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2017/11/26 21:17:22
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
It is clear that the Imperium is, by and large, neo-feudal.
One of the hallmarks of Feudal governance was infighting between nobility who nominally served the same king. Scale ranged. Half the point of most of the Crusades was to reduce their ability to do exactly this.
How well does the Imperium handle infighting between loyal systems? Say, inter-noble rivalry over some point of honor or even new territory?
Do we know anything from the fluff about how much can be gotten away with? Would the Imperium ever really know?
Especially within a single planet it seems to be very common, reference knight households and the trade wars between vannickhive and vervunhive in Necropolis. For interstellar conflict, old background involved the space wolves capturing an off world gem mine from dark angels.
It seems like in normal political conflicts, the Imperium declares that whichever side wins was righteous in the eyes of the Imperium, and if the losing side still exists they are considered to be correcting their mistakes, likely by paying a penalty to the Imperium as well as giving up territory to the victors.
2017/11/26 22:45:29
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
Does the Imperial Governor (or Governors for interstellar tussles) continue to pay the tithe on time? Then the conflict is a minor pecadillo. If not then the Inquisition us likely to make an appearance and settle the matter. Exactly how terminal the solution is for the Governors in question will depend on factors like hiw much the tithe has been missed, how much of a lesson is needed for their successor/other nearby systems and how homicidal the particular Inquisitor is. I would say it's a big gamble to take!
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
The previous posters have it pretty well pegged, I'd say. As long as the conflict doesn't disturb the tithe or otherwise cause a great inconvenience for the IoM it's ignored.
The losing side might also be the first to be punished if they miss the tithe or some other obligation - it's their duty to serve and if they allowed themself to be stopped then obviously they didn't take their duty seriously enough!
2017/11/27 06:37:32
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
Also note that in the case of two star systems, there is a second limiting factor - whilst a planetary governor is permitted - in fact required - to raise an army (PDF) and fleet (SDF) he or she is technically not allowed to maintain warp-capable military vessels (no-one would complain about the ruling dynasty having a private transport vessel of their own if they could afford it, but a destroyer squadron is right out). That means that any spat between systems requires you to persuade someone with such a ship (Rogue trader, sanctioned mercenary company, successful chartist captain, inquisitor, etc) that you have just cause.
Or, you know, lots of money.
But yeah, as long as the business of the imperium is unaffected (tithe still flows, no adeptus terra holdings are damaged, third party merchants pass unimpeded through the conflict zone), the imperium as a whole doesn't care.
When one side manages to successfully solicit imperial intervention, things usually end fast because no-one wants to risk being thd bad guy in the eyes on lex imperialis.
It's when both parties secure outside imperial intervention simultaneously that everything goes to deep doo-doo. That's one of the flashpoints which kicked off the badab war...
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2017/11/27 07:15:14
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
Roger roger - I am attempting to have my IG army's home system engaged in a rivalry with another Imperial system over control of a planet in a third (and basically uninhabited) system. They both want resources on it, so they've clashed a bit over it. Sounds like that's fine, since for both it would be a colonial effort and not really have involved anything that would interrupt the tithe. I did not know that about Warp-capable ships, though - I suppose that would further limit the scale of operations.
One of the oldest stories about the Imperial Guard is this one about imperial infighting, from WD 109
Spoiler:
Captain Worlak grunted with satisfaction as the gates of the fortress were blown to atoms and J Company advanced on the Traitor's position. Horren's assault platoon gunned their jump packs and flew forward into the gateway. It would all be over soon.
Worlak rubbed one band over his stubbled chin, automatically tracing the zigzag scars that were the mark of a Warrior of the Kratch. He bad feared that his 42nd Vorgarn would be assigned to some other duties because they were raised from the same homeworld as the traitor 38th, and had made sure that his superiors knew of the hereditary blood-feud between the Kratch of the 42nd and the Tarsh of the 38th. He had written long dispatches pleading for the duty of stamping the 38th out - to eradicate this stain upon the honour of the homeworld, to make a centuries-old cultural enmity serve the Imperial cause, and as many other arguments as be could muster
He did not, of course, mention his strongest reason - that the traitors of the 38th were led by Tarsh Mardik. Cultural enmities between units were accepted as natural, but personal vendettas between commanders could interfere with judgement, and were sternly discouraged.
A huge explosion announced that the citadel was taken, and Worlak burled his jetcycle up and forward, puncbing the comm into life as be did so. He had to find out.
"Horren. What news?"
"We have the command bunker, Captain."
"And?"
"We have saved the one you wish."
"Good. You will be rewarded."
"We are rewarded already, Captain trezny." Horren used the Kratch word for a leader of warriors, with the highest honorific suffix. The Imperium was all but forgotten - this was a Vorgarn affair, and Horren was a Kratch warrior who was very happy with his leadership. The screams which could be beard in the background bore out his words.
Worlak strode into the wreckage of the command centre to find the traitor commander chained up, away from the bodies of his men. He paled visibly as Worlak took off his visored helmet, revealing the empty socket of his right eye.
"You!"
"Yes, Tarsb Mardik. Me." He stripped off his uniform jacket, and at his signal one of his men unchained the captive. The others bad begun to spread out into a loose circle around the two.
