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Did anyone else notice that? Don't twin chainswords still give +2 attacks total though?

Q: If a model has more than one ‘pair’ of boneswords, does
it make 1 additional attack with one of those pairs, or 1
additional attack with each of those pairs?
A: 1 additional attack with one of those pairs

*edit*
I'm just glad I built my Warriors with a pair of swords and deathspitters or venom cannons, won't affect me - but seems kinda stupid and wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And apparently the order of operations for x2 weapons is also different for Tyranids?

DC:

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?
A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

Tyranid FAQ:
Q: My Behemoth Hive Tyrant, armed with toxin sacs and the
Reaper of Obliterax, has the Monstrous Hunger Warlord Trait.
If I were to roll a 6 to wound in the Fight phase, would the final
damage be (3 for the bonesword lash + 1 for toxin sacs + 1 for
the Warlord Trait) × 2 for the Reaper of Obliterax’s ability for
a total of 10, or 3 for the bonesword lash × 2 for the Reaper of
Obliterax’s ability + 1 for toxin sacs + 1 for the Warlord Trait
for a total of 8?
A: You multiply the weapon damage for the Reaper of
Obliterax ability, and then add 2 for the combination of
Monstrous Hunger and toxin sacs for a total of 8.

I know one is damage and the other is strength, but why would you treat that differently?

Because you're calculating damage, not modifying a characteristic.

Some effects increase base S stat, so you'd add them before doubling via a wargear effect. For example, a Catachan is S3, +1 for being Catachan, total S4, and his Power Fist doubles that to S8.

With damage it depends on the effects and their descriptions. Toxin Sacs add +1 damage to the result, not +1 to the weapon's base damage stat, so you can't double that with Reaper. That's the crux of the difference.


Tyranids with multiple pairs of the same weapon typically get +1 attack, not +1 per pair, you're right. Chainswords would keep adding but humanoids usually have a natural limit on the number of arms they have (and this weapon options), so it's kinda moot...

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because you're calculating damage, not modifying a characteristic.

Some effects increase base S stat, so you'd add them before doubling via a wargear effect. For example, a Catachan is S3, +1 for being Catachan, total S4, and his Power Fist doubles that to S8.

With damage it depends on the effects and their descriptions. Toxin Sacs add +1 damage to the result, not +1 to the weapon's base damage stat, so you can't double that with Reaper. That's the crux of the difference.


Tyranids with multiple pairs of the same weapon typically get +1 attack, not +1 per pair, you're right. Chainswords would keep adding but humanoids usually have a natural limit on the number of arms they have (and this weapon options), so it's kinda moot...

well, but if you have "a pair of boneswords" you get a bonus attack with that. if you have "a chainsword" you get a bonus attack with that.
but if you have two pairs of boneswords, you still only get one bonus attack. If you have two chainswords, you get two bonus attacks.
the additional "pair of boneswords" costs points, unlike the chainsword. Why would they not give another attack with that? And no, as far as I know Tyranids only have two "pairs" of something. It's basically always "a pair of X" or "something that requires both hands to wield", so mechanics-wise tyranids also usually have just two weapon choices at the same time (Heavy Venom Cannon + a Pair of Monstrous Bone Swords, for example - just like a Marine might have a Plasma Pistol and a Chainsword)

nekooni wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because you're calculating damage, not modifying a characteristic.

Some effects increase base S stat, so you'd add them before doubling via a wargear effect. For example, a Catachan is S3, +1 for being Catachan, total S4, and his Power Fist doubles that to S8.

With damage it depends on the effects and their descriptions. Toxin Sacs add +1 damage to the result, not +1 to the weapon's base damage stat, so you can't double that with Reaper. That's the crux of the difference.


Tyranids with multiple pairs of the same weapon typically get +1 attack, not +1 per pair, you're right. Chainswords would keep adding but humanoids usually have a natural limit on the number of arms they have (and this weapon options), so it's kinda moot...

well, but if you have "a pair of boneswords" you get a bonus attack with that. if you have "a chainsword" you get a bonus attack with that.
but if you have two pairs of boneswords, you still only get one bonus attack. If you have two chainswords, you get two bonus attacks.
the additional "pair of boneswords" costs points, unlike the chainsword. Why would they not give another attack with that? And no, as far as I know Tyranids only have two "pairs" of something. It's basically always "a pair of X" or "something that requires both hands to wield", so mechanics-wise tyranids also usually have just two weapon choices at the same time (Heavy Venom Cannon + a Pair of Monstrous Bone Swords, for example - just like a Marine might have a Plasma Pistol and a Chainsword)

It's been changed somewhat recently. From memory, Monstrous Scything Talons are 14 pts, and Two Pairs of is 15 pts. So it's not always pay twice the price for +1 attack. And as to the why? I think Tyranids tend to have more Attacks baked in, as it were. So maybe purely just balance-related.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

It's been changed somewhat recently. From memory, Monstrous Scything Talons are 14 pts, and Two Pairs of is 15 pts. So it's not always pay twice the price for +1 attack. And as to the why? I think Tyranids tend to have more Attacks baked in, as it were. So maybe purely just balance-related.

