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Can somebody just clarify true line of Sight for me please? I may be suffering hang ups from my WHFB days. Does it mean if any part of model A can see any part of model B, they have LoS? Does it have to be from the "eyes" of model A and if so how does that work for vehicles? Do flags, banners, poles, various sticky out bits count for LoS, or do you need to be able to see the main body of the model?
The rules seem to just say "true line of Sight" and leaves it at that.
Thanking you in advance for educating me!

Yes, toe to top of banner = LOS. Finger to wing = LOS. End of battlecannon to tip of power sword = LOS.

Takes a bit of getting used to if you've played other editions but is a LOT quicker when playing. Very few arguments over LOS - you have it, or you don't.

while johnny is correct RAW, our group uses LOS to the base (or vertical up to the top of the model).

I don't punish people for using cool wings or banners on a model.

Yes, wings and such count. To play it any other way is breaking the rules.

Certainly simpler from a rules point of view. Not great from a modelling point of view though. When any decorative part of the model is detrimental in game it will just get left off.

Yellabelly wrote:
Certainly simpler from a rules point of view. Not great from a modelling point of view though. When any decorative part of the model is detrimental in game it will just get left off.

LOS cuts both ways this edition... if you can see you can generally be seen!

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes, wings and such count. To play it any other way is breaking the rules.

Or, more accurately, to play it any other way is a house rule that should be an agreed upon first .

Yeah it seems crappy at first, but Johnny makes a very good point in that it's made moot by working both ways. Plus, really all it does is force folks to use more LOS blocking terrain, and that's always a good thing.

The one exception to this that we've House-Ruled is in regards to vehicles; you have to draw LOS with at least one weapon on the thing to be able to fire all weapons at a target. We assume crews are experienced and skilled enough to be able to maneuver their vehicle tactically and bring all weapons within sight of their enemy. No one felt good with antennae-to-banner LOS enabling the Demolisher firing through the solid object in front of it at the Tactical Squad on the other side.

Do enemy models still block LOS?
I know they did in some previous editions, but this time I can't find anything on that matter.
Can I 'see' that guy hiding behind that Land Raider?...

HMint wrote:
Do enemy models still block LOS?
I know they did in some previous editions, but this time I can't find anything on that matter.
Can I 'see' that guy hiding behind that Land Raider?...

It's important not to overthink it. The question is literally, can you see them?

If you can see any part of them past or through those intervening models, fire away.

HMint wrote:
Do enemy models still block LOS?
I know they did in some previous editions, but this time I can't find anything on that matter.
Can I 'see' that guy hiding behind that Land Raider?...

If you can't see through the model then yes they block line of sight but so not that you can see through gaps in the model (between the legs, under the hull of a tank, etc. If the land raider is facing towards you you can probably see infantry behind it under the LR - if it's side on then you probably can't.)

The only models you ignore are friendly models from the same unit as the model you're drawing LoS from.

The only real edge case is transparent parts. If I can see an enemy model through a transparent part on a model do I have LoS? For example, if the only part visible of the target model is visible through the canopy of a valkyrie. Fortunately these parts are sufficiently few and small that it's unlikely to come up.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The only real edge case is transparent parts. If I can see an enemy model through a transparent part on a model do I have LoS? For example, if the only part visible of the target model is visible through the canopy of a valkyrie. Fortunately these parts are sufficiently few and small that it's unlikely to come up.

the "Stepping into a new edition" FAQ covers this:

Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to another model?
A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one model to any part of the other.

Even if transparent, it's still interrupting the line.

Does a transparent material interrupt line of sight? You can still see through it and the line of sight you draw is not interrupted. It's an interesting edge case but fortunately not a practical consideration.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Does a transparent material interrupt line of sight? You can still see through it and the line of sight you draw is not interrupted. It's an interesting edge case but fortunately not a practical consideration.

It's gonna stop the shot whether you can see or not, and the LOS is interrupted by it, so practicality and rules wise no, you can't shoot through a canopy.

Now flying stems are a different kettle of Devilfish... you're gonna have to house rule those! I'd be lenient and say ignore them as they're functional not representative, others would go "RAW it's part of the model wahhh", so discuss in advance if in doubt!

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Does a transparent material interrupt line of sight? You can still see through it and the line of sight you draw is not interrupted. It's an interesting edge case but fortunately not a practical consideration.

The FAQ doesn't care about line of sight, it cares if the line is interrupted. A hallway that is separated by a glass window is still interrupted, even if you can see though it.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
and the LOS is interrupted by it, so practicality and rules wise no, you can't shoot through a canopy

No, line of sight is not interrupted by a clear canopy or flying stand because you can see through it. Please explain (without fluff arguments) how a hole in a model is different to a hole filled with a piece of clear plastic when determining if you can see through it.

The only question mark is the FAQ which tells us to draw a line. If the FAQ had specified uninterrupted line of sight (rather than just uninterrupted line) then it would be unambiguous.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
and the LOS is interrupted by it, so practicality and rules wise no, you can't shoot through a canopy

No, line of sight is not interrupted by a clear canopy or flying stand because you can see through it. Please explain (without fluff arguments) how a hole in a model is different to a hole filled with a piece of clear plastic when determining if you can see through it.

The only question mark is the FAQ which tells us to draw a line. If the FAQ had specified uninterrupted line of sight (rather than just uninterrupted line) then it would be unambiguous.

We're talking 'game LOS' not literal 'path of vision'.

The rules argument is from the Stepping Into A New Edition FAQ:

Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to
another model?
A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw
a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one
model to any part of the other

A clear canopy isn't a 'hole in a model'. There's a solid piece of plastic in it which interrupts the line between the models. Ergo no LOS, as you are drawing said LOS through a model and that's not permitted.

(The flying stand is a separate thing I mentioned conversationally, as to all intents and purposes it's not meant to be there. You could house rule it that it doesn't block LOS. But it's house ruling it, as nothing tells you to disregard the stand for LOS purposes and a RAW stickler may insist it blocks LOS also. Don't spend time on this one, please, as you'd have to have a stick thin model for the flying stand to block all LOS anyway...)

Lads if I may contribute; I use a laser pointer for determining Line Of Sight... it's simply easier. cost me about £6 from a gadget store and honestly it stopped all disputes...

-also I love the idea of that demolisher getting its shot off?!?
Rules wise, no one's gonna be comfortable that's a little s***... but from a fluff perspective if that LOS blocker was a building; a demolisher cannon levelling a building and killing some dudes in the blast radius is just cool
can just picture bits of rubble like bricks n shards of glass n stuff destroying some hapless astartes as the walls explode outwards...