up in 8th. Good? Bad?

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Tau had a competitive list which featured Commanders - lots of commanders - and drones, with some support units behind them. Some people used crisis suits, some people used forgeworld Y'vharna, etc.

But as the codexes that don't suck - Imperial Guard, Eldar - have come out, you see Tau less and less on the table.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






For an index army they are strong. Just don't have a lot of variety. They have a lot of rules that make you scratch your head too. Like...The comanders reroll to hits aura only works for 1 turn - and everyone has to stay still to use it. The marker light system is pretty much worthless unless you hit with 5 marker lights (then it's pretty amazing.) Units have to chose between having more guns or more upgrades (uhh everyone just takes as many guns as they can).

the former best units in the army (in the game) are now the worst. Riptides are like 150 points overpriced. Storm surge pretty bad too. I feel like they are going to be amazing with a codex.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




And yet, riptides are still too cheap. If i never see another, it will be too soon.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Martel732 wrote:
And yet, riptides are still too cheap. If i never see another, it will be too soon.

Well without busted MC rules a properly pointed riptide wouldn't be so bad. The worst part about them was they were beast mode units for CC. I can't tell you how many victories mine had against thunderwolves. LOL. Now that non dedicated CC monsters suck without a weapon - im sure a riptide will also.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 21:17:12


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I'd prefer still to never see one ever again. Im sure i wont get my wish.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

Martel732 wrote:
And yet, riptides are still too cheap. If i never see another, it will be too soon.


Oh, I was pretty salty about riptides in 6h and 7th, but even I have to admit they have been nerfed and priced into nigh-uselessness.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




GW just ruined that model for me.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I totally can understand that. My riptides hurt a lot of people. They almost don't deserve to be good again.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




All the factions that has not received a codex are struggling when faced with codex opposition. This is true of Tau also.

Tau has been doing okay in tournaments because of the Commander build, but the rest of their index is pretty weak. If you take a 7th edition list to a game, you will get stomped. Very. Hard.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Well , not all.
Ynnari (before this FAQ) and GSC were doing pretty well, given that their "codex" rules were practically already in the index.


But unfortunatly, our tau are in a special place of being WAY deep down the power curve. most of our index is outright uplayable.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

 Xenomancers wrote:
For an index army they are strong. Just don't have a lot of variety. They have a lot of rules that make you scratch your head too. Like...The comanders reroll to hits aura only works for 1 turn - and everyone has to stay still to use it. The marker light system is pretty much worthless unless you hit with 5 marker lights (then it's pretty amazing.) Units have to chose between having more guns or more upgrades (uhh everyone just takes as many guns as they can).

the former best units in the army (in the game) are now the worst. Riptides are like 150 points overpriced. Storm surge pretty bad too. I feel like they are going to be amazing with a codex.


They needed a hard nerf after 7th edition.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Everything that was good in 7th edition was over-nerfed. Some things that were useless before like Vespids or Stealth Suits are now actually good, usable and balance.

The "competitive" list is Commander Spam+Drones and other units like the OP FW armour and crisis suits in small numbers.

Broadsides are like 270ppm equiped. They are very overpriced. But personally I have no problems with my Broadsides (I have 3. All the new model version) costing 200-280points each. But if they are gonna cost that, they should have the firepower to compensate.
They don't have that.
The same goes for Crisis Suits. I have no problems with them being 50ppm-80ppm based in equipement. They just need to be worth it.
Stealth Suits are totally worth it for 30ppm or 41ppm with special weapons.

Personally I prefer to pay more points for my units (That way is cheaper money-wise to have an army), but for them to be worth the points they cost.

So I don't think Riptide should be made cheaper. Just make it be worth what they cost.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






Well Tau are pretty freaking strong due to some units.

They complain about their riptides and broadsides not being 3+ bs, too expensive etc etc.. and not being able to add atleast 2x bs increse on their markerlights

But reality is, ALL Tau players ive ever met mainly pick their strongest options at all times, i actually know a single Tau player who sometimes tries to deviate from the classic waac mindset (and i applaud him for that, truely), but its hard for him.

So by all means GW, nerf them even further when their codex arrives. Make EVERYTHING equally "worthless". Keep riptide where it is, so we know who plays for fun and cool units, and who plays only for the win.

But i know GW will come to their aid, Tau have allways been their lovechild. So regardless of my saltyness, they will smile ear to ear when the codex arrives. Im sure of it. (well, some will probably still be sad about not being 2+ BS and markerlight not incresing overwatch BS etc.)







