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2017/12/07 17:49:21
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I ve seen many battle reports on youtube were Space marine players get to roll a 5+ every time they use a CP to get it back... i thought only Astra millitarum had this rule? am i missing anything?
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2017/12/07 17:51:33
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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Ultramarines warlord trait.
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2017/12/07 18:33:45
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ty very much sir... i was always using iron resolve and nevernoticed the Ultramarines one 
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2017/12/07 18:34:51
Subject: Re:When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Also BA with a relic.
AM has two options, one is a warlord trait roll a 5+ when you spend a CP, you get it back. The other is a relic where you get a CP on a 5+ when your opponent spends a CP.
Combine both and you have a good chance getting additional CPs. Two rolls when you spend a CP, and one roll when your opponent spends a CP.
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2017/12/07 18:40:12
Subject: Re:When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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p5freak wrote:Also BA with a relic.
AM has two options, one is a warlord trait roll a 5+ when you spend a CP, you get it back. The other is a relic where you get a CP on a 5+ when your opponent spends a CP.
Combine both and you have a good chance getting additional CPs. Two rolls when you spend a CP, and one roll when your opponent spends a CP.
One thing I noticed is the AM WL Trait is 5+ per CP spent, the Kurov's Aquila relic is 5+ per *Stratagem played by opponent* to gain 1 CP. Not 5+ per CP your opponent spends. Meant my Guard opponent actually started to run out last game and couldn't farm my CPs quite as well!
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/07 18:41:25
 Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2017/12/08 18:43:19
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Question on the Ultramarine one, if i use a stratagem that cost 3 cp, do I get one roll or 3?
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 10000+
 10000+
 8500+
 3000+
 8000+
 3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
DakkaSwap Successful Transactions: cormadepanda, pretre x3, LibertineIX, Lbcwanabe, privateer4hire, Cruentus (swap), Scatwick2 (swap), boneheadracer (swap), quickfuze (swap), Captain Brown (swap) x2, luftsb, Forgottonson, WillvonDoom, bocatt (swap)
*I'm on Bartertown as Dynas |
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2017/12/08 18:58:58
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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 Dynas wrote:Question on the Ultramarine one, if i use a stratagem that cost 3 cp, do I get one roll or 3?
It tells you to roll per CP.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2017/12/08 22:28:25
Subject: Re:When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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I noticed that my combo doesnt work. You can only use veritas vitae when your warlord is BA. I dont know if its the same for AM, i dont have the codex. If its the same then its only the AM warlord trait grand strategist and kurovs aquila to get additional CPs.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/08 22:29:08
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2017/12/09 13:34:25
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Norn Queen
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Dynas wrote:Question on the Ultramarine one, if i use a stratagem that cost 3 cp, do I get one roll or 3?
You get 3, one per CP.
p5freak wrote:I noticed that my combo doesnt work. You can only use veritas vitae when your warlord is BA. I dont know if its the same for AM, i dont have the codex. If its the same then its only the AM warlord trait grand strategist and kurovs aquila to get additional CPs.
You can use a stratagem to unlock relics for a 2nd faction.
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2017/12/09 13:45:49
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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No. The BA codex says i can only use a relic when my warlord is BA. I know about the DG FAQ, and i dont think it applies here. I dont know what the codexes say, though. I dont own them.
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2017/12/09 14:02:25
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Norn Queen
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p5freak wrote: No. The BA codex says i can only use a relic when my warlord is BA. I know about the DG FAQ, and i dont think it applies here. I dont know what the codexes say, though. I dont own them.
Yeh, so have a detachment of BA with Warlord and a detachment of Guard. Take the free BA relic, use the guard stratagem to get a relic for a guardsman. You don't need the FAQ because it's not changing the RaW
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/09 14:03:17
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2017/12/09 16:59:50
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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The Grand stratagist is a warlord trait and so requires an AM warlord
The veritas vtae can be taken with the strategem there is no requirement for there to be a BA Warlord
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2017/12/10 01:06:03
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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U02dah4 wrote:
The veritas vtae can be taken with the strategem there is no requirement for there to be a BA Warlord
Yes there is. You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA. Its written on top of the relics list in the codex.
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2017/12/10 01:13:03
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Norn Queen
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p5freak wrote:U02dah4 wrote: The veritas vtae can be taken with the strategem there is no requirement for there to be a BA Warlord
Yes there is. You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA. Its written on top of the relics list in the codex.
That isn't what the codex says. Not even close. It's another example of you giving incorrect information deliberately. All it says is "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER." If you have a detachment of AM, then a detachment of BA with a BA warlord, you can take a relic for your BA warlord, then use the AM stratagem to give a relic to an AM character. Likewise, If you have a detachment of BA, then a detachment of AM with a AM warlord, you can take a relic for your AM warlord, then use the BA stratagem to give a relic to an BA character.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 01:13:31
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2017/12/10 07:37:18
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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 BaconCatBug wrote:p5freak wrote:U02dah4 wrote:
The veritas vtae can be taken with the strategem there is no requirement for there to be a BA Warlord
Yes there is. You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA. Its written on top of the relics list in the codex.
