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Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




I've never seen a list that uses them, not that I've looked all that hard, and honestly at first glance they didn't seem that good to me as they can't get too much more on them than what they come with. But that Skyspear ML is pretty awesome. Hit fliers at +1, doesn't take a penalty for shooting at non fliers, and best of all rerolls misses. 60" range too which is nice. Considering all the armies that seem to be including some pretty gnarly fliers(looking at you Hemlocks!), it's a pretty solid unit for less than 100pts, even if you get the stormbolter and an HK Missile on it. Also, it's one of the few Marine vehicles that has T8, which is also nice. Anyways, I think I've going to field some, many in fact.

"The Ultramarines are here to save us!"

"Those are the Sons of Orar."

"O R they!" 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

They aren't spectacular. They fire one long range, rerolling Lascannon shot a turn. But they are cheap and durable. I am going to try finding room for one.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
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Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator





Illinois

I usually have the points to field one, and I'm looking to start running one or two more if I can get them cheaply. The T8 isn't that helpful since the best use I've found for them is to use the long range on the skyspear as a long range anti-tank weapon. For what they cost and what they give, they're a decent use of the points if you have the heavy support slots open.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

The problem is that a hunter just doesn't do very much damage. A shot at a hard to hit flyer with a 3+ save will do 1.72 wounds, so it will take 6 shots to kill a 10-wound flyer. You may as well not bother against a stormraven.

On the other hand there aren't many great options for killing hard to hit planes. Plasma tends to be really good for marines, but isn't useful against hard to hit stuff at all. That means you'll tend to be falling back on things with lascannons on.

Point for point, a hunter does comparable damage to most of its competitors. Here are some calculations I've just done on average damage/turn divided by points cost, against a flyer with T7, 3+ save and -1 to hit:

Hunter: 0.019 damage/point
Stalker: 0.017
Quad Las Predator: 0.020
Quad Las Mortis contemptor: 0.025
Quad Las Mortis Dreadnought: 0.022
Stormhawk (las talon and skyhammer) 0.023
Deredeo (stationary with anvillus and hvy bolters) 0.026
Sicaran with las sponsons 0.025

Overall I think the hunter stands up relatively well. Other things do more damage but the hunter's range and durability means it will tend to get more shots away.

Contemptor Mortis dreadnoughts come out of this looking pretty good. They are a really solid "anti-anything" choice, I find.

Similarly, the Relic Sicaran is a scary opponent for a plane. It averages 5.45 damage and can do that while moving, at good range. This is a very decent all-round vehicle. The wording that it ignores save modifiers against targets that can fly is interesting because it means it would also ignore the Alaitoc rule.

The Deredeo does the highest damage per point, but only while stationary and with a 36" range. That makes it weaker than it looks. On the other hand it does get CTs, which can certainly help quite a lot. It's a decent option but for me the -1 save modifier is a problem

Stormhawk interceptors are actually the best option outside of Forgeworld. As hard to hit flyers themselves they are pretty difficult to get rid of, especially with their rerolls to saving throws of a 1.

The hunter looks decent as a cheap heavy support choice. It does its job relatively well and can be sat on a home objective. A vehicle that cheap and that tough is difficult not to like, and will give your opponent headaches about what to shoot at.
   
Made in be
Regular Dakkanaut




It's a great vehicle if you don't want to think about it, it's not efficient in a gunline. But as a solo fire support it handle itself well.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

A hunter sucks. 60" range is nice, but it needs LOS. You will only be able to shoot a flyer once, then its gone, unless you play without terrain.

Mandragola wrote:

On the other hand there aren't many great options for killing hard to hit planes. Plasma tends to be really good for marines, but isn't useful against hard to hit stuff at all. That means you'll tend to be falling back on things with lascannons on.

Point for point, a hunter does comparable damage to most of its competitors. Here are some calculations I've just done on average damage/turn divided by points cost, against a flyer with T7, 3+ save and -1 to hit:

Hunter: 0.019 damage/point
Stalker: 0.017
Quad Las Predator: 0.020
Quad Las Mortis contemptor: 0.025
Quad Las Mortis Dreadnought: 0.022
Stormhawk (las talon and skyhammer) 0.023
Deredeo (stationary with anvillus and hvy bolters) 0.026
Sicaran with las sponsons 0.025


Your list is incomplete. The xiphon interceptor is the best anti air unit. Its 240 pts. has 2 twin lascannons, and a rocket pod. It has an ability like POTMS, and gets +1 to hit enemy units with the FLY keyword. Its even better against units with the FLY keyword, which are not hard to hit, like eldar tanks, jetbikes, tyranids or daemons with wings, hitting them on 2+.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

p5freak wrote:
A hunter sucks. 60" range is nice, but it needs LOS. You will only be able to shoot a flyer once, then its gone, unless you play without terrain.



