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Hello!

I feel bad asking this, as it feels it should be obvious and easily google-able... But yet I am struggling.

Basically, can any of the AM leaders issue orders targeting themselves, as it stands in the 8e codex?

Results I've found online conflict each other, and I assume this is due to them not being clear about whether they are previous editions or using Index pre Codex. Some results say for instance Pask behaves differently to regular Tank Commanders and so forth, but I have the codex and their abilities are worded identically as far as I can tell!

My reading of the current rules is yes they can order themselves, as the ability says to target an AM Infantry/Russ unit within a range, and as established for aura abilities this wording usually applies to the unit with the rule. But yet I'm still left uncertain from my research, so would love the community to indulge me and give a definitive final answer:

Pask
Tank Commander
Creed
Company Commander
Platoon Commander

Can these units all order themselves? If none can or only some can, please help me understand why.

Thank you all for your time!

Index Pask was changed with a special snowflake ruling. AFAIK other commanders can order themselves since there isn't a no-character limit like tank orders.

We'll start easy.
Pask and Tank Commander: There are no inherent restrictions on who they can order other than having to be a LEMAN RUSS within 6" of the same <REGIMENT>. As such, Pask and TAnk Commanders fit their respective requirements.

Creed, Company Commander and Platoon Commander are a bit different. The very first sentence of Voice of Command refers to "soldiers under their command". If this is not part of the rule (i.e. fluff) then they would meet the requirements to give orders to themselves. If it is part of the rule, then you would have to establish a very clear chain of command, and things require more bookkeeping. Regardless of RAW or RAI, I would have no problem with it, just as I would have no problem with a junior officer ordering a senior officer.

That makes sense, thank you.

Sounds like the regular commanders need an FAQ for clarification there!

Kind of funny that Pask can be ordered by other Tank Commanders! But glad my reading seems correct, thank you!

Its ridiculous that Pask can order himself. He hits on 2+, and with order to himself he rerolls 1. Thats pretty much 100% hits, for a T8 W12 unit for 207 pts. Thats not just OP, its OP². Good thing he isnt catachan, otherwise he could reroll one dice used to determine the number of attacks made, which would be OP³.

p5freak wrote:
Its ridiculous that Pask can order himself. He hits on 2+, and with order to himself he rerolls 1. Thats pretty much 100% hits, for a T8 W12 unit for 207 pts. Thats not just OP, its OP². Good thing he isnt catachan, otherwise he could reroll one dice used to determine the number of attacks made, which would be OP³.

Well, as a Cadian he's rerolling the 1 anyway if he doesn't move, so not sure it's THAT op. It is strong though, sure. But I think that's just more the BS 2+ in itself than ordering himself.

p5freak wrote:
Its ridiculous that Pask can order himself. He hits on 2+, and with order to himself he rerolls 1. Thats pretty much 100% hits, for a T8 W12 unit for 207 pts. Thats not just OP, its OP². Good thing he isnt catachan, otherwise he could reroll one dice used to determine the number of attacks made, which would be OP³.

Except he can order himself and sit still, re-rolling 1's to hit and number of shots for turret weapons.

When you put it like that...

Honestly I don't see any reason a Cadian army would take a Leman Russ without taking Pask. He probably should have a points increase. 2+ BS is just amazing on a tank, and everything else is gravy.

Thing is having a single powerful model isn't ad gamebreaking at least he can't be spammed.

Stux wrote:
When you put it like that...

Honestly I don't see any reason a Cadian army would take a Leman Russ without taking Pask. He probably should have a points increase. 2+ BS is just amazing on a tank, and everything else is gravy.

Just kill it. At 2000 points it's not THAT hard to kill a LR. Most of the characters that really are too strong are too strong because they're not targetable at will, which makes them too strong even though they're unique.
And remember, kids, Take Cover doesn't work on vehicles anymore!

Vehicle Characters would be easier to kill than infantry characters, though - you best bet that's where I'm sending my Thunderbolt to bypass that little bubble wrap issue.

Speaking of which, Characters are no longer optional now, are they? It used to be that you had to agree to their use.

M.

 Infantryman wrote:
Vehicle Characters would be easier to kill than infantry characters, though - you best bet that's where I'm sending my Thunderbolt to bypass that little bubble wrap issue.