"It's been a long time, eh, Mardik?" Worlen drew the silver handled Kratch bunting knife from his boot. "What must it be - twenty-five years, Terra standard? I expect you'll almost have forgotten by now. But I never forgot. I have this empty socket to remind me." He dropped the knife on the floor of the bunker and backed away until the knife was exactly halfway between the two of them.
"You owe me an eye, Tarsh Mardik. And I've come to collect."
Simultaneously, the two men lunged forward for the knife.
At any rate, it should be easy for the Imperial Commander (governor) of at least one if not both of your worlds to make sure that the munitorum assigns units from his tithed regiments to be in charge of conquering world #3. If only one of them does this, the other one may have other means to send troops like a rogue trader house or illegal warp vessels.
2017/11/27 08:34:51
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
They're still there - albeit in the "counts-as" rules at the back of Epic Armageddon. Fast-moving, scouts, half-decent in a short-range firefight and likely to get kicked to death by Assault Marines or Stormboyz.
Jump packs, paired laspistols and grenades; the trick is to get close to the enemy but not actually into combat (unless the enemy is Tau).
2017/11/27 14:14:53
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
Infantryman wrote: ...aw man, why can't we have jetcycles and jump-pack assault troops :(
M.
I'd buy jump pack troops in a heatbeat. Anything to get some better Fast Attacks into my list
Me too! I know a few people who converted some and used them as "Rough Riders" - not sure how they did the Lance, though.
AndrewGPaul wrote:They're still there - albeit in the "counts-as" rules at the back of Epic Armageddon. Fast-moving, scouts, half-decent in a short-range firefight and likely to get kicked to death by Assault Marines or Stormboyz.
Jump packs, paired laspistols and grenades; the trick is to get close to the enemy but not actually into combat (unless the enemy is Tau).
Guard finally has some sort-of-decent melee troops in those "crusaders", so as an upgrade to them it would be alright. I never did Epic (I had the 40k Armageddon book but nothing in there).
Again, for a force that's supposed to be thousands and thousands of worlds different...we have not a whole lot of options.
So I actually have to write this fluff all the time (which reminds me to go read yours.. brb!)...
...
...
.... now that that's done - I think Imperial Infighting is generally handled by letting it peter out. If it's a horrible, awful conflict, then they may intervene by sending overwhelming power (Badab War) but generally, they tend to let little conflicts flare up, both sides exhaust eachother, and then they peter out.
This has bit them in the ass, though, before - things like Goge Vandire and the infighting between the Administratum and the Ministorum got so epic that the Ministorum essentially did a coup d' etat. So...
2017/11/27 17:44:48
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
Guard jump troops wear a kind of light power armor so that they don't break their legs.
If thr models don't have a lot of tribal tattoos and machetes, and vostroyan or skitarii steampunk accessories then they could turn out to look like light space marines.
It's too bad that the "imperial guard" line doesn't consist of vostroyan snipers for snipers, catachans for the heavy weapons teams, and iron striders instead of sentinels, and infantry platoons by Victoria minis all in one single army.
2017/11/28 13:28:43
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
In one of the Flesh Tearers books, Trial By Blood, two planets in a system with a long running rivalry apart a war and a mixed force from, a few different chapters with IG support go to crush the two planets and bring them back to the Imperial fold.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
2017/11/28 15:17:40
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
In essence it depends on which factions are involved. I'd say 90% of the Imperium are either hive worlds or colonies dedicated to mining, agriculture, training of men, manufacturing etc etc. These worlds are directly under the rule of the administratum and could more simply be known as the worlds which possess Imperial Governors as their political leaders. For planets such as these internal disputes between planetary or even interplanetary factions is resolved through whatever method necessary as long as it does not affect their tithe and the planet does not become a nest for chaos worshippers.
If these are worlds under control of the Imperial Faith or Mechanicum then any such power struggle is handled by an organization.
Space Marines solve their disputes through honour duels while inquisitorial sects wage secret wars against one another.
If two opposing factions clash from different Imperial organisations than the situation becomes more complicated.
The first thing that comes into play is the influence of each faction, than their standing within the effected area and finally any legitimacy to either claims.
If such a dispute spirals out of control than the high lords of terra will intervene.
I also made a video recently about the imperium that might help, just go forward to the final part of the video that speaks about the cultural sphere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EriIsL3t3tA&t=1s
Hope all of this helps.
2017/11/28 16:07:34
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
I don't think the larger Imperium really can do anything about it. The Imperium is heavily decentralised, so if a planetary governor doesn't see the need to intervene (or is involved in the fighting himself) finding anyone who: 1. Knows about the infighting (information and communication in the Imperium are quite simply horrible) 2. Has the authority to intervene 3. Has the means to intervene 4. Cares enough to intervene should be pretty much impossible unless the planet is about to be hit by a Chaos/Xenos invasion and unity is required to fight against the invader or unless someone stops paying tithes. It gets even more fun when you get conflicts on a higher level, not just on a planet between noble houses but between whole Imperial organisations. That kind of conflict can easily spiral into Imperium-wide civil wars such as the Age of Apostasy which was born from conflict between the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/28 16:10:31
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2017/11/28 17:42:57
Subject: Imperial Infighting: How is that handled?
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
Fast-moving, scouts, half-decent in a short-range firefight and likely to get kicked to death by Assault Marines or Stormboyz.