Your list is incomplete. The xiphon interceptor is the best anti air unit. Its 240 pts. has 2 twin lascannons, and a rocket pod. It has an ability like POTMS, and gets +1 to hit enemy units with the FLY keyword. Its even better against units with the FLY keyword, which are not hard to hit, like eldar tanks, jetbikes, tyranids or daemons with wings, hitting them on 2+.

Yeah the list was never meant to be complete, but the xiphon does deserve a mention. It averages 6.52 wounds against a typical flyer, and is highly efficient with 0.027 wounds caused per point spent. It's a great AA platform. It is also the most expensive of these options, without being particularly tough. You can almost get three hunters for the price of a xiphon - but the xiphon does more damage than three hunters.

I've got a Xiphon and it does tend to perform very well. It does die if the opponent really wants to kill it, but it punches very hard. That said, the series of nerfs that flyers have received makes me a bit wary of fielding any of them now in a competitive list, however good they are.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Mandragola wrote:


Hunter: 0.019 damage/point
Stalker: 0.017
Quad Las Predator: 0.020

Nevermind the rest. This highlights the problem. You can take a vehicle which isn't specialised for anti air, and have more efficient anti air than the hunter and stalker. And that's without even looking at forge World.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Zustiur wrote:
Mandragola wrote:


Hunter: 0.019 damage/point
Stalker: 0.017
Quad Las Predator: 0.020

Nevermind the rest. This highlights the problem. You can take a vehicle which isn't specialised for anti air, and have more efficient anti air than the hunter and stalker. And that's without even looking at forge World.


Don’t get caught up looking at single stats. While the pred might be slightly better from the dam/point metric, it’s also a point lower in T the the hunter. You can get two Hunters for the cost of one pred, which can be used to pad out detachments for CP, or just twice the wounds sitting on the table.

The choice of targets for this particular metric also favors the big guns, if you are looking at the stalker. If you want to sweep clouds of jetbikes and other light flyers off the table, it’s going to start looking a lot better.

Mathhammer is a good guide, but can only give you a snapshot of a larger picture.

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I was just reading the entries and point costs for the Stalker and Hunter in the Dark Angels book, and I have to say that the Hunter does look like a viable alternative to the Twin Las Razorback. You only get one shot, but it's almost guaranteed to hit. The higher T value and number of wounds means the vehicle will hang around a little longer as well. I don't think it's completely superior, and two of them are definitely not necessarily better than a Las Pred, but they are a viable alternative since they are dirt cheap. Personally if I want a cheap alternative to a Las Pred in my Dark Angels army I'll just take a Dreadnought with ML and Twin Las. If it sits still it can benefit from Grim Resolve to reroll 1's to hit, or I can park it next to Azrael to reroll everything (too bad it doesn't still get the 4++ from Az ).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

A twin lascan pred is 130, should score 1 hit as well, and three of them can use the killshot stratagem. T8 and +1 to hit FLY is nice on the hunter, but i'm still not convinced.
   
Made in be
Regular Dakkanaut




Well let's make this a simple case.

1rst you got the razor double las for 120 pts. e7 2 shots.

2nd you got hunter 90 1 reroll las for 90 pts e8 +1 to fly.

3rd you got pred double lascan + sponson = 190 pts e7 4 shots

So safe backliner with bonus vs flying = hunter

Huge firepower but at high cost and all eggs in one basket

And middle ground = razorback.



   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I think vindicators kind of need to be poked at too. You’ve got the t8 and now they come in at 127 points - just over the cost of a twin las razorback. D6 shots at units of 5 or more makes them really great vs units of tough, multi-wound models - which do exist.

I’m not sure they are all that great, and it’s irritating how much better a Leman Russ Demolisher is, but they can’t be ignored.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Vindicators can at least use the linebreaker bombardment.
   
 
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