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Just wanted to get community consensus on this!

Escher gang lists lasguns as 5 points (trading post is 15). The trading post says gangs can gave stuff cheaper but 5 points seems too cheap and the full stops before it (Escher list) suggest misprint to me. Does anyone else agree?

Not to mention stats for sawn off shotguns and bolt pistols with no way of buying them.

IIRC last time around you could take stuff off people you captured and use it yourself, so maybe the stats are for that. Alternatively bounty hunters often had bolt pistoke, so there are several reasons why you need the stat's even if you can't necessarily buy the things from the trading post.

Pretty sure the 5 pts is intentional. Consider that the rulebook price for them is 10, it wouldve been 0 or 1 if theyd mistyped. Its also noteworthy that autoguns are pretty damn great, comparatively, so its still a tough choice, even at their ridiculously low price...

GW reps have said that the price is deliberate.

T

I think it might be intentional. I mean, stats wise the lasgun is just a stubgun with longer range and a better ammo check, which ultimately doesn't really matter as it passes reload checks automatically anyway.

An autogun is more dangerous, surprisingly enough, as it has the rapid fire rule.

I don't know why the lasgun doesn't have that rule, as lasguns are supposed to have a full auto mode as well. Maybe that's just for some military pattern lasguns, and the ones you find on hive worlds are semi-auto only or something.

Urafado wrote:
Just wanted to get community consensus on this!

Escher gang lists lasguns as 5 points (trading post is 15). The trading post says gangs can gave stuff cheaper but 5 points seems too cheap and the full stops before it (Escher list) suggest misprint to me. Does anyone else agree?

Not to mention stats for sawn off shotguns and bolt pistols with no way of buying them.

What you have discovered are tiny fractions of the complete mess the new Necromunda rules are. There are other threads that go more into detail about this. I think you are correct in that Lasgun and Laspistol have swapped prices. Most likely we'll see a correction either in form of a FAQ, or in form of a 3rd price list to replace the 2 first versions.

You are also correct in that the sawn off shotgun does not have a price, this is also a bug from GW. Either it shouldn't have been included (because of their no model = no rule policy) or it should have been given a price. You will however see a price for it in Gang War 2, which will be 10 credits for Orlocks. It is unknown whether we'll see any price for it in the Trading Post or other house specific prices.

Bolt Pistol currently has a Trading Post price of 25 (according to the Gangs of Legends pdf), but it's unknown whether this price will be official in future FAQ/Gang War, change or only be gang specific. I think it's most likely we will see it at the Trading Post in addition to the houses, but maybe not with the price given in the pdf.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flinty wrote:
IIRC last time around you could take stuff off people you captured and use it yourself, so maybe the stats are for that. Alternatively bounty hunters often had bolt pistoke, so there are several reasons why you need the stat's even if you can't necessarily buy the things from the trading post.

I think it's opposite. You can never capture a Bounty Hunter, they don't receive any lasting injuries (according to Gang War 2). I don't see any reason you have stats for a weapon without a price. Even if you managed to capture a fighter with a bolt pistol before it is given a price, when you add a weapon to a fighter, you also add its price to that fighter. If you're adding weapons but not the price, you are cheating your opponent with your gang rating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyr13 wrote:
Pretty sure the 5 pts is intentional. Consider that the rulebook price for them is 10, it wouldve been 0 or 1 if theyd mistyped. Its also noteworthy that autoguns are pretty damn great, comparatively, so its still a tough choice, even at their ridiculously low price...

If they mistyped, yes. If they swapped it, it would be as it is written. The costs in the rulebook isn't even listed in categories, so I find it very likely they messed this up when comparing to all the other mistakes that are made so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

timd wrote:
GW reps have said that the price is deliberate.

T

Where was this said?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I think it might be intentional. I mean, stats wise the lasgun is just a stubgun with longer range and a better ammo check, which ultimately doesn't really matter as it passes reload checks automatically anyway.

An autogun is more dangerous, surprisingly enough, as it has the rapid fire rule.