Yeah, but that just makes it worse.

a Pair of Monstrous Scything Talons are 15 points, two pairs are 20 points. Having more than one pair gives you an extra attack with the talons.
a Pair of Monstrous Boneswords is 20 points, two pairs are twice that - 40 points. Having one pair gives you an extra attack with the swords, having two pairs does nothing.

Why would anyone buy another pair of swords if it literally does NOTHING? I'd argue 20 points for another attack is already overpriced when compared to the Talons, but basically you trade rerollable 1s for having another slot available for a ranged option, so that kinda balances it out.

Monstrous Scything Talons are S User, -3 AP, Damage 3, rerolling 1's to Hit, +1 Attack if you have more than 1 pair
Monstrous Boneswords are S User, -2 AP, Damage 3, +1 Attack (doesn't matter how many pairs you have)

nekooni wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

It's been changed somewhat recently. From memory, Monstrous Scything Talons are 14 pts, and Two Pairs of is 15 pts. So it's not always pay twice the price for +1 attack. And as to the why? I think Tyranids tend to have more Attacks baked in, as it were. So maybe purely just balance-related.

Yeah, but that just makes it worse.

a Pair of Monstrous Scything Talons are 15 points, two pairs are 20 points. Having more than one pair gives you an extra attack with the talons.
a Pair of Monstrous Boneswords is 20 points, two pairs are twice that - 40 points. Having one pair gives you an extra attack with the swords, having two pairs does nothing.

Why would anyone buy another pair of swords if it literally does NOTHING? I'd argue 20 points for another attack is already overpriced when compared to the Talons, but basically you trade rerollable 1s for having another slot available for a ranged option, so that kinda balances it out.

Monstrous Scything Talons are S User, -3 AP, Damage 3, rerolling 1's to Hit, +1 Attack if you have more than 1 pair
Monstrous Boneswords are S User, -2 AP, Damage 3, +1 Attack (doesn't matter how many pairs you have)

Hey, I don't write em, and anything going beyond interpreting the rules into suggesting changes is for another bit of the forum...

Boneswords and Chainswords have very different rules. It's no surprise one works differently to the other.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Boneswords and Chainswords have very different rules. It's no surprise one works differently to the other.

Until now I assumed that:

MBS: A model armed with monstrous boneswords can make 1 additional attack with them in the Fight phase.
CW: Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.

meant the same if you had two of them: You make an extra attack with each of the weapons.

But you're right, the wording is different and I can see why you'd end up with just one extra attack. Still stupid, but clearly RAW and apparently RAI, too.

It does suck to pay more for the same/less, I agree. I tend not to go double pairs on anything but my Screamer-Killer, luckily, and that's the cheap one!

I was wonder if I spend one attack dice on first pair of boneswords, gain 1 bonus attack... pause, spend last two attack dice for second pair of boneswords and gain 1 bonus attack. It’s spilt the attack dice.

Solidcrash wrote:
I was wonder if I spend one attack dice on first pair of boneswords, gain 1 bonus attack... pause, spend last two attack dice for second pair of boneswords and gain 1 bonus attack. It’s spilt the attack dice.

That doesn't work. You get your base Attacks plus one for 2+ pairs of Boneswords, total.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And apparently the order of operations for x2 weapons is also different for Tyranids?

DC:

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?
A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic.

Tyranid FAQ:
Q: My Behemoth Hive Tyrant, armed with toxin sacs and the
Reaper of Obliterax, has the Monstrous Hunger Warlord Trait.
If I were to roll a 6 to wound in the Fight phase, would the final
damage be (3 for the bonesword lash + 1 for toxin sacs + 1 for
the Warlord Trait) × 2 for the Reaper of Obliterax’s ability for
a total of 10, or 3 for the bonesword lash × 2 for the Reaper of
Obliterax’s ability + 1 for toxin sacs + 1 for the Warlord Trait
for a total of 8?
A: You multiply the weapon damage for the Reaper of
Obliterax ability, and then add 2 for the combination of
Monstrous Hunger and toxin sacs for a total of 8.

I know one is damage and the other is strength, but why would you treat that differently?

Right...
I’ll have to disassemble 4 bones swords warriors.. what about 3 boneswords and a lash whip? For bonus fight phase when warrior die.
And what about pair of bonesword and pair of rending claw?Spend one + one for boneswords attack and 2 for rending claw.

Yeah I have lots of close combat warriors :(

Solidcrash wrote:
Right...
I’ll have to disassemble 4 bones swords warriors.. what about 3 boneswords and a lash whip? For bonus fight phase when warrior die.
And what about pair of bonesword and pair of rending claw?Spend one + one for boneswords attack and 2 for rending claw.