That isn't what the codex says. Not even close. It's another example of you giving incorrect information deliberately.
All it says is "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER." If you have a detachment of AM, then a detachment of BA with a BA warlord, you can take a relic for your BA warlord, then use the AM stratagem to give a relic to an AM character.
My combo still doesnt work. The AM warlord trait grand strategist requires an AM warlord. You cant have two warlords in your army.
BaconCatBug wrote:
Likewise, If you have a detachment of BA, then a detachment of AM with a AM warlord, you can take a relic for your AM warlord, then use the BA stratagem to give a relic to an BA character.
I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/12/10 08:03:19
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2017/12/11 00:34:59
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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p5freak wrote: BaconCatBug wrote:p5freak wrote:U02dah4 wrote:
The veritas vtae can be taken with the strategem there is no requirement for there to be a BA Warlord
Yes there is. You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA. Its written on top of the relics list in the codex.
That isn't what the codex says. Not even close. It's another example of you giving incorrect information deliberately.
All it says is "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER." If you have a detachment of AM, then a detachment of BA with a BA warlord, you can take a relic for your BA warlord, then use the AM stratagem to give a relic to an AM character.
My combo still doesnt work. The AM warlord trait grand strategist requires an AM warlord. You cant have two warlords in your army.
BaconCatBug wrote:
Likewise, If you have a detachment of BA, then a detachment of AM with a AM warlord, you can take a relic for your AM warlord, then use the BA stratagem to give a relic to an BA character.
I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
But you can. That's exactly what the FAQ is telling us.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/11 00:35:12
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2017/12/11 02:17:15
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Norn Queen
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p5freak wrote:I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
The rule doesn't say that, I already showed this. But of course you know that and just post incorrect information anyway.
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2017/12/11 08:26:19
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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BaconCatBug wrote:p5freak wrote:I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
The rule doesn't say that, I already showed this. But of course you know that and just post incorrect information anyway.
I dont get it. How is "You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA" different from "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER" ?
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2017/12/11 11:46:41
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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The first is restrictive and prohibits a relic coming from elsewhere
The second is permissive and provides no restrictions on relics coming from elsewhere.
Saying you can do something is different to saying you cant they are 100% different statements
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/11 11:48:01
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2017/12/11 12:03:12
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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p5freak wrote: BaconCatBug wrote:p5freak wrote:I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
The rule doesn't say that, I already showed this. But of course you know that and just post incorrect information anyway.
I dont get it. How is "You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA" different from "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER" ?
If BCB was focusing less on being rude he might explain he's referring to an entry in the Death Guard FAQ. An answer in that opens up all the "extra Relic" Stratagems in mixed armies, so both factions can take Relics. The literal wording in the book is as you say but seems they intend it to be played differently. Give it a look - should help clarify.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2017/12/11 15:38:39
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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 JohnnyHell wrote:p5freak wrote: BaconCatBug wrote:p5freak wrote:I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
The rule doesn't say that, I already showed this. But of course you know that and just post incorrect information anyway.
I dont get it. How is "You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA" different from "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER" ?
If BCB was focusing less on being rude he might explain he's referring to an entry in the Death Guard FAQ. An answer in that opens up all the "extra Relic" Stratagems in mixed armies, so both factions can take Relics. The literal wording in the book is as you say but seems they intend it to be played differently. Give it a look - should help clarify.
p5freak is aware of the DG faq - even said this in a post ITT. p5freak claims it doesn't apply even though it definitely does, considering the FAQ answer is general and not specific to only death guard. What p5freak is ignoring is that while the codex tells you that you get a free relic if you have a BA warlord (and this relic must be a BA one), there is a stratagem that allows you to purchase relics for CP, and this is what the FAQ is referring to. The stratagem doesn't require a BA warlord, just a BA detachment.
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2017/12/11 16:13:39
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Jacksmiles wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:p5freak wrote: BaconCatBug wrote:p5freak wrote:I dont think you can use the BA stratagem to get an additional relic, and ignore the rule that your warlord must be BA to get a relic of baal. Which is exactly what i said in the first place.
The rule doesn't say that, I already showed this. But of course you know that and just post incorrect information anyway.
I dont get it. How is "You can only use a relic of baal if your warlord is BA" different from "If your army is led by a BLOOD ANGELS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following items to a BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER" ?