I don't know why the lasgun doesn't have that rule, as lasguns are supposed to have a full auto mode as well. Maybe that's just for some military pattern lasguns, and the ones you find on hive worlds are semi-auto only or something.

The autogun still has the same price as a lasgun in the Trading Post, so if one is more dangerous, the other has some other advantage for GW to give them that identical price. Unless they made another mistake here.

I would think many of the weapons can have full auto mode without the rapid fire rule. I always imagined the rules to represent more of a fire rate ability, not single shot vs fully automatic.

The trade off is that the lasgun has longer short range, and as such benefits from the short range accuracy bonus at longer ranges, and also the lasgun will like, never require ammo checks.

The autogun is certainly deadlier, but it's not quite at accurate and is more likely to run out of ammo.

Lasguns are probably the closest thing we have to a sniper rifle / sharpshooter's rifle right now.

The guns abilities should balance one another: Versatility vs reliability vs firepower (ie. Shotgun vs Lasgun vs Autogun).

Pricing the Lasgun at 5 points just makes taking other guns a liability. I can't justify taking an Autogunner in my Eschers other than I like the model. Taking 2 Laspistols is more expensive than taking 3 Lasguns, which is silly.

You end up with a bunch of gangers all armed with Lasguns because everything else is too expensive, and you can't buy fething swords or stub guns until after your first game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The guns abilities should balance one another: Versatility vs reliability vs firepower (ie. Shotgun vs Lasgun vs Autogun).

Pricing the Lasgun at 5 points just makes taking other guns a liability. I can't justify taking an Autogunner in my Eschers other than I like the model. Taking 2 Laspistols is more expensive than taking 3 Lasguns, which is silly.

You end up with a bunch of gangers all armed with Lasguns because everything else is too expensive, and you can't buy fething swords or stub guns until after your first game.

I think that just your personal prefrence here. I've play about 20 games, but still no proper campagin yet, and Autoguns and twin auto pistols are my favorite weapons for Escher. More to the point of gear change, you can actually buy new weapons and gear, in Gang Wars, you are allowed to create separate fighter cards with new gear, but must keep the old card as well (this comes into play in some mission types with random selection).

Honestly i think the pricing on lasguns for eschger was intentional because autoguns are simply the superior weapon by far. The extra +1 to hit and better ammo roll is ofset by autoguns being rapid fire and stil being decently ranged and for ammo.

Baxx wrote:

timd wrote:
GW reps have said that the price is deliberate.

T

Where was this said?

Interview with Andy Hoare or the other guy IIRC. Each house gets an item or two for cheap.

T

 King Amroth wrote:
Honestly i think the pricing on lasguns for eschger was intentional because autoguns are simply the superior weapon by far. The extra +1 to hit and better ammo roll is ofset by autoguns being rapid fire and stil being decently ranged and for ammo.

So why do the two cost the same for everyone else?

 Tsol wrote:
More to the point of gear change, you can actually buy new weapons and gear, in Gang Wars, you are allowed to create separate fighter cards with new gear, but must keep the old card as well (this comes into play in some mission types with random selection).

Don't have my book on me at the moment, but I'm reasonably certain that only applies to non-gangers doesn't it?

timd wrote:

Interview with Andy Hoare or the other guy IIRC. Each house gets an item or two for cheap.
T

That gives no indication if the prices are swapped or not.

Escher Lasgun 10 credits and Escher Laspistol 5 credits would still be two items for cheap. If you swap it, only one item is cheaper.

I think it's quite obvious this is an mistake. No way a lasgun is cheaper than a Laspistol, and Escher Laspistol is 10 credits just like for any other gang?

Andy Hoare saying some weapons are cheaper for some houses give no help in this case.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Honestly i think the pricing on lasguns for eschger was intentional because autoguns are simply the superior weapon by far. The extra +1 to hit and better ammo roll is ofset by autoguns being rapid fire and stil being decently ranged and for ammo.

So why do the two cost the same for everyone else?

Story wise, Escher produces Lasguns for the local imperial guard.