Yeah I have lots of close combat warriors :(

3 Boneswords and Lashwhip wouldn't be two pairs, so no bonus attack. Not worth it. Your last option should work.

Solidcrash wrote:
Right...
I’ll have to disassemble 4 bones swords warriors.. what about 3 boneswords and a lash whip? For bonus fight phase when warrior die.
And what about pair of bonesword and pair of rending claw?Spend one + one for boneswords attack and 2 for rending claw.

Yeah I have lots of close combat warriors :(

What is this 'Spending' you are talking about?
Not even sure I understand what you are asking.

If you have the item, in the codex called 'Boneswords' then you get to make an additional attack with the item called 'Boneswords'
So you get your 3 normal attacks for it being a Tyranid Warrior, and an additional attack cause you have an item called Boneswords.

It doesn't matter what else the warrior is equipped with.
Lashwhip and Bonesword, and Boneswords. You get 3 attacks and an additional 1 with the Boneswords.
Rending Claws and Boneswords. You get 3 attacks, and an additional 1 with the Boneswords.


And you don't get an additional fight phase with lashwhips.

Korbee11 wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
Right...
I’ll have to disassemble 4 bones swords warriors.. what about 3 boneswords and a lash whip? For bonus fight phase when warrior die.
And what about pair of bonesword and pair of rending claw?Spend one + one for boneswords attack and 2 for rending claw.

Yeah I have lots of close combat warriors :(

What is this 'Spending' you are talking about?
Not even sure I understand what you are asking.

If you have the item, in the codex called 'Boneswords' then you get to make an additional attack with the item called 'Boneswords'
So you get your 3 normal attacks for it being a Tyranid Warrior, and an additional attack cause you have an item called Boneswords.

It doesn't matter what else the warrior is equipped with.
Lashwhip and Bonesword, and Boneswords. You get 3 attacks and an additional 1 with the Boneswords.
Rending Claws and Boneswords. You get 3 attacks, and an additional 1 with the Boneswords.


And you don't get an additional fight phase with lashwhips.

Spending attack dices - use number of dices of attack roll, for spilt up dices for each weapons. ( don’t know what special name for this one )
Bonesword and Lash whip - if bearer die before it attack, leave the warrior there to fight until end of fight phase. Then warrior die.

Thank everyone. I’ll keep bonesword and rending claw and might keep bonesword and lashwhip... maybe change lash whips with spinefist? Who know. Shame to see cool looking two pair of bonesword had to die.

Lashwhips just let you swing after you die. It is an additional fight phase, but only for that model when he dies.

It is not an extra Fight Phase.

It's an 'I get to attack even if I die' thing.

Lashwhips:
If the bearer is slain in the Fight phase BEFORE it has made its attacks, leave it where it is When its unit is chosen to fight in THAT PHASE, the bearer can do so as normal before being removed from the battlefield.

I do not see ANYWHERE in that description that says 'have another fight phase'

I see it saying that if a model with a lashwhip has not been chosen to fight, and is slain in a fight, you still get to attack as per the normal fight phase rules.
I also see it saying if a model with a lashwhip has been chosen to fight already, and dies in the same fight phase, you don't get to make extra attacks with him.

Please. Show me where I am wrong.

No your are not wrong, it is correct.

I'm so confused as to why it matters that a Trygon has 3 pairs of MST based on all the FAQs and rulings.

 Marmatag wrote:
I'm so confused as to why it matters that a Trygon has 3 pairs of MST based on all the FAQs and rulings.

Read what it was in response to.

He wondered about splitting the attacks
ie: I have 2 pairs of Boneswords. If I used 1 attack with 1 set of boneswords, I get a bonus attack. Then use the second attack with the second set of bonswords, and get another bonus attack.

It is the same process as the argument with the Trygon, that has been answered already. Just instead of MST's, it is Boneswords.


I am confused as to why there is a thread, in YMDC, based on Boneswords only giving you +1 attack given that the FAQ is pretty darn clear.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
Right...
I’ll have to disassemble 4 bones swords warriors.. what about 3 boneswords and a lash whip? For bonus fight phase when warrior die.
And what about pair of bonesword and pair of rending claw?Spend one + one for boneswords attack and 2 for rending claw.

Yeah I have lots of close combat warriors :(

3 Boneswords and Lashwhip wouldn't be two pairs, so no bonus attack. Not worth it. Your last option should work.

It's an extra attack for one pair, not two, so lash whip + bones word and pair of boneswords gives the extra attack.

Drager wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
Right...
I’ll have to disassemble 4 bones swords warriors.. what about 3 boneswords and a lash whip? For bonus fight phase when warrior die.
And what about pair of bonesword and pair of rending claw?Spend one + one for boneswords attack and 2 for rending claw.

Yeah I have lots of close combat warriors :(

3 Boneswords and Lashwhip wouldn't be two pairs, so no bonus attack. Not worth it. Your last option should work.

It's an extra attack for one pair, not two, so lash whip + bones word and pair of boneswords gives the extra attack.

Thanks for the correction! Was mixing my rules up.