If BCB was focusing less on being rude he might explain he's referring to an entry in the Death Guard FAQ. An answer in that opens up all the "extra Relic" Stratagems in mixed armies, so both factions can take Relics. The literal wording in the book is as you say but seems they intend it to be played differently. Give it a look - should help clarify.
p5freak is aware of the DG faq - even said this in a post ITT. p5freak claims it doesn't apply even though it definitely does, considering the FAQ answer is general and not specific to only death guard. What p5freak is ignoring is that while the codex tells you that you get a free relic if you have a BA warlord (and this relic must be a BA one), there is a stratagem that allows you to purchase relics for CP, and this is what the FAQ is referring to. The stratagem doesn't require a BA warlord, just a BA detachment.
Ah my bad - still, a thread full of attacks and snark isn't much use for someone dipping in. Clarification is always good. If p5freak disagrees I can see why, as the Codex rules do seem restrictive, but the FAQ opens that up. Maybe someone else explaining to him will help!
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2017/12/11 22:08:33
Subject: Re:When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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I read the DG codex, it says the same as the BA codex about warlord and relics. After giving it some more thought it could be interpreted that a warlord is not actually needed to get a relic. The DG FAQ supports this. I'm convinced now that its legal to use the stratagem to get a relic for a BA character, even if my warlord is not BA.
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2017/12/12 19:38:22
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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On the same note. If you use the Stratagem that allows you to buy extra relics for CP, can you then use the Ultramarine trait to try and get those back or no?
Since its pregame it seems kind of gamey, but just checking.
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10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
DakkaSwap Successful Transactions: cormadepanda, pretre x3, LibertineIX, Lbcwanabe, privateer4hire, Cruentus (swap), Scatwick2 (swap), boneheadracer (swap), quickfuze (swap), Captain Brown (swap) x2, luftsb, Forgottonson, WillvonDoom, bocatt (swap)
*I'm on Bartertown as Dynas |
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2017/12/12 19:44:28
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Norn Queen
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Dynas wrote:On the same note. If you use the Stratagem that allows you to buy extra relics for CP, can you then use the Ultramarine trait to try and get those back or no?
Since its pregame it seems kind of gamey, but just checking.
"Whilst your Warlord is alive".
Your warlord is neither alive nor dead pre-game, thus it fails the "Is the warlord alive?" check.
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2017/12/12 19:57:14
Subject: Re:When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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p5freak wrote:I read the DG codex, it says the same as the BA codex about warlord and relics. After giving it some more thought it could be interpreted that a warlord is not actually needed to get a relic. The DG FAQ supports this. I'm convinced now that its legal to use the stratagem to get a relic for a BA character, even if my warlord is not BA.
Basically the stuff you're worried about tells you that you get a BA relic for free if your warlord is BA. You can't get a free BA relic if your WL isn't a BA, but you'll get a free one from whatever faction your warlord is from. And if you managed to get permission to use BA stratagems, you can use the one that exchanges a CP for a Relic (or the 3 for 2 one, obviously).
If you had 3 Detachments of different Codex armies you could invest 9 CP and end up with 3+2+2 relics.
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2017/12/12 20:14:37
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Unless your warlord is an Inquisitor. Then you get no free relics at all and cry.
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2017/12/12 20:52:37
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:Unless your warlord is an Inquisitor. Then you get no free relics at all and cry.
If your warlord is an Inquisitor the lack of a relic is the least of your worries.
I had a pretty fun and effective Inquisition list in 7th. Had.
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2017/12/14 14:46:18
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BaconCatBug wrote: Dynas wrote:On the same note. If you use the Stratagem that allows you to buy extra relics for CP, can you then use the Ultramarine trait to try and get those back or no?
Since its pregame it seems kind of gamey, but just checking.
"Whilst your Warlord is alive".
Your warlord is neither alive nor dead pre-game, thus it fails the "Is the warlord alive?" check.
Not true. You have your army list which lists who you have, and none of those have taken wounds yet, so the Warlord would be alive.
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2017/12/14 15:11:23
Subject: When you get to roll on a 5+ to get you spent CP back?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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 doctortom wrote: BaconCatBug wrote: Dynas wrote:On the same note. If you use the Stratagem that allows you to buy extra relics for CP, can you then use the Ultramarine trait to try and get those back or no?
Since its pregame it seems kind of gamey, but just checking.
"Whilst your Warlord is alive".
Your warlord is neither alive nor dead pre-game, thus it fails the "Is the warlord alive?" check.
Not true. You have your army list which lists who you have, and none of those have taken wounds yet, so the Warlord would be alive.
You technically don't get your Warlord Trait until just before you deploy, and judging by the Psychic Power section of the core rules (since the term isn't defined anywhere else) "before the battle" also occurs at the same time...so RaW you and your opponent would have roll off and the winner would decide if you use the Stratagem before your Warlord Trait is chosen or not.
That is probably a whole other can of messy worms.
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