Thats why its one of their cheaper items.

Costs of things depends on supply and demand. Every guardsmen needs a lasgun. Not every guardsmen needs a Las pistol. Therefore more lasguns will be produced than laspistols. And if you're the house making all the lasguns it would be easier to get them than laspistols. I don't see las weapons being produced by individuals in the underhive from raw materials in the same way that auto weapons can be so it's conceivable that the current points values are correct. Only time will tell of course.

 Flinty wrote:
Costs of things depends on supply and demand. Every guardsmen needs a lasgun. Not every guardsmen needs a Las pistol. Therefore more lasguns will be produced than laspistols. And if you're the house making all the lasguns it would be easier to get them than laspistols. I don't see las weapons being produced by individuals in the underhive from raw materials in the same way that auto weapons can be so it's conceivable that the current points values are correct. Only time will tell of course.

If you take that fluff into account, it's even stronger indication the prices are wrong (swapped).

If all the guardsmen need lasguns, but few of them needs laspistols, Escher should have a surplus of Laspistols, not lasguns.

From a general rule of thumb in Necromunda, guns always cost more than pistols. If Escher are supposed to have cheaper las weapons, how come escher lasgun is 33% of the price while laspistol is 100% full price?

It's obviously a mistake and will be corrected in a FAQ (hopefully the first). The intent seems to be both weapons should cost 5 credits less than normal for escher.

I've seen Necromunda compendiums authored by fans include the correction already.

It's an indication that lasguns will be made in greater numbers and therefore an easier supply to steal from for the house making them. It may well be that the prices are not what was intended, but it is still feasible that they are correct. The use of house rules by different groups is fine and all but it has nothing to do with the game designers original intention.

Baxx wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I think it might be intentional. I mean, stats wise the lasgun is just a stubgun with longer range and a better ammo check, which ultimately doesn't really matter as it passes reload checks automatically anyway.

An autogun is more dangerous, surprisingly enough, as it has the rapid fire rule.

I don't know why the lasgun doesn't have that rule, as lasguns are supposed to have a full auto mode as well. Maybe that's just for some military pattern lasguns, and the ones you find on hive worlds are semi-auto only or something.

The autogun still has the same price as a lasgun in the Trading Post, so if one is more dangerous, the other has some other advantage for GW to give them that identical price. Unless they made another mistake here.

I would think many of the weapons can have full auto mode without the rapid fire rule. I always imagined the rules to represent more of a fire rate ability, not single shot vs fully automatic.

Further to this, the full auto mode on lasguns is actually pretty slow. I'm trying to remember where I saw this, but it is only around 60 shots per minute. Most automatic weapons have a much higher fire rate. So the auto mode on a lasgun is actually still pretty low, which makes it very easy to control and aim (especially when coupled with the lack of recoil, and no need to worry about bullet drop or leading moving targets).

Wow, yeah, 60 rounds a minute is super slow for full auto.

In comparison, an M-16 is about 700 rounds per minute for sustained fire. 60 rounds a minute is semi-auto.

I don't see why it's so important to some to rationalize every GW typo as part of some clever plan or in-universe narrative. Bad editing is just bad editing.

But it's not a typo or bad editing, Escher Lasguns are suppose to be that cheap

Urafado wrote:
Just wanted to get community consensus on this!

Escher gang lists lasguns as 5 points (trading post is 15). The trading post says gangs can gave stuff cheaper but 5 points seems too cheap and the full stops before it (Escher list) suggest misprint to me. Does anyone else agree?

Not to mention stats for sawn off shotguns and bolt pistols with no way of buying them.

It is because they are a close combat monster. leaning toward CNBC weaponry. You want a couple with optics, and extra shots, other then that look for close combat weapons and bonuses.

The new Eshers are better, but are susceptible for pinning, when the new Van Sarr's show up. Just saying.

 Rolsheen wrote:
But it's not a typo or bad editing, Escher Lasguns are suppose to be that cheap

How do you know this? It's obviously an error where the prices got swapped when copied from Underhive book (no weapon categories there).