This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 22:53:35


6000 World Eaters/Khorne  
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






OP FW armour?
Do enlighten me. because our FW choices, from what I see, are laughable.

Broadsides costing 165 at the bare minimum is criminal, these things cost more than a predator with twinlas and heavy bolters, someone tell me how the two are remotely comparable.


I'll give you a quick count of what our current army looks like.

Commander and gun drones are pretty darn good.
Fire warriors, breachers, vespid, stealth suits, sunshark, coldstar, flamer crisis and weapon pathfinders are generally playable.
Everything else, is not. just not. broadsides, ghostkeels, riptide, any vehicle, markerlights in general-its all unplayable.


You know why us tau players are mostly WAAC and pick the strongest option at all times?
We got one option. everything else is so bad that taking it is shooting yourself in the leg.
When our hammerhead costs like a predator and does a third as much-and even the predator is considered unimpressive, you expect us to take a hammerhead?
When our broadside costs like a dreadnaut, shooting almost like a dreadnaut, but can't fight nearly as well nor can it take nearly as much firepower-why bother?
When a riptide costs close to an IK, yet cant even come close to it in shooting Or durability, let alone the melee-why bother?

Some goes for our entire army list.
Its either a rough gem that works by sheer number crunching efficiency-or it just can't compare to what other armies throw at us.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 22:58:06


can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Brutallica wrote:

So by all means GW, nerf them even further when their codex arrives. Make EVERYTHING equally "worthless". Keep riptide where it is, so we know who plays for fun and cool units, and who plays only for the win.


But only after GW erase Space Wolves as a stand-alone Codex and roll them back in Codex: Space Marines, with 0 special rules over other Space Marines. Then we know who plays them for aesthetics, and who plays only for the win


 BoomWolf wrote:
OP FW armour?
Do enlighten me. because our FW choices, from what I see, are laughable.

Broadsides costing 165 at the bare minimum is criminal, these things cost more than a predator with twinlas and heavy bolters, someone tell me how the two are remotely comparable.


I'll give you a quick count of what our current army looks like.

Commander and gun drones are pretty darn good.
Fire warriors, breachers, vespid, stealth suits, sunshark, coldstar, flamer crisis and weapon pathfinders are generally playable.
Everything else, is not. just not. broadsides, ghostkeels, riptide, any vehicle, markerlights in general-its all unplayable.


The Y'vharna. But I'll be honest I don't have that model and I have 0 FW models for my Tau. But reading his rules and what people have said, it seems pretty dam strong at a good price.
And I agree, Broadsides are very overpriced. But I have no problems with them costing that many points if they have good rules.
You know, I just don't want to have the Tyranid Warrior Sindrom where 3 models for 40€ are 20-30 points each.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 22:56:46


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




What about kroot? Are they totally useless?
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

pismakron wrote:
What about kroot? Are they totally useless?


The normal Kroots aren't very good. The Kroot Hounds are very usefull and good. Krootoxs... I don't have any, but they don't appear to be worth their points.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






 Galas wrote:
 Brutallica wrote:

So by all means GW, nerf them even further when their codex arrives. Make EVERYTHING equally "worthless". Keep riptide where it is, so we know who plays for fun and cool units, and who plays only for the win.


But only after GW erase Space Wolves as a stand-alone Codex and roll them back in Codex: Space Marines, with 0 special rules over other Space Marines. Then we know who plays them for aesthetics, and who plays only for the win

Yeah, because space wolves are winning crazy right now

6000 World Eaters/Khorne  
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I remember Space Wolves and their Barkstar being pretty damm awfull in 7th edition. Wulfen and Thunder Wolf Cavalry wasn't a sweet jesus child.

So by the logic that Tau 7th were OP so they should be made useless, Space Wolves should too. That was you premise.

But to be honest I just want to be able to play my movile-short range shooting-with auxiliares Tau force and not be called stupid because "Tanks?! Why you bring tanks instead of MOAR SUITS?!"

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






 Galas wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
OP FW armour?
Do enlighten me. because our FW choices, from what I see, are laughable.

Broadsides costing 165 at the bare minimum is criminal, these things cost more than a predator with twinlas and heavy bolters, someone tell me how the two are remotely comparable.


I'll give you a quick count of what our current army looks like.