Speaking of which, Characters are no longer optional now, are they? It used to be that you had to agree to their use.

M.

Special characters havent required your opponents permission for a few editions now.

 Infantryman wrote:
Vehicle Characters would be easier to kill than infantry characters, though - you best bet that's where I'm sending my Thunderbolt to bypass that little bubble wrap issue.

Speaking of which, Characters are no longer optional now, are they? It used to be that you had to agree to their use.

M.

Literally everything is with opponents permission. That's why they removed the useless reminder after 3rd.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Infantryman wrote:
Vehicle Characters would be easier to kill than infantry characters, though - you best bet that's where I'm sending my Thunderbolt to bypass that little bubble wrap issue.

Speaking of which, Characters are no longer optional now, are they? It used to be that you had to agree to their use.

M.

Literally everything is with opponents permission. That's why they removed the useless reminder after 3rd.

Sure, my opponent can just walk away. That's really helpful.

nekooni wrote:

Just kill it. At 2000 points it's not THAT hard to kill a LR. Most of the characters that really are too strong are too strong because they're not targetable at will, which makes them too strong even though they're unique.
And remember, kids, Take Cover doesn't work on vehicles anymore!

So, he is easy to kill ? If i play Pask i put him in cover, i will cast -1 to hit or +1 to saving throws on him, and i will have a techpriest nearby to repair him. And i will use the jury rigging stratagem on him to add one lost wound. Good luck trying to kill him.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Infantryman wrote:
Vehicle Characters would be easier to kill than infantry characters, though - you best bet that's where I'm sending my Thunderbolt to bypass that little bubble wrap issue.

Speaking of which, Characters are no longer optional now, are they? It used to be that you had to agree to their use.

M.

Special characters havent required your opponents permission for a few editions now.

I haven't thrown dice for the Emperor since 4th

M.

p5freak wrote:

nekooni wrote:

Just kill it. At 2000 points it's not THAT hard to kill a LR. Most of the characters that really are too strong are too strong because they're not targetable at will, which makes them too strong even though they're unique.
And remember, kids, Take Cover doesn't work on vehicles anymore!

So, he is easy to kill ? If i play Pask i put him in cover, i will cast -1 to hit or +1 to saving throws on him, and i will have a techpriest nearby to repair him. And i will use the jury rigging stratagem on him to add one lost wound. Good luck trying to kill him.

I play Imperial Guard, too. I'm not saying it's "easy", I'm saying it's "not THAT hard". Sure, you can stack stuff on him, but then it's again just one unit, and it's not a force multiplier like eg Robby. and you're putting a lot of resources into that one unit , making it what, 70-80 points more while spending a CP a turn? I'm not saying it's easy to kill him or that he's bad in any way, I'm just saying I don't feel like he's super-hard to kill or needs adjustment. I'd rather have GW go over LR as a whole again, because having Tank Commanders with just one order which they almost always spend on themself is pretty bad design.

Even with 70-80 pts. to support him, he is still cheap for the damage output he can do. I think its pretty hard to kill him.

p5freak wrote:
Its ridiculous that Pask can order himself. He hits on 2+, and with order to himself he rerolls 1. Thats pretty much 100% hits, for a T8 W12 unit for 207 pts. Thats not just OP, its OP². Good thing he isnt catachan, otherwise he could reroll one dice used to determine the number of attacks made, which would be OP³.

No more ridiculous than Marine Captain Auras effecting themselves.

Orders are the Guard version of Auras.

 argonak wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Its ridiculous that Pask can order himself. He hits on 2+, and with order to himself he rerolls 1. Thats pretty much 100% hits, for a T8 W12 unit for 207 pts. Thats not just OP, its OP². Good thing he isnt catachan, otherwise he could reroll one dice used to determine the number of attacks made, which would be OP³.

No more ridiculous than Marine Captain Auras effecting themselves.

Orders are the Guard version of Auras.

Marines dont have a T8 W12 vehicle which has 100% auto hits at 2D6 72" S8 AP-2 for 207 pts. He doesnt even need to order himself, cadians regiment ability does that for him. The closest marine thing would be Sgt. chronus in a predator with autocannon, twin heavy bolters and a captain giving him reroll 1s. But thats 271 pts. and only T7 W11, only 2D3 shots, only 48" S7 AP-1.