Baxx wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
But it's not a typo or bad editing, Escher Lasguns are suppose to be that cheap

How do you know this? It's obviously an error where the prices got swapped when copied from Underhive book (no weapon categories there).

It was confirmed by one of the developers in a livestream.

Baxx wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
But it's not a typo or bad editing, Escher Lasguns are suppose to be that cheap

How do you know this? It's obviously an error where the prices got swapped when copied from Underhive book (no weapon categories there).

How do you know it is obvious? This is not an argument, it is presenting your gut feeling as one. The truth is we don't actually know, and there are two valid theories. Neither is directly supported or refuted by the live stream, from what was posted in this thread.

Trafalgar Law wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
But it's not a typo or bad editing, Escher Lasguns are suppose to be that cheap

How do you know this? It's obviously an error where the prices got swapped when copied from Underhive book (no weapon categories there).

It was confirmed by one of the developers in a livestream.

Check out the previous discussion for source of this:

timd wrote:

Baxx wrote:

timd wrote:
GW reps have said that the price is deliberate.

T

Where was this said?

Interview with Andy Hoare or the other guy IIRC. Each house gets an item or two for cheap.

T

I ask the same question, timd says Andy Hoar confirmed the price was deliberate. However, Andy Hoare said no such thing.
Now I ask you, and you say some livestream said it was deliberate.
What livestream was this that said escher Lasgun is 5 credits and escher laspistol was 10 credits?

I ask you, because saying such a thing makes no sense to me.

 Haighus wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
But it's not a typo or bad editing, Escher Lasguns are suppose to be that cheap

How do you know this? It's obviously an error where the prices got swapped when copied from Underhive book (no weapon categories there).

How do you know it is obvious? This is not an argument, it is presenting your gut feeling as one. The truth is we don't actually know, and there are two valid theories. Neither is directly supported or refuted by the live stream, from what was posted in this thread.

It's obvious because of these 'gut feelings':

1) General rule of thumb in Necromunda is and always has been that pistols cost less than guns
2) The original price in rulebook was 5 for pistol and 10 for gun
3) The escher weapon list was not categorized by weapon type, making it much easier to swap the prices
4) If the prices are swapped, it seems very likely that the intent was for las pistol and gun to be 5 credits cheaper than standard.

The rulebook is full of mistakes. This is obviously one of them.

In fact, it is so obvious, I'm willing to bet my signature and title on it, using "I was wrong about Necromunda" for both in case this is not mentioned in the 1st or 2nd FAQ. You wanna bet with me?

Baxx wrote:

It's obvious because of these 'gut feelings':

1) General rule of thumb in Necromunda is and always has been that pistols cost less than guns
2) The original price in rulebook was 5 for pistol and 10 for gun
3) The escher weapon list was not categorized by weapon type, making it much easier to swap the prices
4) If the prices are swapped, it seems very likely that the intent was for las pistol and gun to be 5 credits cheaper than standard.

The rulebook is full of mistakes. This is obviously one of them.

In fact, it is so obvious, I'm willing to bet my signature and title on it, using "I was wrong about Necromunda" for both in case this is not mentioned in the 1st or 2nd FAQ. You wanna bet with me?

However, based on the info we have, it is also equally possible that only one weapon was meant to be cheaper, because the whole point of these cheaper weapons is that they are exceptions. If this is the case, then 5pts for lasguns could be intentional. You can make that bet if you want, but I don't have a horse in the race- I feel it could go either way based upon the available info.

I apologise for appearing combative earlier, I was somewhat stressed on an overdue lunch break after a very busy couple of hours. I would've been better off waiting before posting.

Either Andy said it or didn't say it. You can't both be right. Is there a link to the livestream? A transcript?

One of you present evidence.

Otherwise you're just arguing past one another.

Here's a plan so cunning you stick a tail on it....

Why doesn't someone just ask Games Workshop.

I mean, I know it's a teeny bit of effort, but then we'd have an answer.