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Made in de
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator






In my FLGS we recently had a hot discussion about base size. Something about models on 25mm having advantage over 32mm because you can fit more into a ruin, get more into melee etc.

Obviously you would think "take the base the model comes with", but then again as we all know space marines come on 32mm today, while older marines had 25mm bases. I know this is true for other models as well (necron-warriors, terminators etc.).

I actually based all my space marines on 32mm bases just because imho i think it looks cooler. I also for instance based azrael on 32mm, although he came with a 25mm base (i think the model is maybe 20 years old though). Now you could tell me "its unfair, you have about 3,5mm more range with your aura!" - but then again i dont think the chapter master should be standing on 25mm, while newer models from the same army (tactical marines) come on 32mm nowadays.

(Actually I think in a game in which your 300+ points landraider (in a 1k points game) gets blown up before your first turn it will rarely be game breaking if my tacticals will get a model more or less into combat because of base size, but maybe thats just me...)

> My question is if there is any official statement about basesizes at all. I searched the BRB and the FAQ/errata, but the only thing i could find is "if it doesnt have a base, you measure from the hull". <

Thanks ;-)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/02 03:03:43


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Mickmann wrote:
> My question is if there is any official statement about basesizes at all.
<GlibOneWordAnswer>No</GlibOneWordAnswer>

There are no rules regarding base sizes whatsoever, not even a "use what they came with" rule. One of my biggest annoyances with GW over the years (and trust me that list is a mile and a half long, in teeny tiny font to boot) is that they have NEVER tried to standardise base sizes via rules. Even if it had a "it's ok to use the 'wrong' one if you discuss it with friends" rider. The fact they went out of their way to define weapon arcs in previous editions and then never defined what weapons used what arc by default drove me up the fething wall.

I have found the general consensus tends to lie in one of two camps. Oneis that people don't mind if you use the base the model actually came on. That means old Terminators on 25mm bases are fine. Putting new ones on is not fine.

The other is that all models must use the base size of the most recent model, using a proxy to check for range etc if the opponent can't/won't rebase their models.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/02 06:27:42


 
   
Made in de
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator






Ok, thanks. That's what I thought.

But how do official tournaments rule it?

Sureley the wont let you use a model if the base seems too far off, but I downloaded the ITC rules and I even couldnt find anythin regarding basesize in there (also I think I've seen models on slightly larger bases on "this is my tournament army"-pics often enough).

   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






That's like asking how long is a piece of string. Every tournament will be different. You need to ask them individually before every event.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






 BaconCatBug wrote:
That's like asking how long is a piece of string. Every tournament will be different. You need to ask them individually before every event.

Yes, there is no consensus.

That said, if you stick (consistently) to either original base size or current base size then you'll probably be okay.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Even if you mix you will be fine ive ebayed marines a few times and I have some old some new and no one's complained. As long as they were correct at some point.

Smaller is an advantage because you can fit more in a smaller space like a ruin and your less vulnerable to opponents charging. It also allows you to fit more near an objective.

Larger is an advantage because it allows you to be a threat over a wider area as range's are measured from a larger area. It also allows you to occupy and block a wider area with fewer models if your trying to prevent deepstrikers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/02 22:22:30


 
   
Made in ca
Scuttling Genestealer




U02dah4 wrote:
Even if you mix you will be fine ive ebayed marines a few times and I have some old some new and no one's complained. As long as they were correct at some point.

Smaller is an advantage because you can fit more in a smaller space like a ruin and your less vulnerable to opponents charging. It also allows you to fit more near an objective.

Larger is an advantage because it allows you to be a threat over a wider area as range's are measured from a larger area. It also allows you to occupy and block a wider area with fewer models if your trying to prevent deepstrikers


In the end it does not matter because everything equalise itself! Bigger base surely gives you some advantage BUT it also penalise you as well.

For example let say your base is 2" wider than it should. For sure your move is "kind of" boosted by 2" but enemy models all get a +2" to charge you because of that!
Again for shooting your guns have an "extra" 2" of range than what they should normally have but all your enemies gun also have an extra 2" to hit you!

It is that simple, at least to me
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lord_Tyrant wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Even if you mix you will be fine ive ebayed marines a few times and I have some old some new and no one's complained. As long as they were correct at some point.

Smaller is an advantage because you can fit more in a smaller space like a ruin and your less vulnerable to opponents charging. It also allows you to fit more near an objective.

Larger is an advantage because it allows you to be a threat over a wider area as range's are measured from a larger area. It also allows you to occupy and block a wider area with fewer models if your trying to prevent deepstrikers


In the end it does not matter because everything equalise itself! Bigger base surely gives you some advantage BUT it also penalise you as well.