Commander and gun drones are pretty darn good.
Fire warriors, breachers, vespid, stealth suits, sunshark, coldstar, flamer crisis and weapon pathfinders are generally playable.
Everything else, is not. just not. broadsides, ghostkeels, riptide, any vehicle, markerlights in general-its all unplayable.


The Y'vharna. But I'll be honest I don't have that model and I have 0 FW models for my Tau. But reading his rules and what people have said, it seems pretty dam strong at a good price.
And I agree, Broadsides are very overpriced. But I have no problems with them costing that many points if they have good rules.
You know, I just don't want to have the Tyranid Warrior Sindrom where 3 models for 40€ are 20-30 points each.


The Y'vharna...
That thing only looks so good because everything else pales in comparison. the Y'vharna butchers the riptide. but that's because the riptide is SO BAD.
Its still not a match to an IK, who are not really more expensive at that point.

I have FW models.
Got myself 4 tetras, who are unplayable even if the costed half of what they do.
Got R'alai, who is playable, but a regular commander would be better.
Got remoras, who were never more than janky fun, but now that we need to choose between a remora or TEN gun drones? easy choice for the swarm.

The FW hammerheads are so expensive its not even funny, and the cudda might look amazing, but it will bleed your points dry instantly with how extraorbit the point costs are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 23:11:34


can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Others have answered the threads question; Tau are... they have a few good models (Commanders, Drones), but the rest is overpriced and underpowered.

I'm not surprised at the amount of salt I'm seeing for previous editions - but I am surprised that people are unable to separate their emotions from their thoughts on balance.

"This unit was too strong in one edition, it should never be good again!"

Way to screw over everyone who plays that army, or happens to even like the model - you spout these kinds of words, but only as long as you aren't talking about your army...
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






 Galas wrote:
I remember Space Wolves and their Barkstar being pretty damm awfull in 7th edition. Wulfen and Thunder Wolf Cavalry wasn't a sweet jesus child.

So by the logic that Tau 7th were OP so they should be made useless, Space Wolves should too. That was you premise.

But to be honest I just want to be able to play my movile-short range shooting-with auxiliares Tau force and not be called stupid because "Tanks?! Why you bring tanks instead of MOAR SUITS?!"



BTW im not a tournament player, im just an average joe weekend TT gamer.

And yeah, Wulfen and Thunderwolf was disgusting in 7th, allthough not tournament winnng, Tau still kicked its ass back then.

Im sorry, but its abit fun to see almost all tau players who had a riptide wing and now its collecting dust. And ive seen Riptides and tau tanks work in 8th (ofc not guaranteed, not over the top victories, but none the less) and ive seen people concede to it. Maybe im just unlucky with my Tau opponents through time since 5th, and damn, you guys only go for the sure statistical fight. Sorry if im painting you with a broad brush here, but its my experince with Tau players never ever take a chance or go with a different style. Only what wins games. Is it a Tau thing or just an unlucky stigma?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/16 23:35:04


6000 World Eaters/Khorne  
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I don't know what to say. All the tournament players that I have seen where always playing to win.

The perception that all Tau, Space Marine, Necrons in their age or Eldar players play just with OP builds to always win is both deserved and undeserved. Not everybody play like that. But at the same time many people do. Why? Because people don't like to lose, and people don't like to take units that they know they are useless.

Whats the difference between Ork/Tyranid players and Tau players? That Tau had good options.
90% of the Tyranid players I saw playin in 7th where playing Flyrant spam. Why? Because it was the only viable build. And they aren't WAAC or something like that. But people normally gravitate towards things that work. So if a faction has more things that work, more people playing that faction is gonna use those options.

Normally when an army just sucks, people shelve it. Nobody here is a masochist, your love for your army can only give you so much before you stop playing it because it is useless.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






fe40k wrote:
Others have answered the threads question; Tau are... they have a few good models (Commanders, Drones), but the rest is overpriced and underpowered.

I'm not surprised at the amount of salt I'm seeing for previous editions - but I am surprised that people are unable to separate their emotions from their thoughts on balance.

"This unit was too strong in one edition, it should never be good again!"

Way to screw over everyone who plays that army, or happens to even like the model - you spout these kinds of words, but only as long as you aren't talking about your army...


