Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I had a game of Triumph and treachury with 3 players yesterday at 2000 pts.

The rules look like fun but have big holes in it, to the point where it really broke the fun in our game.1 so I post what I would adapt, so that others might be spared from the bad experience we had:

1: Delete the alliance (The one that obligates your opponent to pick another enemy for the phase) treachury ability from the game. It looks like fun but isn't. It usually just makes sure that a player looses a turn. (not being able to shoot, or attack your opponent in melee was game breaking in our game, my chaos horde was not allowed to charge for 2 turns, tk and seraphon players only got to shoot 2 times over 5 turns).

2: Throw a 5 and get a treachury point when you are neutral in a phase: That was way to much, I cannot imagine how many treachery pts would role in a game of 6 players. I would change it to throw if your were neutral an entire players turn.

3: Only one treachery act per phase per player. Maximum one time the same treachery act per phase no matter from which player it originates...

4: Secret objectives: Score max 1 per turn We had one player scoring 3 of them turn one. He was the first to go. He had 19VP after turn one. We never recovered from that. On the other hand you could have one that is impossible to score...

You have to roll a 4+ to use a treachery rule. So you spend the points and you might not get anything.

When playing triumph and treachery, all notions of competitive play and things "being fair" should be shown out the door.

T&T is about having fun with a few of your friends and rolling dice. Its by far and large not anything near competitive matched play.

 auticus wrote:
You have to roll a 4+ to use a treachery rule. So you spend the points and you might not get anything.

When playing triumph and treachery, all notions of competitive play and things "being fair" should be shown out the door.

T&T is about having fun with a few of your friends and rolling dice. Its by far and large not anything near competitive matched play.

You can use 1 or 2 additional TP to improve the result by +1/+2. 2+ and you can't attack/charge/shoot the enemy you wanted sucks.

I agree with OP, while it can be fun, some stuff is ridiculous annoying while other stuff works pretty good.
We played without the secret objectives and VP wise it was pretty balanced.
But we had whole turns doing... nothing. I would remove the denying to be picked as an enemy entirely. It's fun at first but god, it gets annoying fast.

Hmm, that stuff is good to know.

Wish Bottle was here to incorporate that info into something for Hinterlands. :(

I like denying someone the ability to attack.

However I prefer the older T&T ... the one with the card deck. Because you had to draw that card to have it to use. Not just get to use it whenever you want.

And thats how I also play T&T in our campaign events.

Come on T&T ShadeSpire set!

 auticus wrote:
You have to roll a 4+ to use a treachery rule. So you spend the points and you might not get anything.

When playing triumph and treachery, all notions of competitive play and things "being fair" should be shown out the door.

T&T is about having fun with a few of your friends and rolling dice. Its by far and large not anything near competitive matched play.

We were not looking for matched/or fair play, just for a brutal end battle for our campaign. It was just 3 armies had 80% of there forces left by the end of turn 5 because of that stupid treachery "alliance". It was really boring and did not feel like a worthy end of a narrative map campaign that had been going on for few months.
If you play rules as is, I would really recommend scrapping that alliance ability.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 auticus wrote:
I like denying someone the ability to attack.

However I prefer the older T&T ... the one with the card deck. Because you had to draw that card to have it to use. Not just get to use it whenever you want.

And thats how I also play T&T in our campaign events.

Well I do not have those cards and have never played the old one.. How do they work? Perhaps I can make them (or something like them) myself...

Instead of rolling dice you would draw from a deck of cards. The cards told you what you could do.

So stopping your enemy from attacking was one thing you could do, but it only existed maybe twice in the entire deck so you had to have it drawn.