For example let say your base is 2" wider than it should. For sure your move is "kind of" boosted by 2" but enemy models all get a +2" to charge you because of that!
Again for shooting your guns have an "extra" 2" of range than what they should normally have but all your enemies gun also have an extra 2" to hit you!

It is that simple, at least to me


This. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter. Use what it came with. Use what you want. Just don't model for advantage (putting a new term on a 25mm base).
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






Azuza001 wrote:

This. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter. Use what it came with. Use what you want. Just don't model for advantage (putting a new term on a 25mm base).

Isn't that kind of contradictory? You say it doesn't matter, use what you want but then you say don't put a terminator on a 25mm. Does it matter to you or doesn't it?
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

works both ways, the bigger base is better for a unit you wanna daisy chain to defend against alpha strike deep strikers

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It doesn't matter as long as your not doing it for an advantage. Like modeling a ripper swarm onto a dreadnought base so it can lock more units up, that's not cool. Putting terms on a 25mm base because all your terms you already own are older ones on 25mm? Fine by me. Doing it because you want to get as many into close combat as possible and more get in on 25mm? Not cool.

So motive is what matters.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

In general, the advantages and disadvantages are fairly balanced as long as you don't go more than 1 base size smaller or larger.
The main thing is to not model for advantage as, while it isn't TECHNICALLY illegal, it isn't likely to get you repeat games.
And the Rule of Cool is always in affect. If your basing decision is because of something that makes the model look striking or awesome, it's generally acceptable

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have a good example. I got a forgefiend second hand and it didn't come with a base. I thought I was buying the proper base for it and got a 170mm x 105mm base. I based it, put some extra bits on it, and then just today when I fielded it was asked why I put it on a larger base than it came with. I guess it comes with the 120mm x 90mm base? Once I explained myself no one care, not that I think anyone really cared anyways since it was a forgefiend and the bigger base seems to hurt it more than help, my opponent just found it odd. It was just the base I thought it came on. No harm. No foul. No intent for advantage.

If I hadn't already bases it, painted it's base, added some rocks for scenic reasons, and then "flocked" it, I would simply switch to the proper size. But what it's on now is fully finished and it's not worth it to pop it off its base for what turns out to not be an issue since no one in my gaming group cares.
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Lost Carcosa

Really depends on your environment.

No one in my area has any problem with people playing their "old" Space Marines (tacs, devs etc) on their 25's that they came with up until a few years ago.

But show up with "old" terminators or obliterators on 25's and there would be quite a bit of shaming for being "that guy" thrown around.

Point being, its a fairly grey area. Lots of long time players (like myself from the early 90's) have cases full of models I no longer use not only because of base size, but the models themselves are 3/4 and in some cases 1/2 the size of their current figure. Even on the updated base, these "official" models would be so incredibly small that using them would be for no other reason then advantage.

The best thing you can do is confirm with and event organizers what is ok and whats not. Same goes for "friendly" games. Speak with your opponent if you have concerns about your basing or using old models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/07 08:25:38


Standing in the light, I see only darkness.  
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





There are no rules for base sizes? Found a new use for conscripts. 100mm bases!
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

SirWeeble wrote:
There are no rules for base sizes? Found a new use for conscripts. 100mm bases!


Great idea. Good luck setting up two units of 30 models in your deployment area. And the rest of your army.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I agree, there are no “rules” regarding base sizes, more, a “sportsmanship” agreement and “code of conduct”.

“Rule of cool” generally trumps everything, especially when you start working with conversions, however, the general consensus is don’t then try to base for advantage.

This usually comes into effect when you do something like stack a load of rocks and make your mini ½ an inch taller for LoS – but of course, this means you can be seen easier to, but then characters… Another example is drastically upsizing the base size – i.e going from a 33mm to a 60mm for example – or doing something like using a base size that means you will always hold an objective marker even when surrounding in CC, as they can’t get within 3” of it.

Not really ever going to come up much, as, as someone else said, basing can give you an advantage, but it also then usually gives an equal disadvantage as well.

If you look at something and feel “that’s not right”, then, it likely won’t be from a “sportsmanlike” perspective, but if you look at it and it looks “normal” due to the model size or conversion, then people generally won’t bat an eyelid at it.

The only real rule relating to gaming, is that all models should be based appropriately, and if supplied with a base, should be based in order to be used.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





p5freak wrote:
SirWeeble wrote:
There are no rules for base sizes? Found a new use for conscripts. 100mm bases!


Great idea. Good luck setting up two units of 30 models in your deployment area. And the rest of your army.


It makes it interesting when they fight grots that are using Frisbees as bases.
   
 
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