Well said. I have an irrational hatred for all things craftworld and ynnari but I do not wish for Warp Spiders, Wraithknights, and Scatter Bikes to be nerfed into useless as its unfun for those who enjoy those models. Same thing for Riptide spam as I feel its horribly unfluffy (this whole giant mech direct GW is taking Tau is rather unfortunate but thats another topic) and Riptides of 7th did everything too well without enough proper weaknesses for the points cost. While i look down on Riptide spam lists as being unoriginal and a bit WAAC but the riptide should always have a valid spot in an Tau army just as much as Vespids, Kroot, Devilfish, Sniper Drones, and those ugly codex Flyers should be viable for Tau. Healthy game balance is good for everyone and that means the extremes of OP and UP units/wargear/rules/etc need to be reduced as much as possible without stepping on diversity and function (something GW has been and continues to be horribly bad at).

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Until tau suffer gk-level pennance, i will be firmly anti-tau.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





Index Tau currently is in a very similar spot to that of Tyranids in 7th, we're a mono build army in competitive play. Nids back in 7th could potentially compete with flyrant spam. The rest of their codex was hot garbage, but spamming flyrants gave them the ability to do fairly well in tournaments. Tau currently have one good build, and that is spamming Commanders and Gun Drones. Maybe throw in a Y'vahra to mix things up a bit. Outside of that, no, Tau cannot really compete.

If you're playing friendly games or just playing outside of tournaments, you can do fine. I'm having a ton of fun in 8th running mid-range Tau lists consisting of Breachers in Devilfish, Stealth Suits, and Ghostkeels. I'm not gonna win any tournaments with those kinda lists, but I do alright. I absolutely miss my old battlesuit heavy lists and Farsight Enclave lists from back in 6th and 7th (battlesuits are the reason I got into Tau in the first place), but it is fun to try out new styles of lists and hopefully Chapter Approved and our Codex can fix up our issues so we can be an all around good army again.

If you are looking to play more casually and just have fun with friends and such, Tau are fine. Gonna be a bit underpowered overall and you'll find that certain options just aren't worth taking right now (Sky Ray and Riptides come to mind), but you can certainly have fun with them if you enjoy them. If you're looking to play competitively and win tournaments, well, unless you have about 7 Commanders and a hundred Gun Drones laying around and want to play nothing but them all the time, you're gonna be outta luck until the Codex comes out.

Also, just as a friendly note, dakka generally isn't the best place to discuss anything Tau. You'd be better off using something like Advanced Tau Tactica if you wanted a more balanced and helpful discussing with less complaining and -posting.

Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)

Genestealer Cult 1228 points


849 points/ 15 SWC 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 GI_Redshirt wrote:
Index Tau currently is in a very similar spot to that of Tyranids in 7th, we're a mono build army in competitive play. Nids back in 7th could potentially compete with flyrant spam. The rest of their codex was hot garbage, but spamming flyrants gave them the ability to do fairly well in tournaments. Tau currently have one good build, and that is spamming Commanders and Gun Drones. Maybe throw in a Y'vahra to mix things up a bit. Outside of that, no, Tau cannot really compete.

If you're playing friendly games or just playing outside of tournaments, you can do fine. I'm having a ton of fun in 8th running mid-range Tau lists consisting of Breachers in Devilfish, Stealth Suits, and Ghostkeels. I'm not gonna win any tournaments with those kinda lists, but I do alright. I absolutely miss my old battlesuit heavy lists and Farsight Enclave lists from back in 6th and 7th (battlesuits are the reason I got into Tau in the first place), but it is fun to try out new styles of lists and hopefully Chapter Approved and our Codex can fix up our issues so we can be an all around good army again.

If you are looking to play more casually and just have fun with friends and such, Tau are fine. Gonna be a bit underpowered overall and you'll find that certain options just aren't worth taking right now (Sky Ray and Riptides come to mind), but you can certainly have fun with them if you enjoy them. If you're looking to play competitively and win tournaments, well, unless you have about 7 Commanders and a hundred Gun Drones laying around and want to play nothing but them all the time, you're gonna be outta luck until the Codex comes out.

Also, just as a friendly note, dakka generally isn't the best place to discuss anything Tau. You'd be better off using something like Advanced Tau Tactica if you wanted a more balanced and helpful discussing with less complaining and -posting.

Quoted for truth. Tau need to stick togeather. No fairness outside of Tau communities.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I think I should visit Advanced Tau Tactica more...

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Broadsides aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They are a little bit overpriced - probably could drop 30 points base. But when you have marker light support and or twinlinked from a commander. They just pick up models without much effort - killing tanks and infantry alike. Fire warriors are actually really good too.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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